If someone is a post-op transsexual, are they obligated to tell the person they are pursuing/dating?

hutchy27

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Diddy_Mao said:
I think it's something that certainly should be discussed.
I've got a buddy who had a vasectomy when he was 21. He makes it a pretty steadfast rule that once a relationship shows any signs of turning serious he has the "We can't have kids" discussion.

I don't mean to say that having a vasectomy is in any way shape or form the same thing as gender reassignment. I just use it as an example of how one must take responsibility for the choices they have made and how it might effect a long term romantic relationship.

It's been well over a decade since I was in the dating pool and I can't say with 100% certainty how I would react to this situation if placed in it myself. Having said that I think I'd still want to know if the woman I'm dating used to be a dude. It just strikes me as the responsible and respectful thing to do.
I would be devastated if I was planning on a future with someone and found out they couldn't have kids, I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation, most likely stick with them if it was due to say natural cause but maybe if they had a operation to not be able to just to use it as a excuse to get out of something serious.
 

Lady Larunai

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TomLikesGuitar said:
axlryder said:
just what the title says. This is mainly geared towards men dating post-op woman, but obviously it could go other ways as well. Do you think the transsexual individual is obligated to reveal this information? Or are they simply obligated to inform their partner that they can't make babies? Why? For all intensive purposes, let's say this particular transsexual makes a very convincing man/woman and one couldn't determine they used to be a member of the opposite sex without being told so.
I'm personally disgusted by the thought of having sex with a transsexual just as much as I am disgusted by the thought of sex with a man.

I'M ALLOWED TO HAVE THIS OPINION!

Anyone who tells me I'm wrong for this is judging me based on my sexuality... and that is wrong. I cannot control my sexuality.

So YES, of course they should be obligated to tell the person they are dating UP-FRONT.

A lot of people wouldn't want to date them for this reason, but you know what? A lot of people wouldn't want to date someone who has AIDS, but you don't just slip that in a conversation after a few months of dating.

CrystalShadow said:
I don't consider it a big deal. I think considering it important is stupid.
No offense, but it really doesn't matter what you think.

MOST people would consider it a big deal. It is a HUGE DEAL if the person you are interested in is not technically the fucking GENDER that you thought they were.

I could say the exact same thing to you,
No offense, but it really doesn't matter what you think.

There is no law requiring them to be upfront and the entire choice of informing is on the trans person alone, in the end it is THEIR CHOICE whether they tell you or not and there is nothing that can be done to take that right away, whether you think so or not what you believe is a truth to you may be a lie to them


And in the end all you can do besides questioning every girl you meet and hoping its not a lie to save your precious sexuality is hope that any trans person you meet feels so much pity for your fragile state of mind that they let you know their past.
 

gazumped

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TomLikesGuitar said:
axlryder said:
just what the title says. This is mainly geared towards men dating post-op woman, but obviously it could go other ways as well. Do you think the transsexual individual is obligated to reveal this information? Or are they simply obligated to inform their partner that they can't make babies? Why? For all intensive purposes, let's say this particular transsexual makes a very convincing man/woman and one couldn't determine they used to be a member of the opposite sex without being told so.
I'm personally disgusted by the thought of having sex with a transsexual just as much as I am disgusted by the thought of sex with a man.

I'M ALLOWED TO HAVE THIS OPINION!

Anyone who tells me I'm wrong for this is judging me based on my sexuality... and that is wrong. I cannot control my sexuality.

So YES, of course they should be obligated to tell the person they are dating UP-FRONT.

A lot of people wouldn't want to date them for this reason, but you know what? A lot of people wouldn't want to date someone who has AIDS, but you don't just slip that in a conversation after a few months of dating.

CrystalShadow said:
I don't consider it a big deal. I think considering it important is stupid.
No offense, but it really doesn't matter what you think.

MOST people would consider it a big deal. It is a HUGE DEAL if the person you are interested in is not technically the fucking GENDER that you thought they were.
See, this is sort of what I was saying earlier... Yes, you can't change your sexuality. You fancy girls.

And this hypothetical transperson is... a girl. Now. Yup, the same gender that you thought she was.

Obviously you don't feel that this is the case, but she does. In fact, she most probably feels that she was always a girl, but just had the misfortune of being born with the wrong parts, hence why she underwent the massive transition of getting those parts changed.

I can understand the argument that transpeople might be more unstable than most partners (have gone through major identity problems) or that the surgery itself makes people uncomfortable just like a boob job would, but the argument about them being the wrong gender... well, it's just saying, "Wait, you USED to be something I didn't like? Well, despite me finding you really hot now, the fact that at some point in the past you were someone I wouldn't have found attractive DISGUSTS me."

Also, the AIDS thing... you can't catch transgenderism or have your life ruined forever by sleeping with a transperson... STIs are the only serious personal issue (I can think of) that it may be necessary to outline all the grim details of before going near someone.
 

DirtyJunkieScum

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I'm not sure obligated is the word I'd use. If you are interested in a relationship with someone then I'd say it was the right thing to do. If it doesn't matter to them then hooray for you both, if it does then you can both move on to someone else. Even a quick fling I would consider it the right thing to do.


TehCookie said:
darkcalling said:
Heck if you met this girl

sarina-valentina-012.jpg

just walking down the street, would you ever think she was born a boy? She was and I wouldn't care.
I would have to question if that was born human and not some plastic alien race.

However if you're having sex wouldn't you notice?
You certainly would, after checking the main website for that picture I can confirm that that person still has a penis.

PS, it is a hardcore porn site so I've removed the link
 

DEAD34345

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Mortai Gravesend said:
Well geez, then the people should be upfront about wanting to know and how they feel about transsexuals. Otherwise they're clearly tricking the transsexual into sleeping with them.

And no, they shouldn't have to try and figure the person out well enough before. The other person apparently didn't care to get to know them incredibly well before. I don't see a reason to hold transsexuals to different standards. Some people choose to date without knowing each other so incredibly well. And they'll have to deal with the consequences of that themselves.
Just because some people don't check up on information like this doesn't mean that they should be taken advantage of. Doing so is wrong the same way getting a girl (or guy) drunk in order to sleep with them is. Yes, it's also the person's fault for allowing themselves to be gotten drunk, and for consenting while drunk, but it's still morally reprehensible for the other person to be doing it. (And no, I'm not saying those situations are the same, I'm saying they're wrong for the same reason.)

There is a very high chance that someone will not want to sleep with a transexual, and whether you think that's right or wrong is irrelevant, you should inform them. If the other person had some secret that might make you not want to sleep with them, I'd say it's wrong for them to hide it too.

CrystalShadow said:
Ah, but see, I disagree entirely. About the sex bit anyway.
Mostly because it's not a trick. And I don't buy any argument that implies it is.
Besides, it makes no sense in general. They clearly would want to sleep with you, all else being equal, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to get you to...
Well, anyway, Something about the logic behind this just doesn't add up.


Now, I certainly don't think it's a good idea to keep something like this to yourself in a long-term relationship.

But sex? I don't see why that is anything significant.
(Of course, perhaps that's circumstantial. I've never tried to get anyone to have sex with me. It's always the other way around.
How can you 'trick' someone into having sex with you, if they are the ones making all the effort? If they weren't pushing for it, it would never have happened in the first place, yet you're implying it's sexual assault because I'd let them get what they wanted without explicitly telling them something that might change their mind?
No. Sorry. I don't get it. Seems like a complete perversion of everything.)
I'm not saying it's the same as sexual assault, I'm saying it's wrong for some of the same reasons. People have a right to choose whether they're OK having sex with people based on any criteria they want, and many people would not want to have sex with a transsexual. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it's their right to decide nonetheless. By withholding that information when you know it has a high chance of making them change their mind, you would be doing something akin to (but not quite the same as) manipulating them into sleeping with you, in my opinion.

I don't think this kind of thing should be legally wrong, but morally, I'd say it's wrong. Not on the same level as rape or actual sexual assault, but bad nonetheless.
 

Chanel Tompkins

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The partner is inevitably going to ask why they can't have kids, so it's probably better to be honest and up front about it. But I don't think it's an absolute, set in stone obligation.
 

Something Amyss

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bahumat42 said:
so in your world there is no psychology?
Quite the opposite, actually. Psychology fully demonstrates that your folk wisdom is nonsense.

Sociology is a meaningless dead end a pointless waste of millions of man hours across the globe.
Sociology is fascinating and I wish I had more time to devote to studying it.

Get your head out your ass.
You're the one inferring these things for which I need to get my head out of my ass.

And i didn't say it was an issue exclusive to that group of society,
No, you merely indicted that they couldn't change (Despite mountains of evidence to the contrary).

Actually, not far off the mark, homosexuality is an area where actions are widely observed contrary to their upbringing. Few people are, as you put it, "socialised" gay. Or do you believe otherwise? Your comments on socialisation would imply that you believe that to be the case, but maybe you're just unintentionally contradicting yourself.

take me for example, if i shed the 6 stone or so id need to be the right target weight it wouldn't stop me being a fat bastard on the inside, id still love cake.
Many fields of psychology would argue that you could alter that behaviour. Regardless, the argument "I can't change, ergo nobody can" is inane. It's still funny that you accused me of calling psych a load of crap when you yourself are railing against it at every possible turn.

You just seem to want lash out and argue at people disqualifying their arguments because their not sympathetic enough. Which is all well and grand if you want to be ignorant. But peoples minds do not change over night.
According to you, they don't change. :p

It has nothing to do with sympathy. I have no idea why you're inferring this. At best, I asked if you had any insight. Insight isn't sympathy, it's understanding. Understanding, especially in psychology, is rather important.

I'm also not sure why you're accusing someone else of lashing out. Your posts seem full of behaviour more fitting, including this post. After all, you were the one who told me to get my head out of my ass because you inferred non-existent statements.

If they did there wouldn't be as many addicts in the world.
Behavioural modification therapies work great. There are more issues than that at play, though. I can't understand why you wish to make this black and white, but it isn't.

Mortai Gravesend said:
Talk about psychology is hilarious coming from someone who just talked about that "men are from mars women are from venus" crap. And followed it up with folk wisdom no less. You do realize that is NOT what the field of psychology is made up of, right?
I think I love you. XD
 

Something Amyss

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bahumat42 said:
For the record half this thread is going on about theres nothing different between a transgender person and cisgender one, i merely point out the mental state situation because it seems to be something people are overlooking.
And a smashing job you're doing, bringing up an untrue point that people have "overlooked" due to its lack of factual basis.

Theres no point bring up sources for you because you wouldn't understand the data that im showing. Considering the fact you can't comprehend gender roles and the effect of early socialisation has on an individual is more than ample proof of this.
You appear to believe "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is psychology. I don't think you'd understand real data if it did a striptease in front of you wearing nothing but a scantily clad peer reviewed journal.
 

Something Amyss

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Mortai Gravesend said:
But.. but.. you didn't say whether you were a guy or girl or what you were born as the second you said that. So clearly it's a terrible deception and attempted rape =O
It was clearly a problem with my socialisation as a child. I seem to have broken the mould, otherwise you would have been able to tell my gender (at least, my raised gender) simply by my behaviour. >.>

But I do have to thank you for pointing out what to call that leopard quote. I really dislike it when people throw those out so seriously and now I know to just call it folk wisdom -__-
Yeah, kinda reticent to step into these conversations. This is a touchy issue. But when I saw leopards and planets involved, it's time to start speaking.
 

Kermi

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I think they should reveal that when it becomes clear that a long term relationship is in the cards. Partially because that's a hell of a bombshell to have dropped on you after 5-10 years of marriage for instance, so the longer you leave it the worse it will be.
The other part is reproduction - if I were sterile I'd reveal that to my partner so she'd know we could never conceive a child. A post-op transsexual has the same obligation, even if it's for different reasons.
 

Cette

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Can't speak for everyone on this but I'm very big on honesty. And if I can't trust a person to be honest about important things I can't respect them. And I do not sleep with people I don't respect.


I'm not rightly sure how I would react to having something like that come up however if I was already willing to have sex with you beforehand then chances are I'm still attracted and it's only a problem if it's kept secret for a long time.


All that being said it's hard to draw the line for other people. Still if you think something might be a big deal to your partner it's not a terrible idea to clear the air on the matter. Very few people are going to respond well to something like this being dropped on them after the fact even if what's being omitted was a non issue to begin with.
 

Jaeke

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WTF is with the Escapists obsession with transgender/transsexuals, its just unnatural and who cares? And yes they must tell them immediately.
 

requisitename

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CrystalShadow said:
requisitename said:
I don't view it as necessarily distasteful. I apologize if I came across that way. I just don't see them as at all comparable. :) I can see killing someone in wartime as being much more comparable because it is technically a choice you make (regardless of the reasons). I don't think there's really a good analogy, though.

I have a friend who was transgendered in high school and is now a guy. He and I have discussed at length what went into the decision making process and I must admit that, although I accept it and I'm glad he's happy, I don't understand it at all. I really think it's something that you probably *can't* truly understand unless it's part of your own life. I would think, for instance, that once you've made the decision and gone through with it, it would be so freeing to be able to be who you are. But, as I said, I can't claim to understand it.

As for worthy of love.. I really think that everyone is, regardless of what they do. It's perfectly possible, however, to love someone and not want to be with them because they deceived you.
The analogies made here are problematic, though I can see where they're coming from.

So let's look at the implications.

A transsexual changes their body. This is a choice. But it's only a choice because it has to be. Their body won't change itself.

This is one of the main things separating it from homosexuality insofar as how you are confronted with it.

Being homosexual isn't usually considered a choice. It's just something you are. And when you 'come out' all you are actually doing is being honest with yourself about this.

Transsexuals face the idea of 'coming out' as well, but to them it is merely a first step, because what you're facing if you are trans is an issue that isn't resolved merely by admitting you are. Your body is a source of conflict, and it takes a lot of effort to cope with. All that surgery and hormonal intervention isn't done just on some kind of whim, it is a medical intervention intended to reduce this innate, ongoing discomfort as much as possible.

But... This discomfort is caused by feeling as if you are one thing, when the biology of your own body mostly implies you are something else.

Being reminded of this fact is generally traumatic in and of itself. All the more so if you think you've finally managed to put it behind you.

So, this is more than merely a question of honesty, but also a question of being expected to constantly revisit something you'd rather forget.

Now, not everyone is that insecure, but on the whole, a transsexual doesn't want to be constantly reminded of what they used to be. (Or that some people still think of them that way, which in some ways is even worse.)

OK, so you can't expect others to play along with that just because... But at the end of the day you are expecting someone to basically do themselves psychological damage for the sake of being 'honest' with someone else.

In any event, while I can't tell you this expectation of 'honesty' is wrong, I do find it somewhat disturbing how much it potentially trivialises the transsexual's own perspective.
Thank you for your perspective. (That's not sarcasm.)

I've come to the conclusion that I don't know the right answer. I only know that I would feel betrayed if I somehow found out from someone other than the person I was involved with and I would probably break it off.. not because "Ewww!".. but because I'd feel like they didn't trust me enough to let me in on something that was so important in making them the person I care about.

That might not be "right", but I am a person who thinks trust (coupled with communication) is the most important thing in a relationship. I couldn't be with someone seriously who didn't let me in.
 

DigitalSushi

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Jaeke said:
WTF is with the Escapists obsession with transgender/transsexuals, its just unnatural and who cares? And yes they must tell them immediately.
We have a few transgenders, transexuals here and a few people with gender identity disorder, we don't have an obsession with them but its good to talk about these issues with each other like adults. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad, bad to you, not to others.

About it being unnatural?, wearing clothes, travelling in a metal structure which burns fossil fuels such as car's, trains and planes and microwaves are also unnatural. Caesarean section's are unnatural.

Don't get me started on non dairy cheese products.
 

Flight

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I think they are, actually. Honesty is important in a relationship, and if the person in question feels they can't be honest about that, then maybe they shouldn't be in a relationship with the partner in question.
 

The Ambrosian

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Raika said:
Cavan said:
I have a comparison for you, that will maybe make 'you' understand and i'm actually sort of proud of this one.

Imagine that you were a former prisoner, you are now free..but that doesn't change the fact that you used to be there. The morally right thing to do would be to tell people how things used to stand, so that they can understand how you have come to change and will be able to comprehend how you may respond to things in the future. How would you feel if somebody had spend over a decade of their life in prison and never told you and acted as if it had never had any impact on their personality and they refused to share that portion of their life with you in a relationship?
Right, because being transgender is the exact same thing as being a convicted criminal.

Are you serious?



The ignorance of society never ceases to amaze me. You people still think that the transgendered community just exists to deceive you and turn you gay? Don't fucking flatter yourselves.
Yup. That is exactly how analogies work.
Don't jump to conclusions like that and go off on someone. It's not nice.
He wasn't saying TRANSGENDERED PEOPLE ARE CONVICTS!!!1!. He could have gone about it better, yes, but that wasn't the point of the damned analogy.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Yes they are obligated. Because for me, regardless of their operation, i will see that girl as a guy still.