If a second American Revolution where to happen....

[the clockmaker]

Herp

Derp

snip

Qwerp

I never said it's a failed state, or if I did, I take that back. But I think it's a failed democracy and political system. Well, failed or failing. Minor difference, but still. And regarding your list of what constitutes a failed state, imo, the US fails on nr 2 and 3. The people in congress are clowns, many or most running the errands of corporate/wealthy interests. Not to mention bossing around the rest of the world, for example, moving in on Iraq based on outright lies and without sanction from the UN. That's downright insane. Then of course we have the pathetically low participation in public elections, people KNOW that whatever they do doesn't really matter. I could go on...

Then there's nr 3. I consider things like health care and education to be public services. That shit works just fine IF YOU HAVE MONEY. Millions of people don't, and millions more have to work their backs off to afford it, and still they risk getting fucked over by damn-near criminal conditions placed on them from the insurance companies. And when someone finally tries to fix this, it creates an uproar and the most immature and pathetic reactions from the critics. That links back to congress and special interests.

And to clarify, what I mean by education is higher education. Elementary school/high school is enough to land a job as a desk clerk maybe, (unless you open your own business, which is about the hardest thing you can do even with good education). And to many the choice is either a job like that or unemployment(if they're not unlucky), not because they didn't have the will or the ambition or the capacity to do something more, but because they never got the chance. They've been failed, and nobody even tried to help them by giving them the tools they have the same right to as anyone else. Because they couldn't afford it. That's what determines your value as a citizen in the USA; how thick your wallet is.

Like I said, the USA is amazing at many things. Americans I've talked to and met in RL are almost always nice and fun, I'd love to (and will) visit the US. No doubt. It's a country the size of a continent and only 100 million fewer people than the entire EU. That's pretty cool. But I'm extremely happy that I wasn't born there. My life would have been horrible growing up and I wouldn't be in college now. Hell, who knows if my family and I would even have our health. My single mother sure as hell wouldn't have been able to afford health insurance...

So, you are abandoning your contention that the US is one of the worst democracies then? I mean, I see nothing in there that links back to my post at all. I even compared them to other established democracies

On top that, for number 2 you seem to be misunderstanding what the execution of legtimate authority is. The moral uprightness of the decision is not what is in question, only that the national command authority makes a decision and that decision and that decision is then implimented.

In addition, the national command authority needs to have been elected in a free and open contest. and before you jump down my throat on that a free and open contest consists really of two basic rules 1-people vote as they want and 2-the person with the most votes wins (or the population center wieghted equivalent of that). Just because people don't vote how you would like them too, does not invalidate the system.

With regards to 3- I do consider basic health care to be a right, I will side with you on that one. I mean, I am Australian right wing, not US right wing. However, I do not consider university education to be a right, mostly because it skews against tradesmen, laborers and other people whose careers, by choice or otherwise, do not require them to attend university.

Again, and I really can't stress this enough, all you are putting forward is rhetoric and it isn't really bringing anything to the table.

 

[alexkeller]

Another American Revolution would not happen. The chances of one happening are amazingly tiny. I do believe that America is going to eventually end up like Greece.

What do you mean?

 

[senordesol]

Sorry, but the idea of another revolution in the U.S. makes no sense at all. The only revolutions that actually happen are against oppressive, corrupt, authoritarian regimes.

DUH, HELLOOOOOO?! And what do you call the US?

Um...NOT that?

There are tedious laws, and no shortage of political corruption, but in general you can walk down the street, go about your business, make money, and associate with whomever you like without trouble.

Oh really? In which state?

Which State do you think it is? I've only been to a few myself (California, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Nevada, Massachusetts, Florida, New Jersey, New York, Arizona, New Mexico, Maryland, and Virginia) but what I said in the above was true for all of them.

Just because my country doesn't offer some of the same social services as yours does not make it a 'Corrupt, authoritarian' regime.

So I get it, you don't like my country. But you don't see me shitting on yours, so maybe turn down the hyperbole some. Maybe instead of vilifying us, you could appreciate that we have greater difficulty with some social challenges than we do with others. Instead of haranguing us for not being a mirror image of your culture, you can just accept the fact that our philosophy differs and move on.

The standard of living for us 320M people living here is pretty damn good, thank you. Could it stand to be improved? No fucking shit, but that hardly means that we're beyond hope or are even doing that bad. Our relationship and access to our government is also pretty damn good. You can contact your state senator, national senator, congress person, and even president at the click of a mouse. Could we do with some more representation - or even another party to represent us? I'm all for it.

So if you're quite happy with your socialist utopia, then I'm happy for you. Now excuse us while we work on carving ourselves a little utopia of our own.

 

[CrazyDave DC]

Sorry, but the idea of another revolution in the U.S. makes no sense at all. The only revolutions that actually happen are against oppressive, corrupt, authoritarian regimes.

DUH, HELLOOOOOO?! And what do you call the US?

I call the U.S. a democracy? What do you call it?

A deterring example to the rest of the world and an example of why it takes more than having elections and a constitution to be a functional democracy.

"Deterring example" or no, the U.S. is still, by definition, a democracy: a system of government whereby all members of a society are represented by elected officials. There's much more to it, of course, but the fact remains that the American public have the right to elect someone else if an elected official oversteps his/her bounds.

The U.S. is not some failed state where elections and a constitution are merely a formality, rather there's is a culture in which elections and the constitution are most highly cherished. Despite that, they have presidential system, which makes it quite difficult to pass bills without them being shot down. What is more, the current situation in Washington is one of political deadlock. So yeah, I'll be the first to step up on my soapbox and say how idiotic the American government is organized, but that doesn't mean its not functional.

P.S. I'm from Canada and I like our parliamentary system a lot more than the U.S. despite how much I disagree with my Prime Minister.

"all members of society"? I suppose anyone not rich enough isn't really part of society, so you're right about that...

"Have the right to elect someone else"? Elect a new name you mean. Besides some minor differences, they're all the same. Their mandate rarely extends further than whatever interests are funding their campaigns and hosting their "fund raisers".

Not a failed state? I consider a democracy where 30-50 million (I don't remember exactly) people don't have the right to basic health care unless they're literally on the brink of death, to be a seriously failed system. But hey, the insurance companies are people too right?

The current situation in Washington is in itself all you really need to prove the point that something is seriously fucked up. The supposedly representatives of the people sit around and throw cheap insults at each other and refuse to behave like adults. Those are the people supposedly running the country, a bunch of overpaid puppets dancing whichever way the corporate interests tell them to. The few sane people in there are fighting an uphill battle of epic proportions.

I call that a god damn failed system.

Hey man, no one's saying that Washington isn't riddled with problems, but the point I'm trying to make here is there's a difference between mostly incompetent and absolute dictatorship. Yes, one gets the feeling that Democrats and Republicans are both incapable of serving the citizens they represent, but the bottom line is that there is a government in place that largely respects people's freedoms. Americans have the freedom to speak how they will, own guns (not something I'm crazy about), vote in elections, choose their own religions, and have the right to a fair trial.

Is the American system perfect? No. Is it adequate? Probably not. From your perspective, and from mine as well, there are a lot of things that make the U.S. an intolerable place to live: 1) Terrible health care, 2) Rampant Income Inequality/Poverty, 3) Unacceptable amount of Social Conservatives, etc. The list goes on. People are getting fed up, and they are expressing their displeasure through protests, elections, campaign donations, or even starting up their own third party groups like Americans Elect.

But here's the kicker, these are almost always peaceful acts and are in no way threats to the current government's existence. While people can still express themselves and have a personal stake in their democracy, there will be no revolution. As I've said before, revolutions only happen in completely undemocratic societies wherein peaceful protest has been stamped out, only to be replaced by violence from the citizenry.

Syria is a prime example of this. No matter how messed up the U.S. gets, I can pretty much guarantee you that they will never get to where Syria is at now, barring some kind of 'nuclear incident.'