In defence of the 'Friendzoned'

[thewatergamer]

I just don't get the...well...the claims that the 'Friendzone' doesn't exist.

For far as I can tell, it's just modern parlance for the phrase 'unrequiteded love'. You care about someone, you're happy when you're around them, you miss them when they're gone, you make excusses to spend as much time as possible with them; you want to take it further, but they don't. So far as they're concerned; you're a friend and nothing more.

I see nothing predatory or dehumanizing about being sad and frustrated about that.

This is what it means to most of us. Then some assholes decided to use it as an accusation, and that's apparently reason enough to eject the term wholesale on the say-so of people who think they can alter reality if they're just offended hard enough.

Pretty much.

Unrequited love becomes the 'friendzone' when douchebags think they're somehow entitled to romantic affection, as if someone couldn't reject them 'because they're such nice guys.'

In which they're totally wrong. There's nothing wrong about being frustrated by unrequited love, but thinking that a girl should love you is plain idiotic. There's never any kind of obligation just because you're nice.

This sums up my feelings perfectly
been stuck in with "unrequited love" alot (3 times now in a row with no dates yet but who's counting?)
and it sucks and at this point I have just said screw dating because of all the heartbreak I have gotten, the thing is I actually want to have a serious romantic relationship with my friend because, well I find her personallity and the way she acts attractive, as far as I can tell nothing wrong with that,
what drives me up the wall is when frat boys or "players" that have had sex so many times that they keep score and brag about it complain about being "friend zoned"

PS: Let me elaborate I don't blame girls that I find attractive I can understand it but it still doesn't stop the rejection from stinging, but whatever their choice I can say that I can't find them at fault at all

 

[Echopunk]

I guess I have a different definition of friendzoned? Growing up, most of my friends were female. Every now and then, I'd get a crush on one of them, or vice versa. The problem was that since we were good friends, it made trying to date feel weird. We already knew a lot more about each other than most people would on a first date, and our way of relating to each other had a platonic basis because of our previous time spent together. So, not being able to get out of the friendzone, at that time, meant the relationship was just stuck at the platonic phase. For whatever reason, it was too weird to try and move forward on either person's behalf.

There is also the Big Brother Syndrome. You like someone, so you protect them, speak up for them, help take care of them, etc. They get used to you in that role. Fallout from BBS would be things like a friend only going out with you to try and make the guy she was dating/is interested in jealous enough to move in on her.

Then there are people who use people. An example would be the girl who dates you while dating someone else behind your back. The other guy happens to employ her/support her in some way, but the relationship is otherwise incomplete - lacking either physical or emotional intimacy that someone outside will provide.

Attraction comes down to chemicals.Love isn't like that line from "Self Esteem" by the Offspring. The more you suffer doesn't show how much you care. It shows how masochistic you are. If you have a close friend of the opposite gender you've gotten along with famously for years and years, yet you've never almost had sex with them (and I'm talking a hard almost here, as in "Whoa, I think I need to leave before I do something we're probably going to regret when those margaritas/jaegermeister/jack daniels wears off" or something of that type and not a fleeting touch to the abdomen at a concert or brief eye contact) then you need to forget about trying to transition the relationship into anything else.

It is easier to keep friends than partners. I have female friends I've been incredibly close with for over a decade now. Any idea how many failed relationships I've had in that time? I'm damn glad I didn't give up something that took a long time to build in exchange for something with less than a 50 percent chance of success.

 

[Vegosiux]

We all have different standards for what we find attractive. So fair enough. I just don't accept the whole 'I'm beautiful on the inside'-excuse. That might very well be, but then you'll make a perfect friend for me, not partner.

Well, there's a lot of room between "Ripped, sixpacs, manly biceps" and "foul-smelling neckbearded slob". Of course even I have standards of attractiveness, but they're flexible, and I mostly expect ladies (and gents) to look after themselves enough to stay healthy.

 

[Silverbeard]

So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.

You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.

Overall I'm just annoyed that apparently people of both genders think that it is abhorrent to care about finding someone physically attractive. 'I'm so funny and nice, so the fact that I smell bad and don't work out shouldn't matter!'.

Foul bodily odors have little to do with physical attractiveness- such a state indicates a diseased condition, aversion to personal hygiene or the physical inability to maintain cleanliness- brought on, for example, by extreme poverty. Running water really is a luxury that the developed world takes for granted. There ought to be a difference between an ugly fellow (who may or may not have impeccable hygiene) and one carved out of marble by the descendants of Michelangelo (who also may or may not have impeccable hygiene).
Working out and bodily development in general is also separate from appearance. For the record, if I had to have a mate, I'd much prefer one who could pull me from a burning car or off the edge of a cliff if those circumstances arose.
This is not to say that your approach is wrong or makes you a lesser person- but it is worth pointing out that physical attractiveness is a complicated thing.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

I think that, in certain cases, "friendzoned" is just another word for "unrequited love".

Guy loves girl. Guy professes his love. Girl doesn't return his feelings = He is a friend to her = He is in the "friend" category = He is in the "friendzone".

Or...

Girl loves guy. Girl professes her feelings. Guy doesn't return her feelings = She is a friend to him = She is in the "friend" category = She is in the "friendzone".

 

[K12]

The reason that "friendzone" is considered dodgy because of the framing of the situation.

Being "friendzoned" implies that it is the girl who is at fault for not offering up sex. People who talk about the friendzone as as place they accidentally landed themselves in (through their own low confidence, anxiety and awkwardness) is something I'm on board with.

There's often the implication of "who the fuck wants friends I wanted some god damn poontang!" in friendzone talk but if you don't make that assumption then fine, use it.

I have enough friends. What I don't have is a girlfriend. If I try to get a girlfriend and instead wind up with a regular friend (that stops interacting with me the moment I stop trying), I think its reasonable that I'm a little miffed. Not at the person in question, but at life in general. Makes you wonder what it is that's wrong with you. Or what's wrong with the world/culture. And why no one can give you a straight answer on what you're supposed to do about it.

Just saying. You act as though you're confused why someone would be disappointed at not being allowed to have any sort of intimate physical contact with another human being. You're either asexual, or incredibly obtuse.

You aren't owed sex from someone you're nice to. If you make your intentions known and she isn't interested then that's sad but it's life. If you haven't made your intentions known because you're shy then I sympathise but it's not her fault (she might be just as shy) that you haven't done it.

Both of these cases aren't really "being friendzoned" it's a case of being bad with women (or going for the wrong ones). Everyone has felt like that about themselves at one time or another (except James Bond maybe) but it's something you need to work through, don't blame her for it.

I don't honestly believe that the case where a man has made his intentions clear and the women strings him along (for selfish reasons) by being ambiguous about what she wants happens especially often. Most of the times I see a guy being treated like a doormat it's by someone already in a relationship with him.

I think most people appreciative directness (though not crudeness) much more than you might expect.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes

Not exactly on topic of the thread, but I always feel the need to point out that just because the only options a woman can give to that question are yes and no does not mean that there is a 50% chance as to which she will say. Women are not coin flips.

 

[Spearmaster]

Sex and sexual attraction are a primal thing, its coded into our genes. Throughout the centuries we have been trying to adhere all these social ideals like love, romance and chivalry to a force of nature and the wires get crossed. Then you end up with these anomalies like the "friend zone". Does it exist? Yes it does only as much as all the other ideals attached to sex do. Sex is a simple thing but a modernly defined relationship is an abomination of social rules, codes, laws, culture and the like. Society tells people what their relationship should be like and nature tells people who they are sexually attracted to and most of the time society and nature don't see eye to eye.

Guys who are mad about being friend zoned are actually mad about following societies playbook on scoring a relationship with a girl then nature foils the plan. Magazines, books, movies, advertizement and society promote all these things that are supposed to win the girl but in the end fail unless nature is on board. I can understand the frustration when a guy is attracted to a woman and rather than letting nature take its course and either be rejected or accepted, he is then thrown into societies machine and told what clothes and fragrances he needs to buy, how to have his hair, how to act, all the nice things to say and do to win her over, then after running societies gauntlet get slapped to the ground by nature, I can understand the frustration. You did all the things to make her like you, and she does, as a friend, because none of those things you did can change nature.

This is not the case every time though, there are still the macho frat types that believe that dinner and a movie is payment for sex. The difference is in weather the guy genuinely cares for the girl, in the cases where they do care lumping them into the frat guy crowd just adds insult to injury.

 

[Crimsonmonkeywar]

...

My definition is different then what is seems most define as a 'friendzone' mine is a mutual attraction with a non-mutual decision on what to do with it.

So by your definition, both people are attracted to each other, but one of them wants to remain friends while the other wants to date?

that is correct

 

[krazykidd]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes

Not exactly on topic of the thread, but I always feel the need to point out that just because the only options a woman can give to that question are yes and no does not mean that there is a 50% chance as to which she will say. Women are not coin flips.

I just ment there's two answers she can give . Yes or no . Was writing 50/50 really so offensive? Given that we are talking about hypothetical women in which no background info is given? I mean of course a personthat hates you will say no , just as a person who is really into you, will say yes ( disregarding outside factors of course).

 

[Raikas]

Working out and bodily development in general is also separate from appearance.

Eh, you've never seen an obese person lose weight or a skinny person gain and thought they looked more physically attractive afterwards? That kind of thing isn't primarily about fitness (so it's not that the people checking them out now are thinking "they could carry me out of a burning building") - people just look different when they don't look round or gaunt.

Foul bodily odors have little to do with physical attractiveness- such a state indicates a diseased condition, aversion to personal hygiene or the physical inability to maintain cleanliness- brought on, for example, by extreme poverty. Running water really is a luxury that the developed world takes for granted.

Yes, but sometimes you're in the developed world (or a privileged corner of the developing one), and so you know that the person in question has access to running water - there's a difference between someone who is unable to keep themselves clean (due to poverty, aversion due to mental illness, and so on) and someone who just refuses to wash their hair or do their laundry because of laziness or a lack of consideration to others.

 

[Silverbeard]

Working out and bodily development in general is also separate from appearance.

Eh, you've never seen an obese person lose weight or a skinny person gain and thought they looked more physically attractive afterwards? That kind of thing isn't primarily about fitness (so it's not that the people checking them out now are thinking "they could carry me out of a burning building") - people just look different when they don't look round or gaunt.

Foul bodily odors have little to do with physical attractiveness- such a state indicates a diseased condition, aversion to personal hygiene or the physical inability to maintain cleanliness- brought on, for example, by extreme poverty. Running water really is a luxury that the developed world takes for granted.

Yes, but sometimes you're in the developed world (or a privileged corner of the developing one), and so you know that the person in question has access to running water - there's a difference between someone who is unable to keep themselves clean (due to poverty, aversion due to mental illness, and so on) and someone who just refuses to wash their hair or do their laundry because of laziness or a lack of consideration to others.

I will admit that, in all my limited years, I have not seen an obese person become thin (or at least of a healthy weight)- except on television programs and advertisements and the like.
Or perhaps we are thinking of different things: when I hear 'obese', I think of one who is incapable of moving without mechanical assistance. Maybe you have a different image.
I have seen many people- men and women- become more physically fit after a period of regimented exercise but none of them have looked more physically attractive afterwards. Oddly shaped faces, for example, will always be oddly shaped. Cross-eyed folks will not lose that trait, no matter how hard they work. We all make do with what we are born with and exercise, or a lack thereof, does not change that.

The poverty example was just that- an example. Extreme hydrophobia, as another example, can physically prevent people from showering or just bathing at all. And surely a well-sculpted fellow who refuses to maintain personal cleanliness will be just as repulsive as a trollishly ugly fellow who is always perfectly groomed?

My base point is that physical attractiveness, body odor and personal fitness are all separate things- one can score well on all three, or on a few, or on none at all.

 

[Hattingston]

I think that, in certain cases, "friendzoned" is just another word for "unrequited love".

Guy loves girl. Guy professes his love. Girl doesn't return his feelings = He is a friend to her = He is in the "friend" category = He is in the "friendzone".

Or...

Girl loves guy. Girl professes her feelings. Guy doesn't return her feelings = She is a friend to him = She is in the "friend" category = She is in the "friendzone".

Yes, thank you, exactly this. This is the only way I've ever heard the term friendzone be used by people offline. No blame or fault is placed on the opposite party, it's a lighter way of saying unrequited love.

The argument I see most often against that is that if that's the case just use the term "unrequited love," since it doesn't carry the same baggage. I disagree with that sentiment because unrequited love is unrequited LOVE not unrequited like, not unrequited I think you're kind of attractive. Unrequited love implies love, while friendzone only implies an ambiguous amount of feelings. Rejected doesn't work either, because rejected doesn't say anything about feelings. I could be rejected by that random person I hit on at the bar who I wanted a one night stand with. If someone says that they're friendzoned, then you know that they actually had some feelings for that person.

Friendzone also communicates that the object of the friendzoned person's interests wishes to remain friends, which can be difficult. If you have feelings for someone and you've just been rejected by them, you're going to feel a hurt, and from what I've seen, hanging out with that person while still being just friends is only going to exacerbate that. Someone who is friendzoned is probably going to want to spend some time away from that person so they can get over their feelings and then be friends with them.

I am against blaming people for not wanting a relationship, and for thinking literally anyone owes you a relationship, and all of those sorts of things. Those are bad. I think that the term friendzone can be (and in my experience is) used widely without any of that baggage attached.

 

[Echopunk]

I will admit that, in all my limited years, I have not seen an obese person become thin (or at least of a healthy weight)- except on television programs and advertisements and the like.
Or perhaps we are thinking of different things: when I hear 'obese', I think of one who is incapable of moving without mechanical assistance. Maybe you have a different image.
I have seen many people- men and women- become more physically fit after a period of regimented exercise but none of them have looked more physically attractive afterwards. Oddly shaped faces, for example, will always be oddly shaped. Cross-eyed folks will not lose that trait, no matter how hard they work. We all make do with what we are born with and exercise, or a lack thereof, does not change that.

The poverty example was just that- an example. Extreme hydrophobia, as another example, can physically prevent people from showering or just bathing at all. And surely a well-sculpted fellow who refuses to maintain personal cleanliness will be just as repulsive as a trollishly ugly fellow who is always perfectly groomed?

My base point is that physical attractiveness, body odor and personal fitness are all separate things- one can score well on all three, or on a few, or on none at all.

We're hard coded to look for certain things in our perspective mates/partners. Good teeth are a sign of health and wealth. Good shoes are a sign of wealth. There is an old saying, the short man looks a lot taller when he is standing on his money.

Symmetry is also important. The closer one's features adhere to the golden ratio, the more attractive they seem.

I even read something about height being a factor. Women were likely to have short term relationships/affairs with taller men, but were less likely to engage in long term relationships with them.

So, if you are like me and happen to be well over six feet tall, with some British ancestry, wear beat up steel toe work boots regularly, and have had a broken nose in the past that you set yourself on one or more occasions, chances are you should spend a little time in the gym just to help average things out.

But worrying about physique/appearance too much is not right either. Confidence is key. People don't have to be perfect, they just have to be comfortable with themselves.


And, to those who are getting "friendzoned," try changing things up a little. One of my long term female friends actually asks me to wear a hat whenever I am around her when have my hair cut a certain way, on account of her wanting to jump me due to the haircut. She's joking, of course, but you never know.

People should be comfortable with themselves, but realize that certain decisions they make about the way they dress and act, while they may be valid choices for them, are going to cut them off from some prospective partners.

Supposedly, sometimes being too clean can be a negative. Smell is one of the most important aspects of attraction. If you're always covering up/soaping away your body's natural pheromones, you run the risk of being chemically inert to a prospective partner. I've never tried it though, on account of not wanting to skimp on my own hygiene routine.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

For the life of me, I really don't get this whole 'Friendzone" thing, or why it has somehow generated 7 pages of responses in less than 2 hours.

It's really pretty simple: you like a girl. She likes you from a basis of 'you're fun to hang out with, fun to talk to' etc. but doesn't find you attractive in the sense that she'd like to pursue a romantic relationship, so she'd simply like to be "just friends".

I think the problem we run into so often is that media has so frequently enchanted us with this plot-line (count how often you've seen something similar to this in the movies or TV): super hot-girl is dating a douchy frat boy/football jock/'bad boy' and then in the end, she finally realizes that the 'nice guy' she's known for so long is really the man for her, and she dumps Douchy McFootball and ends up with the nice guy.

When you're exposed to it so often, it creates the idea (whether conscious or subconscious) in a lot of guy's heads that if they simply be really, really nice that the sex will simply fall into their lap. Obviously that doesn't really work in real life.

All this comes down to, as far as I can see, is guys who just don't understand how attraction works.

 

[obscuredlimits]

I just don't get the...well...the claims that the 'Friendzone' doesn't exist.

For far as I can tell, it's just modern parlance for the phrase 'unrequiteded love'. You care about someone, you're happy when you're around them, you miss them when they're gone, you make excusses to spend as much time as possible with them; you want to take it further, but they don't. So far as they're concerned; you're a friend and nothing more.

I see nothing predatory or dehumanizing about being sad and frustrated about that.

Well said. You can't blame the second person of the unrequited love connection, as one cannot help but follow their heart; yet people feel the need to put a new label on it and blame that person anyways. If you find yourself "in the friendzone" or on the other side of unrequited love, there are three options: continue to try, decide to stay friends and hope to move on, or stop associating with them.

 

[Nurb]

Huh, so women never fall for a male friend who isn't interested in them, and if they do by some far off chance, they can turn off their feelings for them immediately after the friend tells them they aren't interested, and it's never awkward... EVER.

That's the only reason I can find for demonizing a single gender's natural feelings over love that isn't returned.

 

[coppah20HE]

I don't understand why people overcomplicate the definiton of the "Friendzone"
Are far as I see it, It's literally just a new-age term for unrequited love.

Hell, I sometimes classify myself as being in the "friendzone", with one of my best friends :/

 

[Lieju]

I don't understand why people overcomplicate the definiton of the "Friendzone"
Are far as I see it, It's literally just a new-age term for unrequited love.

Hell, I sometimes classify myself as being in the "friendzone", with one of my best friends :/

Pretty much this. People are trying to tie way too much into it.

Yes there can be people who are bitter, or idiots who get upset because someone doesnt put out, but the core of it is that it is just a more modern/shorthand version of unrequited love. Hell it isnt even only a guy thing like some kiddos seem to think. I have a few female friends who have been friendzoned.

It exists, it is a thing, just try not to overcomplicate it ok kids?

Well, the problem is that people use the word differently, which is evident just looking at this thread.

And some definitions of it include the belief that women (sometimes men) have these 'friendzones' where they put people they feel like keeping around for favours, and if they prove themselves they can be upgraded to a romantic interest.

Which sometimes happens, sometimes friendships turn into romantic relationships, but there might be all kinds of assumptions at work here, like the common assertion that men and women can't be just friends.

I just don't use the word at all. If I mean unrequited love, I say 'unrequited love'.

 

[Raikas]

I will admit that, in all my limited years, I have not seen an obese person become thin (or at least of a healthy weight)- except on television programs and advertisements and the like.
Or perhaps we are thinking of different things: when I hear 'obese', I think of one who is incapable of moving without mechanical assistance. Maybe you have a different image.

The medical definition of obese is much lower than your personal image - it's just 20% above ideal weight for height, so most of those people can still get around.

I worked with a guy (rotund but totally mobile) who went on a diet and lost 52kg (115lbs) - he looked like a totally different person in the end. When saw him for the first time in 8 months I wouldn't have recognized him at all - and the comment that I heard from a lot of people was that he now looked like his old self's "more attractive younger brother".