In defence of the 'Friendzoned'

Silverbeard

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Realitycrash said:
So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.
You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.
 

LetalisK

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Vegosiux said:
LetalisK said:
The friendzone does exist(it's just trendy new way of saying "unrequited attraction"), but it's not something that someone does to you. It's something you do to yourself.
You cant't do it to yourself, as you don't choose whether the other peron finds you attractive or not. It's something that, well, happens. Sometimes things happen to people without them being anyone's fault.
But you do choose whether or not you wallow around like a drunk pig instead of moving on and finding someone that actually returns that attraction. That is what being friendzoned is. Otherwise, it's just being a friend. To me, "friendzoned" and "friend" are differentiated only by your attitude.
 

Realitycrash

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Silverbeard said:
Realitycrash said:
So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.
You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.
Overall I'm just annoyed that apparently people of both genders think that it is abhorrent to care about finding someone physically attractive. 'I'm so funny and nice, so the fact that I smell bad and don't work out shouldn't matter!'.
 

Vegosiux

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Realitycrash said:
Silverbeard said:
Realitycrash said:
So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.
You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.
Overall I'm just annoyed that apparently people of both genders think that it is abhorrent to care about finding someone physically attractive. 'I'm so funny and nice, so the fact that I smell bad and don't work out shouldn't matter!'.
Hey hey now, all this "work out" thing is a bit overrated. I mean, you should be doing it for your own health, not to impress the ladies/gentlemen (or if you're lucky, you are like me and don't need to do it to stay good-looking at all. Then again I get a lot of exercise daily by cycling/walking to work, etc...)
 

Lugbzurg

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This "friendzoned" term is incredibly stupid. You don't have the right to own whoever you want. Either she likes you or she doesn't she doesn't belong to you. She is not required to meet your life-changing demands.
 

Cabisco

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How I view the 'friendzone': You really like someone romantically and they don't feel the same back but you see them all time so it's always on your mind and you an idealised image of how perfect it would be because just look at how great you're getting on now.

So yeah the friendzone sucks but it can't be helped. Loving anything and not having it returned sucks. It can't be helped though, you can't force emotion.
 

Last Hugh Alive

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I don't really care for the "friendzone" thing and most guys I know don't use the word in their vocabularies. I mean, I believe it exists, it's just not a word I'd use. As a guy I can say I've been "rejected" plenty of times, just not "friendzoned".

But anyway, it's not that hard to follow the "friendoned" logic is it? Even if you don't agree with it's existence and believe it's just a construct of the ego, the word is used by many to describe a pretty common scenario. A person builds some sort of attraction after a while for someone they know, but the feelings aren't returned and they'd prefer things remain the same.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing once you get over the disappointment. I think it's even possible (well it does happen according to some posts) for that person to get out of the friendzone and manage to strike a close relationship down the road, but this may depend on the people.

That said, I'm not actually interested in defending the concept and everything I want to say has already been said. I do, however, take issue with the word "entitled" being thrown around to describe every MAN who ever felt confused or frustrated when they were turned down by someone they really liked.

Most of us are very well aware she is not obligated to say yes or even let us down gently. We know we're the ones taking the risk when we put our heart out there, and we know there are also douchebags who scream foul and wish to be the victim (hint: there is none and there is no perpetrator). But these are feelings and emotions we're talking about, rational thinking isn't a magic wand that heal a broken heart over night and people have different ways of managing stress.

Hell, most of the guys on here including myself would consider themselves to still be in the early stages of discovering dating and relationships. Bad luck just really sucks, but what does "entitlement" have to do with that? I'm quite sick of seeing people like me compared to the worst kind of assholes for expressing any kind of frustration on the topic of relationships and rejection, for not having stones of steel at all times ever.

(Again I've never actually been friendzoned, but flat out rejected many times by girls I approached as a teenager. And if it also has to be re-iterated, I harbor no grudge towards those girls at all.)
 

Realitycrash

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Vegosiux said:
Realitycrash said:
Silverbeard said:
Realitycrash said:
So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.
You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.
Overall I'm just annoyed that apparently people of both genders think that it is abhorrent to care about finding someone physically attractive. 'I'm so funny and nice, so the fact that I smell bad and don't work out shouldn't matter!'.
Hey hey now, all this "work out" thing is a bit overrated. I mean, you should be doing it for your own health, not to impress the ladies/gentlemen (or if you're lucky, you are like me and don't need to do it to stay good-looking at all. Then again I get a lot of exercise daily by cycling/walking to work, etc...)
One of the major parts of life (for many people) is to find a partner. It's kind of a big deal. So I'm unsure if saying someone 'should do it for their health' is more valid than someone saying 'you should do it to impress people'.
 

Vegosiux

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Realitycrash said:
One of the major parts of life (for many people) is to find a partner. It's kind of a big deal. So I'm unsure if saying someone 'should do it for their health' is more valid than someone saying 'you should do it to impress people'.
I think it is, but of course we're talking opinions here. Just the way I see things. I mean, there's already a whole can o' worms open about what you're "expected" to do by the society to be found attractive, I'd really rather not pour more oil on that fire.
 

Realitycrash

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Vegosiux said:
Realitycrash said:
One of the major parts of life (for many people) is to find a partner. It's kind of a big deal. So I'm unsure if saying someone 'should do it for their health' is more valid than someone saying 'you should do it to impress people'.
I think it is, but of course we're talking opinions here. Just the way I see things. I mean, there's already a whole can o' worms open about what you're "expected" to do by the society to be found attractive, I'd really rather not pour more oil on that fire.
We all have different standards for what we find attractive. So fair enough. I just don't accept the whole 'I'm beautiful on the inside'-excuse. That might very well be, but then you'll make a perfect friend for me, not partner.
 

Lieju

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Spacemonkey430 said:
Now if girls were more honest with their supposedly friendzoned guys, they would be free of any responsibility they may have for causing such feelings. Same goes for guys (though less common) that do the same to girls.
Also, be honest and to-the-point about your feelings if you want that in return.

If a guy doesn't ask straight out or make it clear he wants a relationship, it's unfair to expect the girl to read their mind either.
I have had some pretty vague relationships with guys where I had no idea if they were pursuing me romantically.
We'd hang out together and do stuff together, and then they'd give me some expensive heart-shaped locket out of nowhere...

I think a lot of young guys (and girls) are kinda wishy-washy about their courtship.
I think that if you do that you can't complain if the object of your attraction doesn't clearly answer to your feelings.
 

thewatergamer

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Cowabungaa said:
FieryTrainwreck said:
I just don't get the...well...the claims that the 'Friendzone' doesn't exist.

For far as I can tell, it's just modern parlance for the phrase 'unrequiteded love'. You care about someone, you're happy when you're around them, you miss them when they're gone, you make excusses to spend as much time as possible with them; you want to take it further, but they don't. So far as they're concerned; you're a friend and nothing more.

I see nothing predatory or dehumanizing about being sad and frustrated about that.
This is what it means to most of us. Then some assholes decided to use it as an accusation, and that's apparently reason enough to eject the term wholesale on the say-so of people who think they can alter reality if they're just offended hard enough.
Pretty much.

Unrequited love becomes the 'friendzone' when douchebags think they're somehow entitled to romantic affection, as if someone couldn't reject them 'because they're such nice guys.'

In which they're totally wrong. There's nothing wrong about being frustrated by unrequited love, but thinking that a girl should love you is plain idiotic. There's never any kind of obligation just because you're nice.
This sums up my feelings perfectly
been stuck in with "unrequited love" alot (3 times now in a row with no dates yet but who's counting?)
and it sucks and at this point I have just said screw dating because of all the heartbreak I have gotten, the thing is I actually want to have a serious romantic relationship with my friend because, well I find her personallity and the way she acts attractive, as far as I can tell nothing wrong with that,
what drives me up the wall is when frat boys or "players" that have had sex so many times that they keep score and brag about it complain about being "friend zoned"

PS: Let me elaborate I don't blame girls that I find attractive I can understand it but it still doesn't stop the rejection from stinging, but whatever their choice I can say that I can't find them at fault at all
 

Echopunk

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I guess I have a different definition of friendzoned? Growing up, most of my friends were female. Every now and then, I'd get a crush on one of them, or vice versa. The problem was that since we were good friends, it made trying to date feel weird. We already knew a lot more about each other than most people would on a first date, and our way of relating to each other had a platonic basis because of our previous time spent together. So, not being able to get out of the friendzone, at that time, meant the relationship was just stuck at the platonic phase. For whatever reason, it was too weird to try and move forward on either person's behalf.

There is also the Big Brother Syndrome. You like someone, so you protect them, speak up for them, help take care of them, etc. They get used to you in that role. Fallout from BBS would be things like a friend only going out with you to try and make the guy she was dating/is interested in jealous enough to move in on her.

Then there are people who use people. An example would be the girl who dates you while dating someone else behind your back. The other guy happens to employ her/support her in some way, but the relationship is otherwise incomplete - lacking either physical or emotional intimacy that someone outside will provide.

Attraction comes down to chemicals.Love isn't like that line from "Self Esteem" by the Offspring. The more you suffer doesn't show how much you care. It shows how masochistic you are. If you have a close friend of the opposite gender you've gotten along with famously for years and years, yet you've never almost had sex with them (and I'm talking a hard almost here, as in "Whoa, I think I need to leave before I do something we're probably going to regret when those margaritas/jaegermeister/jack daniels wears off" or something of that type and not a fleeting touch to the abdomen at a concert or brief eye contact) then you need to forget about trying to transition the relationship into anything else.

It is easier to keep friends than partners. I have female friends I've been incredibly close with for over a decade now. Any idea how many failed relationships I've had in that time? I'm damn glad I didn't give up something that took a long time to build in exchange for something with less than a 50 percent chance of success.
 

Vegosiux

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Realitycrash said:
We all have different standards for what we find attractive. So fair enough. I just don't accept the whole 'I'm beautiful on the inside'-excuse. That might very well be, but then you'll make a perfect friend for me, not partner.
Well, there's a lot of room between "Ripped, sixpacs, manly biceps" and "foul-smelling neckbearded slob". Of course even I have standards of attractiveness, but they're flexible, and I mostly expect ladies (and gents) to look after themselves enough to stay healthy.
 

Silverbeard

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Realitycrash said:
Silverbeard said:
Realitycrash said:
So If I don't find you attractive, don't guilt me by saying I only date 'shallow' people, simply because you yourself aren't attractive. Because I used to be heavily overweight, and I'm damn sure you wouldn't be even looking twice at me back then.
You'll date who you wish, of course, but I feel that it is relevant to point out that the good-looking chaps amongst us will not stay good-looking forever. Looks are impossible to maintain over time but superior traits of character- upstanding honesty, courage in the face of certain defeat and relentlessness- are much easier to maintain. Pursuing a mate because he looks good and works out three hours a day over another who is less striking but would nevertheless die for you may not be the wisest investment of your time.
This applies to both genders, obviously.
Overall I'm just annoyed that apparently people of both genders think that it is abhorrent to care about finding someone physically attractive. 'I'm so funny and nice, so the fact that I smell bad and don't work out shouldn't matter!'.
Foul bodily odors have little to do with physical attractiveness- such a state indicates a diseased condition, aversion to personal hygiene or the physical inability to maintain cleanliness- brought on, for example, by extreme poverty. Running water really is a luxury that the developed world takes for granted. There ought to be a difference between an ugly fellow (who may or may not have impeccable hygiene) and one carved out of marble by the descendants of Michelangelo (who also may or may not have impeccable hygiene).
Working out and bodily development in general is also separate from appearance. For the record, if I had to have a mate, I'd much prefer one who could pull me from a burning car or off the edge of a cliff if those circumstances arose.
This is not to say that your approach is wrong or makes you a lesser person- but it is worth pointing out that physical attractiveness is a complicated thing.
 

FallenMessiah88

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I think that, in certain cases, "friendzoned" is just another word for "unrequited love".

Guy loves girl. Guy professes his love. Girl doesn't return his feelings = He is a friend to her = He is in the "friend" category = He is in the "friendzone".

Or...

Girl loves guy. Girl professes her feelings. Guy doesn't return her feelings = She is a friend to him = She is in the "friend" category = She is in the "friendzone".
 

K12

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Jared Jeanquart said:
K12 said:
The reason that "friendzone" is considered dodgy because of the framing of the situation.

Being "friendzoned" implies that it is the girl who is at fault for not offering up sex. People who talk about the friendzone as as place they accidentally landed themselves in (through their own low confidence, anxiety and awkwardness) is something I'm on board with.

There's often the implication of "who the fuck wants friends I wanted some god damn poontang!" in friendzone talk but if you don't make that assumption then fine, use it.
I have enough friends. What I don't have is a girlfriend. If I try to get a girlfriend and instead wind up with a regular friend (that stops interacting with me the moment I stop trying), I think its reasonable that I'm a little miffed. Not at the person in question, but at life in general. Makes you wonder what it is that's wrong with you. Or what's wrong with the world/culture. And why no one can give you a straight answer on what you're supposed to do about it.

Just saying. You act as though you're confused why someone would be disappointed at not being allowed to have any sort of intimate physical contact with another human being. You're either asexual, or incredibly obtuse.
You aren't owed sex from someone you're nice to. If you make your intentions known and she isn't interested then that's sad but it's life. If you haven't made your intentions known because you're shy then I sympathise but it's not her fault (she might be just as shy) that you haven't done it.

Both of these cases aren't really "being friendzoned" it's a case of being bad with women (or going for the wrong ones). Everyone has felt like that about themselves at one time or another (except James Bond maybe) but it's something you need to work through, don't blame her for it.

I don't honestly believe that the case where a man has made his intentions clear and the women strings him along (for selfish reasons) by being ambiguous about what she wants happens especially often. Most of the times I see a guy being treated like a doormat it's by someone already in a relationship with him.

I think most people appreciative directness (though not crudeness) much more than you might expect.
 

2012 Wont Happen

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krazykidd said:
There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes
Not exactly on topic of the thread, but I always feel the need to point out that just because the only options a woman can give to that question are yes and no does not mean that there is a 50% chance as to which she will say. Women are not coin flips.
 

Spearmaster

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Sex and sexual attraction are a primal thing, its coded into our genes. Throughout the centuries we have been trying to adhere all these social ideals like love, romance and chivalry to a force of nature and the wires get crossed. Then you end up with these anomalies like the "friend zone". Does it exist? Yes it does only as much as all the other ideals attached to sex do. Sex is a simple thing but a modernly defined relationship is an abomination of social rules, codes, laws, culture and the like. Society tells people what their relationship should be like and nature tells people who they are sexually attracted to and most of the time society and nature don't see eye to eye.

Guys who are mad about being friend zoned are actually mad about following societies playbook on scoring a relationship with a girl then nature foils the plan. Magazines, books, movies, advertizement and society promote all these things that are supposed to win the girl but in the end fail unless nature is on board. I can understand the frustration when a guy is attracted to a woman and rather than letting nature take its course and either be rejected or accepted, he is then thrown into societies machine and told what clothes and fragrances he needs to buy, how to have his hair, how to act, all the nice things to say and do to win her over, then after running societies gauntlet get slapped to the ground by nature, I can understand the frustration. You did all the things to make her like you, and she does, as a friend, because none of those things you did can change nature.

This is not the case every time though, there are still the macho frat types that believe that dinner and a movie is payment for sex. The difference is in weather the guy genuinely cares for the girl, in the cases where they do care lumping them into the frat guy crowd just adds insult to injury.
 

Crimsonmonkeywar

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b3nn3tt said:
Crimsonmonkeywar said:
b3nn3tt said:
My definition is different then what is seems most define as a 'friendzone' mine is a mutual attraction with a non-mutual decision on what to do with it.
So by your definition, both people are attracted to each other, but one of them wants to remain friends while the other wants to date?
that is correct