I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk here (and every where else on the internet)

[Quadocky]

You wanna know one of my biggest annoyances when talking to feminists online?

Patriarchy and rape culture.

Their definitions are vague, unfalsifiable and most of the time I've seen them used is as a cop out to justify double standards, or just as a way to make whatever they're complaining about sound extra terrible (example: these ads are patriarchal in nature, this game supports rape culture).

Patriarchy in particular just seems like it's used as a giant boogeyman scapegoat for all the world's woes.

Patriarchy is just once subset, there are more. Its just the most relevant.

Rape culture is pretty much anything that supports the removal of sexual sovereignty. Whether it be making light of rape, or justifying it through terribly misguided thinking (blaming the victim, etc)

 

[averydeeadaccount]

Spoiler

Yes, it's from 4chan. If you counter it by simply saying "It's from 4chan" you have no good argument, and you're doing exactly the same thing this thread's complaining about.

Whilst I don't fully agree men are being oppressed, they are still facing a lot of sexism that just isn't focused on because women's rights are seen as much more important in the fight for gender equality. Gender equality has become an un-equal fight, with people insulting or laughing in the face of any man who wishes to say he might be a little down-trodden.

I was going to list all the statistics I knew that showed how women were better treated in today's society them men, but not only did you beat me to it, you did a far better job. Bravo. None of the laws in government that are unfairly against men are being protested against because for a man to fight for their rights is considered insane by people like the OP.

 

[Spinozaad]

And I'm tired of feminist White Knights. Seems we're both tired of something.

But I'm sure this'll be interpreted as evidence of the "Patriarchy" or "rape culture." Really though, the "I'm a feminist, I'm sophisticated, LoL!"-spiel of The Escapist is getting rather tiresome. No, you're not. You're a teenager.

Granddad's getting his coffee now.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I know for a fact that there are feminists who think females are better than males, or at the very least would rather live in a society where that was the assumption.

I know for a fact there are people who think Titanic is the greatest achievement in the history of cinema.

But that doesn't mean such people need to be counted as representative of a movement. Until you have evidence that the feminists who think females are better than males make up a majority of feminists, or objective evidence that shows they dominate feminist discussions, then your point is irrelevant.

'Mankind' is a perfectly usable word to describe humanity, the human race, and happens to be a syllable shorter than 'humankind'.

Perfectly usable, yes. Equivalent, no. "Mankind" has it's place, and increasingly it's place is when you want to evoke a backwards or at least male-centered notion of humanity. However if you want to use language to exclude women from the discussion and write off objection to your language choices as "trivial", be tough enough to accept the consequence of people criticizing you for it.

My point isn't irrelevant because [whatever point that may be] isn't addressing all of feminism. Nothing I've said, I'm pretty sure, is against the moderate feminists who undoubtedly make up the majority of all feminists and who focus on real problems and for whom gender equality is a goal and not a stepping stone. I don't think the feminists I've described are representative, and furthermore, I don't think most...'anti-feminists'...have a problem with most feminists.

Mankind has evolved to havwe a duality of meanings. It has long since become equivalent to humankind, with no implication that men are running the show when you refer to it unless you use it deliberately in that fashion. I could be pretentious and quote a dictionary but I won't. When common sense is applied, mankind is used as a substitute for humankind, with exactly the same meaning, in most cases. Sure, people have the right to criticise me for my choice of words, but I see it as petty to condemn the use of a word over a meaning that isn't intended. What I see that approach as equivalent to is condemning the use of actors playing parts which are not their natural race because of the history of that practice being used to prevent jobs being given to minorities, regardless of the intent behind it (Cloud Atlas), and I think it's a shame that people waste their time creating controversy over these things. If I want to be particularly unambiguous, or particularly mindful of the person I'm talking to, I may use 'humankind' instead, but I am not obligated to do so and most people are sensible enough to know which meaning I intend, the other being archaic.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

Ugh, I hate these kind of threads, as all they seem to do is bring out the worst in people and strawman arguments abound on both sides. All feminists are apparently in favor of reducing all things masculine down to nothing and those that aren't feminist are portrayed as misogynistic pigmen. Both sides have very valid points and both sides seem to take equally flawed stances in regards to video games.

 

[alandavidson]

It's rather odd that nobody seems to be discussing my point about the amazing atheist not causing a huge controversy for these comments;

BTW, you have to admit, when I told you that I hope you drown in rape semen, you got a little wet, didn?t you? It?s okay. We?re friends now. You can share.

Fuck you, liar. All night you douches have tried to shit on me and tear me down. Then when I do the same it?s like, ?Whoa man! That?s too far. Calm down.? No. Fuck you. Go get raped in whatever orifice you have to get fucking raped in. I am sick of your shit. I regret nothing.

I?m pretty sure I could rape you without getting killed if it was really on my agenda. I mean, you didn?t kill the first guy, right?

I felt physically sick reading these comments, but a female gamer being alienated by the medium's lack of good female characters is WAY WORSE. The Appalling Asshole was bigger than Anita Sarkeesian prior to the controversy, but it was Anita that got all the flak. Even worse, almost no youtube comments on TJ's videos seem to mention his reprehensible misogynistic meltdown on reddit, especially comments praising his views on feminism. This person's hatred of feminism is not rational. His reddit comments prove that he has nothing but vile hatred for women, yet we can trust this man's views on gender issues?

The Amazing Atheist is a raging asshole who has severe anger issues.

Anita Sarkeesian is a lousy researcher and grasps at straws to make her arguments.

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I don't like either of them. But here's a cool concept that I do like:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

It's the "Golden Rule" and almost every religion has a version of it, meaning that it's a universal "don't be an asshole" policy that pretty much everyone thinks is important. Let's just go by that.

 

[Abomination]

I may use 'humankind' instead, but I am not obligated to do so and most people are sensible enough to know which meaning I intend, the other being archaic.

Yeah you would use "huMANkind" because you're obviously incapable of understanding just how much that continues to promote the constant opression of women and promotion of men in our society.

You're also clearly a privileged teenage boy.

And contributing to rape culture.

And every other potential insult one could think of because you do not agree 100% with a particular branch of feminisim your debate opponent happens to hold.

 

[asinann]

I have no problem with feminists, unfortunately for them the most vocal "feminists" are the feminazis. Feminists want equality for all: feminazis want to pay men back for "thousands of years of slavery."

I'm all for equality, real equality. If a woman does the same job as a man, pay her the same (and I don't mean just holds the same job title, but does the same job.) Right now men are EXPECTED to work overtime, skip major family events, travel whenever the company needs it and do extremely demanding physical jobs (that honestly,many women are incapable of: you don't see many women able to lift 200lbs over and over for 12 hours.)

All of those things I just mentioned are optional for women.

Equality is good, but the vocal part of the feminist movement doesn't want equality and until those voices are silenced the whole group will be derided as raving lunatics.

 

[Xaio30]

I just think "Feminist" is a stupid term for people who want gender equality.

 

[Abomination]

I just think "Feminist" is a stupid term for people who want gender equality.

But the dictionary says it's about gender equality!

But using the term "mankind" is wrong as a method of encompassing the entire species despite being used for years.

Of course very few will acknowledge the double standards there.

 

[Sandjube]

I believe in equality. That's why I hate BOTH feminists and chauvinists.

 

[Twilight_guy]

If someone has a misconception of something, you do not yell at them for not being knowledgeable, you calmly explain the truth of the situation. If they refuse to listen, it is their loss and their choice. If you are right, then they are wrong regardless so what they are saying doesn't matter, they are wrong. Find a good feminist website (shouldn't be hard) and link it where people are talking out there ass about feminism and hope they actually learn something. (not likely as often this is willful ignorance rather then simply no knowing what is right)

 

[Giftfromme]

It seems that every place I go on the internet, there's someone that says, "I believe in gender equality, but I don't like feminists."

Welcome to the world of privileged teenage boys.

I wouldn't get too upset about them. One day we'll look back at such people with the same combination of quaint amusement and awkward embarrassment we feel when we think of the people who came before us who insisted that women were unsuitable for daily work or learning math. "They are a dying people. We should let them pass."

It must be comforting to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you in such a way.

Heaven forbid your beliefs be challenged by someone.

@Father Time. I have read your posts in this thread and I must say I enjoyed them greatly. May you never stop posting on this forum. They're hilariously written while also having a point. Well done sir.

 

[Supertegwyn]

Sexualization isn't sexism. Having a female character that is highly sexual is not even close to being sexist. Having a highly muscular man is also not sexist.
The only way you might classify that as sexist is if there is nothing BUT sexualized characters, and even then that is a stretch.

That's my two cents. Adios Amigos.

 

[Megalodon]

In today's world you can go into any profession you want in a first-world country, and yet still more males do science and engineering. But that's a larger issue than what tends to annoy me.

Random quick thing, gender representation in science massively varies in different fields. For things like maths and physics, you are right. But in more biological fields, biology, biochemistry, genetics etc., it's pretty even or even having more women than men. Not saying the overall statement "more men do science" is wrong, but a genetics seminar and a physics seminar will odds on have a completely different gender balance.

Slightly more on topic, you talk much sense in the post I quoted.

 

[chikusho]

snip

It seems that every place I go on the internet, there's someone that says, "I'm tired of the anti-feminist circlejerk here and everywhere else on the internet". A lot of these people know nothing about the critique, and just attack anti-feminists that don't exist. They attack straw men. If you're under 50 and aren't conservative, you probably shouldn't believe that the woman-hating rape threateners are a significant portion of anti-feminists.

 

[Jenvas1306]

simple thing: steroetyping.
everyone on the internet has an opinion about everything and most of those opinions are less than qualified.
there are feminists who arent really for equality, who even have some men-hate going on. Those are only those who stand out the most and therefor make an impression the easiest, that is never a good base for made-up knowledge.

I dont support feminists, cause I dont believe there is much you can actually fight for and most just needs to change in the heads of people. Also, enough feminist groups wouldnt want me and opress people like me...

 

[IamQ]

We need a separate forum for gender topics, gun controll and video game politics.

 

[manic_depressive13]

That makes sense. People on a forum that consists of 90% men arguing that feminism doesn't need to exist.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I hardly think there's an anti-feminist circle-jerk on these forums. There are plenty of...I don't know, I guess you'd call them anti-anti-feminists because sometimes it's hard to call them feminists when they all hold such disparate views. Several have piled into this very thread!

In fact, I think if there is circle-jerking going on, it's twofold. The anti-anti-feminists jack each other off just as much as the anti-feminists. Neither one is particularly dominant.

The whole thing is pretty dumb anyway.