I'm a straight male gamer, convince me diversity in games is a good thing

Pinuyasha

New member
Oct 24, 2012
4
0
0
Fenrox Jackson said:
Pinuyasha said:
Fenrox Jackson said:
Pinuyasha said:
I'm going to take a guess that the OP isn't too good with expressing what his actual problem is with all the diversity stuff and it came out as him saying he doesn't like the diversity movement. I'm going to try to put your thoughts in better words, OP, so tell me if I'm right.

The problem isn't the diversity in itself. After all, it doesn't make a lot of sense why you would be against having some protagonists that don't look like they came out of CoD, unless you really are just small minded.
That, that right there. It couldn't possibly be that all these people are small minded could it? Lets keep excusing and rationalizing things. Ducks most certainly aren't always ducks right? Yes, please continue with the infinite patience.
The most extreme conclusions are almost never the right answer. The fact that this thread was even made is a good indication that it's not.
How is it extreme? Mind you there are people that are anti-environment in our world. They are not (just) against laws and environmental protections, they hate nature and want it destroyed. They are firing gleefully at the glass house where they live at the bottom of the sea. I would say that they are extreme, yet saying you are an anti-environmentalist does not conjure the same suicidal impression. I don't think it's far fetched or generalized when I say that someone who "stands up" to diversity is a small minded person, dare I say a bigot. If we keep thinking of terms like racism and bigotry as separate from ourselves, well, WE TURN INTO THEM. So no, not an extreme conclusion, some bigots know how to troll and write.
No one actually wants the planet destroyed. That's some Captain Planet level logic, and it's also an example of an extreme conclusion: that they just hate the environment. In reality the anti-environment people are either in the camp of knowing it's true, but they don't care because of profits, or are just too uneducated and ignorant to understand the facts. Unless they're in the KKK or Neo Nazis, it's incredibly unlikely that a bunch of gamers are actively against not having everyone look like a buzz cut white dude. What they are against is a group who waves their own brand of "diversity" around that demands everyone conforms to their opinion and attacks those that don't. Let's not forget, MovieBob and many other gamers started lamenting the loss of diversity long before this mess ever got started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhzyOzItDnc

See that upload date? Feb 11, 2008. This is by no means a new topic. It just so happens that the cause has been picked up by a group of bad apples, and now we can no longer deal with it rationally. And the golden quote from MovieBob:

"The main hero, if and when you do see him, is going to be a scruffy, unshaven white guy..."

Funny how hearing the message from someone the gaming community actually respected vs. loudmouths and agenda pushers makes a HUGE difference in the response you get. Given how MovieBob's career and fan base has only gone up since 2008, who delivers the messages is incredibly important in this discussion. MovieBob is not allowed the say the same thing now without massive backlash due to it being now associated with the agenda pushers and extremists.
 

Dragonlayer

Aka Corporal Yakob
Dec 5, 2013
971
0
0
Because you can have a whole new variety of colourful people to kill! Plus the stuff other people have argued, mainly that diversity in gaming genres and the such ensures the industry will have something to cater to every taste: I like my violent FPSs *and* my emotionally moving character dramas.

EDIT

Hell, I've just been enjoying the hell out of gaming diversity come to think of it: walking a fine path between conquest and extinction as a outnumbered and surrounded ninja clan in Shogun 2, destroying families and shattering dreams as a cog in the brutally uncaring totalitarian state in Papers, Please, stubbornly clawing my way to a bloody victory over the Communist hordes in Company of Heroes 2 and crying my eyes out in The Walking Dead: Season Two.
 

krebons12

New member
Jun 23, 2014
36
0
0
Genocidicles said:
Normally I'm one to just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend everything is fine when discussions about diversity get brought up, but with all these articles about how the 'evil dudebro gamers' are dying off and how gaming will become more diverse and move forward as a medium (and how that's a good thing) have made me wonder:

Is this a good thing, for me? From where I'm standing, all diversity in gaming has brought us is shit like Gone Home. How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam? How is this a good thing exactly?
In short, to me; yes. Diversity will help with games because simply put, there are many things in life that white dudes just don't have to face. Women, LGBT, African-Americans, etc. face their own set of unique problems and tribulations throughout life that we can't truly understand without experiencing it first-hand. And to ignore those problems would be to ignore a slew of potential stories that could be told throughout the games.

While I can't say much about Gone Home, I can say a good example of a diverse cast maybe the Walking Dead Telltale games. Their diversity withing the game is not done overboard. The main character IS black. Clementine IS a little girl. And thats about it. I think maybe what the diversity needs is to stop being simply "a black guy bang not racist", or making non straight white males act like their only personality trait is their melanin levels or what form of genitalia they have or enjoy, and then boom! You'll have access to those great games you want, and then even more lines of story than "white guy shooting stuff"
 

wadark

New member
Dec 22, 2007
397
0
0
Genocidicles said:
Normally I'm one to just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend everything is fine when discussions about diversity get brought up, but with all these articles about how the 'evil dudebro gamers' are dying off and how gaming will become more diverse and move forward as a medium (and how that's a good thing) have made me wonder:

Is this a good thing, for me? From where I'm standing, all diversity in gaming has brought us is shit like Gone Home. How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam? How is this a good thing exactly?
Its not that unrepresented peoples positions are "better", just that they're different. IT is undeniable FACT that women, african americans, gays, transgenders, pretty much any 'minority' has a life experience that is different from 'straight, white male'. That doesn't mean they're more important, but bringing that diversity to the table can only be good. Its not as if the Nathan Drake's and others will go away, but to have others represented fairly, and more in line with the actual demographics of 'gamers' (yes even so-called 'core gamers'), is right and good for all.

And if all you want to do is curl up and play CoD, that option will surely remain.
 

Inglorious891

New member
Dec 17, 2011
274
0
0
Dragonlayer said:
EDIT

Hell, I've just been enjoying the hell out of gaming diversity come to think of it: walking a fine path between conquest and extinction as a outnumbered and surrounded ninja clan in Shogun 2, destroying families and shattering dreams as a cog in the brutally uncaring totalitarian state in Papers, Please, stubbornly clawing my way to a bloody victory over the Communist hordes in Company of Heroes 2 and crying my eyes out in The Walking Dead: Season Two.
I don't think you realize how "diversity" works in gaming. It isn't games about different people with different cultures, it's about how many minorites in women you can have in your game when your game takes place in predominantly white countries. So Shogun II, Paper's Please, and CoH2 don't count since they either take place in mostly white parts of the world with little to no minorities and women, or take place in countries completey comprised of another race.

I really, REALLY wish I was kidding with this but since mostly people react to "diversity" with the idea that it's removing white men from media and not the actual definition of diversity where you have that aformentioned different people from different cultures (even if those cultures are in Europe).

i have the sinking feeling I'm going to get banned with this comment
 

Dragonlayer

Aka Corporal Yakob
Dec 5, 2013
971
0
0
Inglorious891 said:
Dragonlayer said:
EDIT

Hell, I've just been enjoying the hell out of gaming diversity come to think of it: walking a fine path between conquest and extinction as a outnumbered and surrounded ninja clan in Shogun 2, destroying families and shattering dreams as a cog in the brutally uncaring totalitarian state in Papers, Please, stubbornly clawing my way to a bloody victory over the Communist hordes in Company of Heroes 2 and crying my eyes out in The Walking Dead: Season Two.
I don't think you realize how "diversity" works in gaming. It isn't games about different people with different cultures, it's about how many minorites in women you can have in your game when your game takes place in predominantly white countries. So Shogun II, Paper's Please, and CoH2 don't count since they either take place in mostly white parts of the world with little to no minorities and women, or take place in countries completey comprised of another race.

I really, REALLY wish I was kidding with this but since mostly people react to "diversity" with the idea that it's removing white men from media and not the actual definition of diversity where you have that aformentioned different people from different cultures (even if those cultures are from in Europe).

i have the sinking feeling I'm going to get banned with this comment
I fully understand how "diversity" works in gaming, that's why I specifically said "diversity in gaming genres and the such". In light of the current context, I felt it was more helpful to post a positive comment about the hobby we enjoy instead of being drawn into the screaming match on one side or another. Plus it was a deliberate choice to avoid walking into the trap set by the OP of assuming diversity can only mean increased non-white character participation.

And while you make an excellent closing point, those three games you highlighted *do* contain a multitude of ethnic minorities and women: ethnic Japanese, Dutch, Portuguese, French, British, American in Shogun, a variety of Eastern European/Asian analogues of multiple gender identities for P,P and Germans, Russians, Ukrainians and women of various USSR identity in COH.
 

Bagged Milk

New member
Jan 5, 2011
380
0
0
Iunno, just imagine growing up with games and never ever seeing anyone who looks or acts like you. How the hero in every game kills people who look like you. imagine how you would feel if you had no one to look up to who could relate to you, who could assure you that even though you're the way you are, you can still be radical as hell and not the punching bag.

Imagine you're an adult and those kids who were like the hero, the hero who beat up people like you, are adults too.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/How-Guardians-Galaxy-Taught-Kid-With-Autism-Superhero-66981.html
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

New member
Apr 30, 2009
768
0
0
It's about becoming a productive citizen who respects the rights of marginalized groups. Is it so wrong to become a well adjusted person?
 

Ihateregistering1

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,034
0
0
Genocidicles said:
Normally I'm one to just stick my fingers in my ears and pretend everything is fine when discussions about diversity get brought up, but with all these articles about how the 'evil dudebro gamers' are dying off and how gaming will become more diverse and move forward as a medium (and how that's a good thing) have made me wonder:

Is this a good thing, for me? From where I'm standing, all diversity in gaming has brought us is shit like Gone Home. How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam? How is this a good thing exactly?
No one needs to convince you of anything. What you like is what you like. Assuming you're an adult and have tried a wide variety of games, you're smart enough to know what you like and what you don't.

If playing as a black feminist jewish lesbian gets you incredibly excited, then 'more diversity' probably works in your favor. If you couldn't give two shits about that, then it probably doesn't affect you one way or the other.

In other words, you need not be convinced of anything. You know what you like and what you want to play, so play what you want to play and don't play what you don't want to play, it's really not too complex beyond that.
 

Inglorious891

New member
Dec 17, 2011
274
0
0
Dragonlayer said:
Inglorious891 said:
Dragonlayer said:
EDIT

Hell, I've just been enjoying the hell out of gaming diversity come to think of it: walking a fine path between conquest and extinction as a outnumbered and surrounded ninja clan in Shogun 2, destroying families and shattering dreams as a cog in the brutally uncaring totalitarian state in Papers, Please, stubbornly clawing my way to a bloody victory over the Communist hordes in Company of Heroes 2 and crying my eyes out in The Walking Dead: Season Two.
I don't think you realize how "diversity" works in gaming. It isn't games about different people with different cultures, it's about how many minorites in women you can have in your game when your game takes place in predominantly white countries. So Shogun II, Paper's Please, and CoH2 don't count since they either take place in mostly white parts of the world with little to no minorities and women, or take place in countries completey comprised of another race.

I really, REALLY wish I was kidding with this but since mostly people react to "diversity" with the idea that it's removing white men from media and not the actual definition of diversity where you have that aformentioned different people from different cultures (even if those cultures are from in Europe).

i have the sinking feeling I'm going to get banned with this comment
I fully understand how "diversity" works in gaming, that's why I specifically said "diversity in gaming genres and the such". In light of the current context, I felt it was more helpful to post a positive comment about the hobby we enjoy instead of being drawn into the screaming match on one side or another. Plus it was a deliberate choice to avoid walking into the trap set by the OP of assuming diversity can only mean increased non-white character participation.

And while you make an excellent closing point, those three games you highlighted *do* contain a multitude of ethnic minorities and women: ethnic Japanese, Dutch, Portuguese, French, British, American in Shogun, a variety of Eastern European/Asian analogues of multiple gender identities for P,P and Germans, Russians, Ukrainians and women of various USSR identity in COH.
Again, you make the critical error of realizing diversity includes white people. I'll give you Paper's, Please because of the Asian countries, but Shogun II doesn't count due to all of the "diversity" being white men, and CoH2... ok, I've never played CoH2 but seeing as it's a WW2 militarty shooter I doubt there are enough women to satisfy most people who clamor for "diversity" in gaming, and I highly doubt there are any non-white minorities.


[small]Don't ask me why I'm still talking about this; I honestly don't know why.[/small]
 

DestinyCall

New member
May 5, 2009
103
0
0
Oh silly straight male gamer. It's so cute how you think your opinion matters.

Diversity isn't for you. It's for all the OTHER people out there.

Don't you think you have enough games designed just for you?
 

CymbaIine

New member
Aug 23, 2013
168
0
0
Don't you, as a straight male gamer, find those pixels with massive barely covered waps patronizing? I've never found scantily clad electronic eye candy offensive but I have often wondered why men don't.

I tried playing a few "Mum" games recently, those ones where you find a list of objects to solve the mystery. It's the first time I have played games where I was smack bang in the target audience. For some reason these games tend to have cute* little animals in them and you can earn points in the game to dress them up and buy cute little accessories like feeding bowls and stuff (all uses of the word "cute" are sarcastic). I found that faaaaaaar more offensive than any AAA game I have played, "oh our target is older women, must make cute shiny thing to keep her interested".

Diversity is good because it means developers can't rely so much on niche tricks like bigs boobs or cute accessories to sell their products.
 

AVATAR_RAGE

New member
May 28, 2009
1,120
0
0
To put this in the most base way possible, diversity in games will bring out a greater variety of games. In addition to the variety there is also the potential for a greater variety of themes.

Diversity means variety and variety is good. That is all that needs to be said.
 

razer17

New member
Feb 3, 2009
2,518
0
0
Genocidicles said:
AccursedTheory said:
Gone Home? You mean the game with an 86/100 on MetaCritic?
'Not my cup of tea' does not mean 'crappy.'
Yeah, and a 5.4 user score. I think I'd rather trust the users than journalists trying to look hip and progressive.
The user score probably comes from plebs zero bombing it, without having played it. It's not progressive to be okay with diversity, it's the fucking norm now. Get used to it.

As for your original question: You are not the only gamer. Men aren't the only gamers. Diversity doesn't have to be justified to you, because you are not important. Who cares what you do or do not want to play? If other people do, the games will be made.
 

CymbaIine

New member
Aug 23, 2013
168
0
0
BinDipper said:
The amount of smug sarcasm in this thread is enough to put someone off diversity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who advocates for more black characters, or more female characters, isn't actually interested in diversity, they are only interested in their own selfish representation.

If you want to genuinely support diversity in video games then you have to want more character creation systems in video games.

Anything less is political bullshit.
I don't give a toss about character creation and I am not sure why anybody else would either.

It's not about advocating for black or female characters it's about asking why they aren't there in the first place. The answer is that games are targeted at young (15 - 35) white straight males. Targeting like that is bad for the consumer it means less diversity in game play and mechanics, it means fear of trying anything new. They come up with a list of things they think young straight white men like - boobs, blood etc and stick to that.
 

Genocidicles

New member
Sep 13, 2012
1,747
0
0
TheKasp said:
Genocidicles said:
How is dumbing games down so that more women can play them a good thing exactly?
Well, diversity in gaming could help eliminate such opinions like this. I don't see how accepting that women are gamers too leads to dumbed down games.
Jesus Christ, how many times do I need to explain this?

I personally do not believe that games need to be dumbed down to cater to women. But if you read the article I linked in my comment you quoted, you will see that Anita Sarkeesian does.

She's an idiot, yes... But the thing is, game developers (in that case, Dice) are actually listening to her. She holds more clout in the industry than the female gamers who don't need their games to be dumbed down. So games might end up being dumbed down so they can attract female gamers, regardless of whether or not they actually needed to be dumbed down.