I'm a straight male gamer, convince me diversity in games is a good thing

mecegirl

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KazeAizen said:
Genocidicles said:
I admit, diversity is going to do nothing for the CoD Twitch Lord. But for people who give two shits about immersion, characterization, and storyline, diversification of characters opens up gaming to something beyond 'Bro shoots other bros for country/place to put penis.'
Well surely that's a matter of writing, not diversity?
Actually you'd be wrong on that. I'm not sure about you but as it stands when I go out just to hang out or run errands I run into people of various ethnic backgrounds as well as both genders. For the games that like to tout "realism" having both genders and multiple races beyond the token black guy is as real as it comes.

Seriously though if you can't see the net positives of diversification then I think you actually need to rethink your priorities in life. You want to know how it can be a positive? Different styles of stories. Especially if those stories are set in the "real world". Like for instance a shooter during the civil war but from the perspective of a black man. That's going to be a totally different game than if it were from the perspective of just another white dude. It also could be very meaningful.
Exactly. The writing would be influenced by the diversity. While individuals are not completely defined by their race, sexuality, or gender, there are times where those factors could completely change the story being told. Just as in your example. Or even if a story was told from the viewpoint of someone who wasn't from a Western culture at all. If done authentically it could add something very unique to the story because different cultures have different values.

A character's race could possibly matter little in a futuristic setting. It's just odd when humans aren't diverse because the current population of the earth. Unless we assume that everyone who wasn't White were killed in some way, statistically it just doesn't make sense to have the majority of humans in a far off future to be White. At the very least there would be a larger concentration of Asians, and at best a lot of people would be biracial (and not necessary half White either).
 

IamLEAM1983

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Genocidicles said:
But that's the thing, diversity just seems to be leading to easy crap that anyone could play. If it meant more strategy games, more roguelikes, more RPGS and whatever then great! But from what I've seen, all it has given us is walking simulators and shitty point and click adventures.
Ever played this little thing called Skyrim? You can mod gay marriages into the game. It doesn't make it any less of an awesome pseudo-Viking adventure that's filled with 98% asskicking and 2% of arrow-in-knee content. Or how about Borderlands 2? Sir Hammerlock is gay, and at no point does the game force that fact on you.

You're working off the assumption that gaming is heading down some sort of road where there won't be anything left but Dear Esther clones or Depression Quest-alikes. I'm sorry, but judging on the pre-order numbers for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare, your conclusions are a bit off.

Compare gaming to cooking in general, if you will. We're discovering the pleasures of 'Nouvelle Cuisine'-type approaches, but it's not because gaming is metaphorically going apeshit over its first few carpaccios and other dishes crammed with forty dollars-per-pound parmesan cheese that it's forgetting the meat and potatoes.

Guiltless shooting galleries will always have their place, as will the sports games, as will everything else that currently qualifies as mainstream. The eeeevil feminists and other (gasp!) SENSITIVE types aren't after your games. We're just discovering more of the medium's potential.
 

Rabbitboy

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Genocidicles said:
I guess what I'm trying to say is why care about user ratings when they all say "I hated the story" or "this doesn't fit my idea of a game," which is what so many complained about with Gone Home. Those are subjective opinions only. If the reviews all say the game is broken, buggy, glitchy, or unplayable, that's a different story.
Well surely the 'proper' reviews are purely subjective too?
That's correct but usually they explain why they didn't like the story or why it doesnt fit their idea of a game.

Now Gone Home is something I probably wouldn't enjoy as well, but you know there are people who do like that kind of stuff.
 

Razuli

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IamLEAM1983 said:
Ever played this little thing called Skyrim? You can mod gay marriages into the game. It doesn't make it any less of an awesome pseudo-Viking adventure that's filled with 98% asskicking and 2% of arrow-in-knee content.
Gay marriage is in the base game of skyrim without modding, and just like with any marriage no one even mentions it again other than your spouse.
 
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A couple of things, as much as I am a fan of diversity in games, you can have a game of all straight white males without it having to be Call of Duty or a "dudebro" game. Painting not caring about diversity as only wanting to play military shooters in various shades of brown is kind of disingenious.

However, on the other hand... Maybe it isn't about you OP? This strikes me as obvious a question as "Why should I care about people starving in Africa? I have plenty to eat." Before the horde of people jump on me accusing me of comparing famine to lack of diversity in games, no, I am not saying they're comparable in magnitude at all. I'm saying the reason why you should care for both is the same, basic empathy. You're getting what you want, but maybe that's not all that should matter?

Also, you seem to be under the impression that diversification goes hand in hand with low budget artsy indie games. There's a good reason why at the moment it does. Because AAA games are still terrified of showing more than token minorities. They're putting millions of dollars into these games, and they don't want to risk their profit. Frankly, large amounts of the gaming population are giving them every reason to believe that this is the case. The more diversity you show in a game the more people you'll have accusing the game of trying to be SJW bait, or trying to appeal to the devil itself, feminists.

Because of this, the majority of the people who try to have a little diversity in their games are those with small budgets. If more straight white guys care about diversity in games, or at least don't resist its inclusion, then you won't have to dig through indies to find it
 

Spearmaster

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Diversity in games is not a bad thing, nor is it a good thing, its just a thing.

We are really doing a disservice to the industry by focusing on the diversity of a game rather than focusing on making the game industry inclusive so that anyone can be free to make the games they want to make and that consumers have easy access to those games, the free market will sort out the rest. This way instead of people fighting over games there will simply be more games of a wider variety for everyone to enjoy.

Right now the fighting seems to be more over the AAA market. Sadly the AAA market is full of corporate paper pushers and those games are going to follow the models of whatever their market research determined to generate bigger profit, whether diverse or not.

Personally I like gender/race neutral games or more fantasy/sci-fi selections, mainly due to the fact that I find realistic stories drab and beneath the medium. I don't have a problem with those stories existing but IMO gaming is wasted on them. If realistic human stories are your thing, stick to books and film. Gaming is just to fantastic of a medium, so limitless in possibility, to be held down by something so...mundane.
 

Reaper195

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Do you want to play the exact same character in every single game? Becasue that's how you get the exact same character in every single game.

I don't care if a character is white, black, Spanish, female or gay. But I'm incredibly bored of the brown haired guy that saves everyone and bangs the woman. I'm in the minority that has never played a Mass Effect game as male Sheppard, and prefer Jennifer Hale's voice over Meers'.
 

AwesomeDave

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To the people bringing games like BF or CoD or GoW into this....

If you're talking about the campaign modes needing some fresh faces fine... although in Black Ops 2 the Admiral in charge of your unit is a black guy, one of your commonly-used squad members is latino, the expert hacker you need for your side is a cyberpunk-ish woman.... and sexuality isn't really going to be a factor for a soldier who's out on a mission. Yes, the majority of the main characters are mid 20s to late 30s males... but that's kind of a reality in Special Forces Units. Not supporting it, just putting it out there.

Moving on to the MP, CoD Ghosts gives the option of male and female characters, and skin options to represent pretty much every race. Not that it matters, character models are hardly visible in the MP of a FPS unless you go for a melee kill. in the multiplayer mode of almost any game that isn't an RPG, race/gender is for appearance only. There's no time in a MP match that may last 10-20 minutes to develop a character, and there shouldn't be... you're basically playing the role of "Soldier #3348283" until you die, when you become "Soldier 33348284". Sexuality is even further away. How would they fit that in? I suppose through your character's dialogue, but I don't see how other than your gay male character saying something like "Oh Nooooo" like that Family Guy character... but it's insulting to think all gay men talk in an effeminate manor, so I don't see that being a good option.

I support the idea of giving options to appeal to everyone in games where character development is a main part of the game, although people have to be reasonable in their expectations. They can't program the game to be able to handle every single potential aspect of the human experience.
 

Trunkage

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Well, you don't have to be interested in diversity. Here's what happens if you are...

During the 50s, many college students were coming home to their parents saying that society (American) was being racist. I could go through many reasons but one example was segregation. The parents of these children didn't understand. Not because they were racist but because why would you put yourself in another person shoes.

You see they were told what to do, what to think and how to do their jobs. They were only to think about themselves and their job. IMO, the same situation applies here. We wont understand another person point of view until we try to walk in their shoes. Much of this 'hatred to women (/casual/pc/console/dudebro) gamers' comes from only being interest in yourself.

Telltales Walking Dead series is a product of diversity. A black man NOT being a gang member (as you see in almost all other games). A teenage girl becoming a violent survivalist. It strange to say that it has taken his long to break some stereotypes.

I really don't like God or Gear of War, COD, Rainbow 6 etc. because their only point is killing. But I try not to critise them as, when coupled with diversity, they brought me Spec Ops: The Line. I see the gaming industry now like the movies industry coming out of the 80s. Many people realised that most of the 80s action movies were vapid experiences. The audience wanted more. But that not with growing pains to something better (see most 90s movies and compare that to the MCU now). You don't know how games like Gone Home will impact your own experience many years down the track.

Also Gone Home is the only diversity game you can think of? There are plenty, but another good example would be the Metro 2033 as it has Russian in a non-antagonist role.
 

Trunkage

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Reaper195 said:
Do you want to play the exact same character in every single game? Becasue that's how you get the exact same character in every single game.

I don't care if a character is white, black, Spanish, female or gay. But I'm incredibly bored of the brown haired guy that saves everyone and bangs the woman. I'm in the minority that has never played a Mass Effect game as male Sheppard, and prefer Jennifer Hale's voice over Meers'.
I totally agree. She was so much better than Meer. If you haven't tried at lest play ME2 and 3 with her voicing. Its great.
 

Trunkage

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bishopzz said:
I don't worry about things like diversity in gaming. I mean if an industry and it's consumers are mostly white, straight and male, who would you guess most of the protagonists are going to be? Even so, there are still a fair amount of protagonists that don't have all of those characteristics.

A lot of people are using the black guy from The Walking Dead games as an example of diversity, but it's only skin deep. If that character were white it would make little difference. I think we need to really show a different prospective, I'm thinking radical Islam. What if the playable character was the leader of a terrorist group with the goal of causing the death of as many infidels as possible. Wait, you find that offensive? You say that every reputable retailer would boycott that game? Oh my, the FBI tapped my cell phone. Well, I guess it was an idea worth throwing out there.
Yes what you say about Lee is the truth AND THAT IS THE POINT. I don't know if you know this but not all black guys are in a gang. But that's pretty much what every game portrays black men as. Lee is an average guy. You know, how everyone black man is generally like every white one.
 

Pinkamena

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Why are people falling for threads like these.
Can you really not see it for what it is?
 

bishopzz

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trunkage said:
bishopzz said:
I don't worry about things like diversity in gaming. I mean if an industry and it's consumers are mostly white, straight and male, who would you guess most of the protagonists are going to be? Even so, there are still a fair amount of protagonists that don't have all of those characteristics.

A lot of people are using the black guy from The Walking Dead games as an example of diversity, but it's only skin deep. If that character were white it would make little difference. I think we need to really show a different prospective, I'm thinking radical Islam. What if the playable character was the leader of a terrorist group with the goal of causing the death of as many infidels as possible. Wait, you find that offensive? You say that every reputable retailer would boycott that game? Oh my, the FBI tapped my cell phone. Well, I guess it was an idea worth throwing out there.
Yes what you say about Lee is the truth AND THAT IS THE POINT. I don't know if you know this but not all black guys are in a gang. But that's pretty much what every game portrays black men as. Lee is an average guy. You know, how everyone black man is generally like every white one.
My point is Lee's race doesn't test the players ability to sympathize with him. I think a cultural difference is more interesting or at least a different perspective than usual. The most thing for me is rather or not a character is interesting and I believe I'm capable of sympathizing with a character regardless of race, sex or sexual orientation .
 

KazeAizen

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mecegirl said:
KazeAizen said:
Genocidicles said:
I admit, diversity is going to do nothing for the CoD Twitch Lord. But for people who give two shits about immersion, characterization, and storyline, diversification of characters opens up gaming to something beyond 'Bro shoots other bros for country/place to put penis.'
Well surely that's a matter of writing, not diversity?
Actually you'd be wrong on that. I'm not sure about you but as it stands when I go out just to hang out or run errands I run into people of various ethnic backgrounds as well as both genders. For the games that like to tout "realism" having both genders and multiple races beyond the token black guy is as real as it comes.

Seriously though if you can't see the net positives of diversification then I think you actually need to rethink your priorities in life. You want to know how it can be a positive? Different styles of stories. Especially if those stories are set in the "real world". Like for instance a shooter during the civil war but from the perspective of a black man. That's going to be a totally different game than if it were from the perspective of just another white dude. It also could be very meaningful.
Exactly. The writing would be influenced by the diversity. While individuals are not completely defined by their race, sexuality, or gender, there are times where those factors could completely change the story being told. Just as in your example. Or even if a story was told from the viewpoint of someone who wasn't from a Western culture at all. If done authentically it could add something very unique to the story because different cultures have different values.

A character's race could possibly matter little in a futuristic setting. It's just odd when humans aren't diverse because the current population of the earth. Unless we assume that everyone who wasn't White were killed in some way, statistically it just doesn't make sense to have the majority of humans in a far off future to be White. At the very least there would be a larger concentration of Asians, and at best a lot of people would be biracial (and not necessary half White either).
And you idea brought to mind a great satirical game at the expense of racists, white nationalists, and the like. A story of what happens when our world loses its diversity entirely.
 

Reaper195

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trunkage said:
Reaper195 said:
Do you want to play the exact same character in every single game? Becasue that's how you get the exact same character in every single game.

I don't care if a character is white, black, Spanish, female or gay. But I'm incredibly bored of the brown haired guy that saves everyone and bangs the woman. I'm in the minority that has never played a Mass Effect game as male Sheppard, and prefer Jennifer Hale's voice over Meers'.
I totally agree. She was so much better than Meer. If you haven't tried at lest play ME2 and 3 with her voicing. Its great.
Probably her best voice acting EVER was in ME3. Dat ending.
 

someonehairy-ish

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How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam?

Like Mass Effect, for example?
 

Lunar Templar

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Pinkamena said:
Why are people falling for threads like these.
Can you really not see it for what it is?
But but but, it's ultra super important we convince him of how its a good thing.

Even though if he has to ask, there's already no point in even trying, and no one on the internet posting on some random forum will change how he thinks.

But hey, least its not another thread focusing on some nontroversy ... again ...
 

krazykidd

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No. Because if you are playing a game for the gender, sexyality or skin color of a character, you are doing it wrong.

That and diversity in media just means stereotypical. I HATED playig as the franklin in GTA5. Or the black guy in san adreas
 

Jolly Co-operator

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Why should we have to convince you in the first place? Diversity is also for the benefit of other groups, not just straight white males.