If a second American Revolution where to happen....

[senordesol]

It would depend on what the war was about. The most likely chain of events (and please note 'most likely' =/= 'probable') in this case would be the gradual erosion of individual rights to a point where the Bill or Rights would be pretty much nullified. Even then there would have to be some great inciting incident which would convince a vast portion of America at-large to be convinced that there was no way to resolve their grievances peacefully.

After that point...well it gets hazy. What is the ultimate goal of this civil war? I mean push-come-to-shove, going after the main perpetrators of the excesses shouldn't be too hard, which means that a new government could be elected to replace the old and rescind the offending laws.

With regard to what the military would do, chances are unless the rebel cause is demonstrably unhinged, they wouldn't do much of anything. Even so, they aren't going to nuke or bomb or shell cities where their wives, girlfriends, moms, dads, sons, and little sisters live, and unless the rebels are dumb enough to wear uniforms determining an 'insurgent' will be just as difficult (if not likely more so) here as it is in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US is simply too big to be occupied in every major city, not to mention the fact that there would be no true 'battles', but just sporadic skirmishes that would leave a lot of dead and wounded, but would be over long before any support could get there. It would simply be a long war of attrition and sabotage.

If that were to happen, commerce would freeze, much of the nation would grind to a halt and I'm willing to be those same soldiers would start to question if they're backing the right horse.

In general though...I just don't see it happening. We're either voting for a new President or a new Congress every two years, if a truly draconian law were to come into effect (under normal circumstances) it would likely be repealed/found unconstitutional LONG before anyone in significant numbers felt the need to take lives over it.

 

[senordesol]

Sorry, but the idea of another revolution in the U.S. makes no sense at all. The only revolutions that actually happen are against oppressive, corrupt, authoritarian regimes.

DUH, HELLOOOOOO?! And what do you call the US?

Um...NOT that?

There are tedious laws, and no shortage of political corruption, but in general you can walk down the street, go about your business, make money, and associate with whomever you like without trouble.

 

[chadachada123]

Egypt turned out quite well after their revolt

You haven't been paying very close attention have you? lol

And its worth noting it wasn't really a revolution, it was a military coupe.

It was a military coupe started because of the anti-police and anti-President riots.

As for how they turned out, I admit that I've heard little about it recently, good or bad, but they had a perfectly legit election some months ago.

Do you have any evidence of bad things that have since happened? The only negative things that I've EVER heard was bullshit calling the Muslim Brotherhood a pro-theocracy band of murderers, which turned out to be completely unfounded (for the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood), just a bunch of Fox bullshit making Egyptians seem more anti-American than they actually are.

They are still FAR better off now than they were before Mubarak's collapse, even if things aren't going particularly well at the moment.

I love those videos, but the idea of an armed revolution helping to get there just doesn't work.

As absolutely broken as the electoral system in the US is, the fact remains that whoever gets the most votes still wins. How is it you think that it would take less money, resources and power to lead an armed rebellion against the government than it takes to win an election? That just doesn't even begin to make sense.

If you ask me (you didn't, but I'm gonna answer anyway) the problem with the US is that it's too large to work as a proper representative democracy anymore. Even with a better electoral system, there are so many people, over such a large area, with so little in common that everything has to boil down to a black or white us or them choice. Without that no one could ever conceivably get anything done at a national level.

It seems to me the only real alternative to the mess we're stuck with now is peaceful secession. Which is why I support a free Cascadia.

I agree with the size of the US being unworkable, for sure. That's what is great about the United States in theory: It was NEVER MEANT to get anything done on the national level. The federal government is responsible for nothing aside from the military, the federal court system, and printing money. (Pretty much) everything else is supposed to be left to the states, to solve the very issue that we currently have. It was meant to be like the EU in scope, but with the addition of the military (which is also supposed to not be nearly as large as it currently is).

The issue I see is that since the US is so big and our laws so fucked up, peaceful secession is impossible. If a state tried to secede, it would be forcefully prevented from doing so. I don't see any way out of this that doesn't involve violence or the death of the majority of our current government.

 

[chadachada123]

Just for fun, can you give concrete examples of how the people are better off?

Fair enough, the military really dropped the ball there.

They're better in that the police abuse now appears to be gone, but the situation does seem worse than it should have been.

Shame that the military no longer supports the people.

 

[chadachada123]

Just for fun, can you give concrete examples of how the people are better off?

Fair enough, the military really dropped the ball there.

They're better in that the police abuse now appears to be gone, but the situation does seem worse than it should have been.

Shame that the military no longer supports the people.

Nope, police abuse isn't gone either according to Amnesty Internation and Human Rights Watch

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/egypt-police-violence-casualties-and-individual-cases-2012-02-22
http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-egypt

Well shit. Guess things didn't turn out according to plan. Looks like they need another revolution or at least some generals with balls.

 

[spartan231490]

I doubt we would have any allies. Maybe china, they would want the war over as soon as possible and would love a friendly american government. However, it doesn't much matter. The US government couldn't launch any serious hardware against the people. This isn't like the rebellions you hear about, where a small, usually unimportant part of a country is isolated and rises against the government. This would be spread out across the entire country, any attempt to use heavy hardware would leave the entire country barren. No more farms, no more factories, cities in ruin. The government can't afford it. It would break the country. That means that any revolution here would come to infantry vs infantry, and the people would have much greater numbers, better knowledge of the areas they were fighting in, and only slightly inferior equipment.

Even if the government was stupid enough to pull the trigger on wide-spread bombing, the people are too widespread for it to be effective. And since our families are so widespread now, every individual killed by an indiscriminate attack, such as bombing, would leave dozens of in-family survivors, likely ready to take up the cause of the revolution themselves.

I imagine any large scale revolution would lead to a win of the people, but the odds of such a thing occurring are quite long. I can't imagine it happening.

 

[spartan231490]

Read the graphic novel series DMZ. The premise is a 2nd contemporary American civil war, in which the rebel faction seizes much of the country. New York city is the demilitarized zone, acting as a buffer between the forces.

It's pretty fun to read, even if a few parts are cliche.

NYC, what . . . how . . . buffer . . .

NYC is an island, it's not between anything and anything. How does it buffer the forces?

 

[spartan231490]

Another American Revolution would not happen. The chances of one happening are amazingly tiny. I do believe that America is going to eventually end up like Greece.

Really? I was thinking Rome...

Anyways, On Topic.

I dont think there will be a revolution anytime soon, atleast not like the American Revolution. There may be eventually an uprising of the citizens of this country, due in large part to the total ass-hattery of that going on right now, but even that wont be for a while. What it will take to really cause such a thing, is somewhere down the line, someone or something, either the president or the congress, will make something happen that suddenly causes the whole of the nation to go into an uproar...

My bets on extremist gun laws that bans every type of firearm...

That would do the trick, but everyone knows that so it's a political no-fly zone, and it will be for decades.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Revolution? Why? If the people get upset with the government, they stage protests, and if the protests are large enough, AND PEACEFUL, the government will have to listen. Martin Luther King Jr. proved that.

One of the things that annoys me the most about American politics is the amount of faith placed in the "precedent" system. By which I mean, when it comes to politics, "If it's happened once before, then that's good enough for me".

Bullshit. Government changes, the United States governmental system does not protect us against the kind of disaster that happened in Tienanmen square, or the permanent martial law imposed by a "democratic president" in Taiwan.

My point was more that MLK showed us that it can be done, and people aren't as stupid as some would say they are, so we'd really have no reason to not TRY peaceful protest before resorting to something much more controversial and violent. But again, this is all hypothetical, because I'm pretty sure aside from a few screwballs, nobody really wants to overthrow the US government. It has problems, but it's not that bad.

Furthermore, Martin King is NOT the only example of this occurring. SOPA anyone? It's proven that when people actually get off their lazy fucking asses and participate in the system, then the system works just fine. Lethargy and complacency are the true enemies of our democratic system, no matter what the parties would have you believe. It's our unwillingness to actually make it part of our regular schedule that cause it to suffer.

No, he certainly was not. Really, Gandhi was probably the most successful peaceful protester, but I felt an American example was more fitting. Also, lethargy and complacency are indeed the enemies of democracy, but there really isn't anything that can be done about that. Most people just want to live their lives in peace, and as long as they are reasonably content with the way things are, nothing will change, but you can't just tell people to care and expect them to nor should you look down on them for not caring. People will do what they think is necessary to live their lives happily.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

One of the world's largest militaries . . . versus a well-armed civilian population . . . and I can't aim a gun worth a damn . . . Yeah, fuck that noise, I'm moving to Canada.

But in all seriousness, regardless of allies, I doubt that there would be any way for the situation to end well.

 

[CrazyDave DC]

Sorry, but the idea of another revolution in the U.S. makes no sense at all. The only revolutions that actually happen are against oppressive, corrupt, authoritarian regimes.

DUH, HELLOOOOOO?! And what do you call the US?

I call the U.S. a democracy? What do you call it?

 

[Colour Scientist]

Allow me to rephrase. The American military wouldn't be willing to attack American citizens. You know, the ones they might be related to or friends with or whatever.

I'm not participating in the will it, won't it discussion but in that kind of situation they probably would. I'm not aiming that as a criticism of the American forces specifically but in times of civil war that's what happens. America wouldn't be an exception. That's why civil wars are always so messy.

 

[rokkolpo]

So that leaves... no one that could even come close to challenging the US miltary.

Two words:
Trade blockade.
An army can't run on a hungry stomach or without oil.

America is great enough to supply it's own food and oil.
Especially if it is only the army.

You'd only be getting the rebels.

 

[ZephrC]

I agree with the size of the US being unworkable, for sure. That's what is great about the United States in theory: It was NEVER MEANT to get anything done on the national level. The federal government is responsible for nothing aside from the military, the federal court system, and printing money. (Pretty much) everything else is supposed to be left to the states, to solve the very issue that we currently have. It was meant to be like the EU in scope, but with the addition of the military (which is also supposed to not be nearly as large as it currently is).

The issue I see is that since the US is so big and our laws so fucked up, peaceful secession is impossible. If a state tried to secede, it would be forcefully prevented from doing so. I don't see any way out of this that doesn't involve violence or the death of the majority of our current government.

The funny thing is that even the military wasn't really supposed to be run at the federal level. At least, not in the way it is today. The bulk of the army and smaller naval vessels were supposed to be run by militias that were completely funded and run at the state level, while the federal army was supposed to be a small, well-trained force that ran the larger naval vessels and coordinated the militias. It sure would be nice if it still worked that way, but that was changed after the civil war.

I still think that our best hope is peaceful secession. If the idea gains enough traction in enough places I think it could probably be implemented with minimal bloodshed. It would be really hard to stop it if more states were trying to secede than were trying to stay in the union.