I'm a straight male gamer, convince me diversity in games is a good thing

[f1r2a3n4k5]

My answer: Because there are untapped qualities there. Qualities which have the potential to elevate the story-telling in game.

Examples: "The Walking Dead." In this story, we get a touching connection between a black surrogate parent to a female child. It allows for story topics about being a "parent."
Would it have been better if the story was about a single, white male protagonist trying to survive the zombie apocalypse? Maybe. But probably wouldn't have had the same impact.

"Persona 4." We see gender & sexuality issues. Granted, they were watered down for US audiences. But they permit for a story about struggling with one's inner self on the grounds of society's expectations. Would the story have been as intriguing if every character had the same issue? Would the scope be lessened if all the characters were straight men? I think yes.

 

[Something Amyss]

I would think basic empathy would be enough, but okay, what's in it for you?

That depends. Do you like Call of Duty?

 

[megaflash]

Unless you're an easily entertained moron who is happy to fork over $60 for the same experience every year, yeah, diversity is going to be a good thing for you.

So you're telling me if, for example, the next Call of Duty had a diverse cast it would all of a sudden be interesting versus the same boring slag that it is every year, but since it still stars mainly white guys now it's same-old crap for, "easily entertained morons"? This is the main reason why I don't buy the whole, "you should want diversity in games because it makes them more interesting!" arguement. Just because a game stars mostly white guys doesn't make it suddenly uninteresting or less interesting then a game with a diverse cast.

To give an example, Team Fortress 2 stars 8 straight white guys out of a cast of 9 guys. By the logic that more whites guys = less interesting, the 8 characters that are white should all be dull and uninteresting. Compared to most video game casts, TF2 has a very fun cast of characters, despite the fact that they're all white straight guys.

What makes a character interesting is the character itself; just because he's white doesn't mean he's any less interesting.

This.

It is not just how the character looks. It's how they talks, how they acts, and good writing that goes into their character. TF2 started off as a team based shooter with 9 classes. Over the course of years, Valve developed the different classes personalities, stories, and the interactions between the two teams. It's not great writing, but for a game that started off as a sequel to a mod, it's pretty good.

To me, diversity isn't about race, or sexuality. It's about how interesting the character is. The rest are just parts of the whole.

 

[Vault101]

...ok I'll bite

Normally I'm one to just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend everything is fine when discussions about diversity get brought up, but with all these articles about how the 'evil dudebro gamers'

now heres the first mistake people make...

they think they this is something "they" individually as people should (for whatever reason) feel bad about, this isn't a game thing this something that flavours a lot of the conversation in regards to thease topics, you said yourself you "stick your fingers in your ears and pretend everything is fine" why is that? was that an admission that you are aware things "aren't" fine? aside from that notice how a lot of "arguments" from straight white male camp can essentially be boiled down to [i/]will you just be quiet and go away?[/i] the best I can do to understand this is figure that people get uncomfortable when things they like are criticised, I used to get that way too

untill I realised that WHATEVER you like somone out there will take issue with it,,,and thats ok. I can look at the things I like and mabye see one or two things that make me think twice...but how much it bothers me depends on a lot of factors

[b/]that is not[/b] an excuse to dismiss peoples arguments, rather a way of saying that someone taking moral issues with the things you like isn't the end of the world, and that acknowledging something is not the same as taking the "blame" for something

like for example Australia, people got their undies in a twist over the concept of a formal "apology" to the Aboriginal people, aside from that little bit of racism creeping in it was the same "Well I didn't do it" no your right, you weren't there 100 years ago doing all that crap, but lets not pretend it didn't happen, it did...white people come and fuck shit up... and I don't feel "bad" about it...because its history, but I don't see why we need to sugar coat it either, its not self loathing, its just the facts

[quote/]Is this a good thing, for me? From where I'm standing, all diversity in gaming has brought us is shit like Gone Home. How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam? How is this a good thing exactly?[/quote]

and the second problem...a very narrow way of looking at things and somewhat knee jerk

I like gone home, it wasn't for everyone but for what it was I really enjoyed it, now I can accept the critcism that it wasn't "gamey enough" (in that ok then, then it wasn't for you)

but what bothers me about the criticism of Gone Home is I get the impression because it focused on the coming out story of a young girl that people jumped on [b/]that[/b] as though "I'm being preached too! I don't like it!!" similar thing to when you get any work that acknowledges the existence of gay people, you get those crawling out of the woodwork to scream about the "gay agenda" (ok the former isn't as extreme)

as a Bi leaning person this makes me sad, being gay in this day and age should not be a big deal, in that our existence shouldn't be "erased"

I know some stories will resonate with some people more than others, this is both due to taste and personal experience, BUT there is no reason people can't enjoy stories featuring those different from themselves, that's what we those who aren't that main demographic been doing almost the entire time, (not just games)

also compare games to Hollywood, Hollywood is not known for its progressiveness yet compared to games its so much better....especially when we've had hits like Hunger games, Frozen and Gravity

I get the impression you (and other people) have created a bogeyman that doesn't exist, this is all internet discourse, this is not some great monster come in to destroy art, people acxtually convince themsevles that people more diverse and progressive is somehow a threat to gaming [b/]when at the same time[/b] you can see the wave of bullshit before your very eyes, DLC, mincro transactions, EA profitcs, AAA costs....and this...THIS the reasonable call for more variety is somehow damning?

I really don't know how people do it...

on that same line much like what erthking said....some of the games in the past that have had different kinds of characters...or more options for those characters are Fallout NV, Borderlands, Mass Effect 3, Dragon age inquisition is shaping up to be good in that way

none of these are "equality simulator beat down the white guy"....honestly I think the idea that thats how things happen comes from some serious scare mongering/being threatened

you should worry about crippling AAA costs making games worse before you even think about worrying of games becoming PC....

methinks people should take a break from the internet

 

[Norithics]

You're asking me, amidst an industry that's so creatively bankrupt that it's reinventing the wheel every year, why we should try to shame people into introducing a little variety?

If it's not self-apparent by now I don't know what to tell you. As a white male gamer I am bored. I want to introduce different elements not because that's a simple fix to a complex problem, but because it has a higher chance of forcing them to figure out something new. They're too good at milking money from people; introduce more obstacles and make them overcome them. You know, actually show some of that brilliance they pat themselves on the back for every board meeting.

 

[Bakuryukun]

Because having a bigger amount of variety would make things more interesting because we would have a larger pool of life to pull from? Man, I hope you're trolling because if you actually need this to be explained to you then you aren't a smart cookie.

Also if it turns out that having more variety doesn't do anything for you personally, whoopidie doo for you, this industry isn't designed to serve only you and only your interests.

A bunch of different kinds of people like games, so we should have a bunch of diversity, does this mean that people of a for example specific race will only like a game if the protag is of their race? No, of course not. Sometimes people want to play a character that is like them in some way, sometimes people play characters that are completely UNLIKE themselves. In both of those examples more variety increases the chance of people getting what they want.

Protip: It is stupid to plug your ears and not listen every time something you don't understand or appreciate comes up. All you're doing is contributing to your own continued ignorance. Grow up.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Sorry if what I'm saying was already covered... I wrote it hours ago and then fell asleep without posting it. Ah well...

How is dumbing games down so that more women can play them a good thing exactly?

I wasn't going to comment in this thread until I read the quote above.

Has it occurred to you that we women don't need games "dumbed down" to our apparently incompetent level? Do you think that we women ONLY want games like Gone Home? Well you're completely wrong about that. I very rarely tell people that they're wrong because I respect differences of opinion, but I know plenty of women (of which I'm one) who love difficult games AND games like Gone Home. I know plenty of female gamers who have 1250/1250 gamerscore in Dark Souls, and a perfect score in the second game too (don't ask me what that score is because I haven't played it yet). The only thing that's stopped me from getting a perfect score in DS is that I'm burned out on video games right now and haven't played anything in six weeks. (DS is what I was playing when I stopped, but it wasn't what burned me out - that had to do with a stupid gaming tournament that I was in coupled with a death in my family on July 9.)

Another thing I'm tired of seeing is people who think that games like Gone Home are only pandering for awards or are the product of some imaginary quota. Don't people think that developers actually WANT to weave a story from a female point of view, and aren't being pushed into it by societal pressure? I'd love to know how many of these devs are sitting around saying, "Ugh, I WANTED to write a story about a 30-something, white, stubbly faced, male protagonist, but I'm being forced into this female bullshit."

Also, why groan about a game like Gone Home winning accolades from reviewers? Reviewers might have just LIKED the game. I know I liked the game, and I'd give it glowing reviews. 10/10 in my book. It finally told a story that I can relate to on a personal level, which is something that I've never seen before in a game. And does a user score of 5.4 really mean anything, or does it simply mean that Gone Home catered to a demographic that's been ignored, and the majority didn't like that? Just tonight I watched a movie on Netflix that had a low user rating, Netflix predicted I'd rate it barely higher than 2/5, but the story seemed interesting to me. Sure enough, it was one of the most unsettling, twisted, and fucked-up movies I've ever seen. Well, unsettling, twisted, and fucked-up are positive qualities in my book and I rated it 5/5.

I guess what I'm trying to say is why care about user ratings when they all say "I hated the story" or "this doesn't fit my idea of a game," which is what so many complained about with Gone Home. Those are subjective opinions only. If the reviews all say the game is broken, buggy, glitchy, or unplayable, that's a different story.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I'm just gonna assume your playing devils advocate.

Cause if you legitimately need to be convinced diversity is a good thing, there's other problems at play here in far greater need of sorting out.

but I'll humor you for the sake of 'nothing better to do at the moment'.

Diversity doesn't just mean the inclusion of characters of other races/genders/sexual preferences besides 'straight, white, male', though it is how the word is thrown around the most. It's the inclusion of all things, which means genera, story's, mechanics, graphical style, and yes this means there will be more games out there you have no interest in playing, this is not a bad thing, this is infact a good thing.


With out have any kind of diversity in games, you would not have what ever genera you prefer and we'd all still be playing Pong, or more likely. Nothing at all. I mean if you really want to see what gaming would be like with out diversity. App store bro. nothing but clones of 2 or 3 games far as the eye can see. I doubt you want that.

So no. More games your not interested in is not a bad thing. It is infact a good thing for gaming on the whole that there are more games, even if it means your gonna have to look a little harder for what you like.

edit:
Besides, anything to drown out the copy/pasted shit like CoD and Madden or all the games that are just copys of other games is good. Most the games in my library are indie games any more because mainstream gaming is so fully of inbreed knock offs that I just come away from the trailer for what ever new Military FPS or GTA knock off I'm 'supposed to care about' feeling so incredibly bored that I MAYBE buy 1 big name release every 2 years.

If I'm LUCKY.

 

[TasmanianDevil]

Sorry if what I'm saying was already covered... I wrote it hours ago and then fell asleep without posting it. Ah well...

How is dumbing games down so that more women can play them a good thing exactly?

I wasn't going to comment in this thread until I read the quote above.

Wow, I can't believe such people actually exist. Who the hell has this pre-Medieval style mindset in the modern day? Women are as intellectually capable as any man; the sheer number of female teachers, lawyers, scientists should tell you that on a basic level. Suddenly I feel I understand why so so many video games feel the need to treat their players like idiots, requiring guidance from point A to B...

 

[Funyahns]

Honestly as a straight male possibly white gamer you are mostly considered the target audience for whatever power fantasy that you could ever want. Game makers are going to continue making games for you to play for a long time. So there are other games out there that may not interest you, but if it interests another person that is fantastic. It could also bring more people into the gaming culture which is good since it could lead to more developers bringing new ideas. The next big game type will not come from activision or EA. We have a surge of games right now who are trying to be like Minecraft. Both in building worlds, and survival games. A game like Don't starve would be something I would suggest to a Minecraft fan.

 

[SadisticFire]

I'm running out of games to play and find a lot of others boring because it's the same thing at this point it feels like. There's not really anything to convince you beyond variety is the spice of life. Like Alex from LRR said, "There's nothing wrong with straight white guys, but when it's the same damn 'grr my wife died and im angry' it gets pretty damn boring."

Seriously, nothing wrong with it. It's just played out.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

The simple answer is that the diversity is not for you, it is for all those of us that aren't straight, white men. If you can't accept that people other than yourself might want to enjoy games where they feel represented or can live out their power fantasies, then I am sorry but you are kind of egotistical.

A side effect of the better representation might be that you learn something new about what people of other genders, ethnicities and classes face, feel and do.

 

[Story]

Obligatory answer your question with my own question(s):
OP why does it bother you that Gone Home is on the market? Or that more diverse games are on the market? Is this really negatively affecting you this much?
Why are you bothered by gone home but not infamous games actually deserving hate like Custer's Revenge?

I don't get it.

 

[burnout02urza]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent. I'm personally against any attempt to pander to the vocal minority, and I'll vote with my wallet, accordingly.

Ultimately, it's a case of making games for the people who are actually going to buy them, as compared to those who aren't actually going to support the industry. The people calling for diversity tend to be those who don't play video games at all.

Just look at the comics industry: All-New Ultimates and All-New Ghost Rider, both of which feature minority protagonists, have been canned. Why? Because the people pushing for more representation are those who don't buy or read comics. Straight white males buy and read comics, and buy/play video games.

This is just another aspect of the general social justice wave we've been experiencing, which will peter out the way Occupy Wall Street and the hippie movement petered out. There's no future in it.

Also: Gone Home and Depression Quest are terrible games. There's no merit to them, and they're highly praised because of reviewers too afraid to do anything but toe the party line. Remember when DmC came out? How every reviewer rushed to suck the game's cock, even though it was awful?

This is what we're experiencing, on a larger scale. They know it's a stinker, but they're closing ranks anyway because of 'MUH MISOGYNY'.

 

[xaszatm]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent. I'm personally against any attempt to pander to the vocal minority, and I'll vote with my wallet, accordingly.

Ultimately, it's a case of making games for the people who are actually going to buy them, as compared to those who aren't actually going to support the industry. The people calling for diversity tend to be those who don't play video games at all.

Just look at the comics industry: All-New Ultimates and All-New Ghost Rider, both of which feature minority protagonists, have been canned. Why? Because the people pushing for more representation are those who don't buy or read comics. Straight white males buy and read comics, and buy/play video games.

This is just another aspect of the general social justice wave we've been experiencing, which will peter out the way Occupy Wall Street and the hippie movement petered out. There's no future in it.

Also: Gone Home and Depression Quest are terrible games. There's no merit to them, and they're highly praised because of reviewers too afraid to do anything but toe the party line. Remember when DmC came out? How every reviewer rushed to suck the game's cock, even though it was awful?

This is what we're experiencing, on a larger scale. They know it's a stinker, but they're closing ranks anyway because of 'MUH MISOGYNY'.

So shall I assume that Lara Croft doesn't fit into this narrative. Or any JRPG EVER? Or a good junk of Japanese Games? Because even among the hardcore crowd, there are games that place you away from a Straight, White Male. Do they no longer count as games now?

 

[Story]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent. I'm personally against any attempt to pander to the vocal minority, and I'll vote with my wallet, accordingly.

Ultimately, it's a case of making games for the people who are actually going to buy them, as compared to those who aren't actually going to support the industry. The people calling for diversity tend to be those who don't play video games at all.

Just look at the comics industry: All-New Ultimates and All-New Ghost Rider, both of which feature minority protagonists, have been canned. Why? Because the people pushing for more representation are those who don't buy or read comics. Straight white males buy and read comics, and buy/play video games.

This is just another aspect of the general social justice wave we've been experiencing, which will peter out the way Occupy Wall Street and the hippie movement petered out. There's no future in it.

Also: Gone Home and Depression Quest are terrible games. There's no merit to them, and they're highly praised because of reviewers too afraid to do anything but toe the party line. Remember when DmC came out? How every reviewer rushed to suck the game's cock, even though it was awful?

This is what we're experiencing, on a larger scale. They know it's a stinker, but they're closing ranks anyway because of 'MUH MISOGYNY'.

e-e
Whoa, this post...this post right here.
It's kinda amazing, I got to admit.

To think only straight white males buy game and...comics even, is naive. The world isn't ruled in absolutes and a sensible business person knows it is better in the long run to expand your market especially if one works in the entertainment industry.
Even if you do think comics industry = video games industry which is not true, as they both face their own challenges, how has providing diversity in the video game industry hurt it in any way? I'm honestly confused in that fact.

I bought a video game today and I'm not male or white. I guess I'm some kind of myth, like a unicorn or something.

Captcha: "A Better Way to Buy"
No kidding?

 

[xaszatm]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent. I'm personally against any attempt to pander to the vocal minority, and I'll vote with my wallet, accordingly.

Ultimately, it's a case of making games for the people who are actually going to buy them, as compared to those who aren't actually going to support the industry. The people calling for diversity tend to be those who don't play video games at all.

Just look at the comics industry: All-New Ultimates and All-New Ghost Rider, both of which feature minority protagonists, have been canned. Why? Because the people pushing for more representation are those who don't buy or read comics. Straight white males buy and read comics, and buy/play video games.

This is just another aspect of the general social justice wave we've been experiencing, which will peter out the way Occupy Wall Street and the hippie movement petered out. There's no future in it.

Also: Gone Home and Depression Quest are terrible games. There's no merit to them, and they're highly praised because of reviewers too afraid to do anything but toe the party line. Remember when DmC came out? How every reviewer rushed to suck the game's cock, even though it was awful?

This is what we're experiencing, on a larger scale. They know it's a stinker, but they're closing ranks anyway because of 'MUH MISOGYNY'.

e-e
Whoa, this post...this post right here.
It's kinda amazing, I got to admit.

To think only straight white males buy game and...comics even, is naive. The world isn't ruled in absolutes and a sensible business person knows it is better in the long run to expand your market especially if one works in the entertainment industry.
Even if you do think comics industry = video games industry which is not true, as they both face their own challenges, how has providing diversity in the video game industry hurt it in any way? I'm honestly confused in that fact.

I bought a video game today and I'm not male or white. I guess I'm done kind of myth, like a unicorn or something.

Captcha: "A Better Way to Buy"
No kidding?

Not to mention that suddenly Japan is now full of white guys.

 

[TasmanianDevil]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent.

Your whole post. Just...your whole post. Dude, I'm a gay guy and I buy shit tons of comics and games; $1000s of dollars worth over my life time. There's heaps of people like me just in my city alone, and even more who are merely non-white, or women; on an international level, that must be huge numbers. There's obviously audiences for the 'pandering' companies do, or they wouldn't do it, pressure or not - companies want money before publicity, always. There's various reasons anything can fail when they do - it's true that perhaps it could be a lack of consumer support, but it could also be shitty marketing, poor accessability, or any number of things. Honestly don't get how you can think these sorts of things when, logically, they couldn't possibly be true.

 

[GenuflectHonesty]

Diversity is basically nonsense. I'm not going to buy any games where I can't play as a straight white guy protagonist - Or something close enough to the equivalent. I'm personally against any attempt to pander to the vocal minority, and I'll vote with my wallet, accordingly.

Ultimately, it's a case of making games for the people who are actually going to buy them, as compared to those who aren't actually going to support the industry. The people calling for diversity tend to be those who don't play video games at all.

Just look at the comics industry: All-New Ultimates and All-New Ghost Rider, both of which feature minority protagonists, have been canned. Why? Because the people pushing for more representation are those who don't buy or read comics. Straight white males buy and read comics, and buy/play video games.

This is just another aspect of the general social justice wave we've been experiencing, which will peter out the way Occupy Wall Street and the hippie movement petered out. There's no future in it.

Also: Gone Home and Depression Quest are terrible games. There's no merit to them, and they're highly praised because of reviewers too afraid to do anything but toe the party line. Remember when DmC came out? How every reviewer rushed to suck the game's cock, even though it was awful?

This is what we're experiencing, on a larger scale. They know it's a stinker, but they're closing ranks anyway because of 'MUH MISOGYNY'.

I most certainly buy video games, sir. I'm looking a wall of them right now and I'm kind of baffled that you thought that posting this was a good idea.

 

[burnout02urza]

Oh please, you know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about game that are meant to appeal to the Straight White Male demographic. Plenty of JRPGs appeal to the Straight White Male demographic, even if they aren't meant to - They give the same violent and sexual content that has universal appeal. Tomb Raider...Eh, I'd give you that, but I generally don't play games with a female protagonist.

When I play an MMO, I make a straight white male. When I play an RPG, the character's also a straight white male. (Or the closest equivalent: Dark Souls would be a male Undead, Mass Effect would be a straight, male Commander Shepherd.)

I can't believe that you're seriously comparing something like Tomb Raider or Tales of Xilla to Gone Home or Depression Quest. There's a massive gulf - You might as well say that something like Agarest Senki is feminist, because there are female characters...When the emphasis is on titillation and clunky JRPG combat...But mostly titillation.

More, I never said that 'only' straight white males buy games and comics. That's prevarication. I am, however, saying that the majority of gamers are indeed straight white males. (All right, straight males in general - I'll give you that one.) That's where gaming companies know their bread is buttered on: The bulk of their sales come, overwhelmingly, from that demographic.

They should be punished with less sales and bad press for moving away from it, instead of people desperately trying to tell us 'this is what we should want'. If they embraced the social justice warrior crowd, they'd be sadly disappointed in how much they expect profits to jump - And in fact, profits should drop as compared to a game aimed at the majority demographic.

edit: In fact, I would say that Japanese games in general are more appealing to the Straight White Male (Or really, just the Straight Male) demographic than Western games are. For one thing, the women are generally more attractive and feminine. They also don't have to try as hard to be 'one of the boys', manly and masculine and GRAAAAAH.

It's like there's this overwhelming fear that correlates feminity and attractiveness with sexism. Anita is simply throwing fuel on the fire, by feeding this mistaken assumption.