In Defense of Hepler Mode
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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You forgot to explain why Helper's comments actually have any relevance to the consensus that Dragon Age II wasn't very good, other than that she was a writer on the project. A writer, not a gameplay designer.Dexter111 said:
I just don't understand why you'd bother defending anyone from that little Reddit hate circle. Dragon Age II was a piece of crap, but if you or anyone else got so invested in it that you can't help but burst with misogynistic rage when a female writer expresses her ineptness at playing games, I think it says more about you than it does about them.
Then why not just say that she's (in your opinion) "abominable at her job"? Seriously, "living tumour"? You must be fun to know.FredTheUndead said:
*sigh*, sorry, that probably sounds a bit aggressive. I just wish people could be a bit more civil on the internet sometimes. God, I sound so old...
The marketing thing isn't necessarily about targeting people who don't like games full stop, it's marketing games to people who don't like the same games as you. Not every game is combat based. Presumably you're equally up in arms about people being able to skip dialogue, since it's part of the game?
Thinking about it, it doesn't even have to be marketing games to anyone new at all. It doesn't have to be a major selling point. I can certainly recall times when I've been playing a game (y'know, in my free time, for *fun*) and have encountered a bullshit boss fight, or a random encounter, or even just a bit of gameplay I couldn't be bothered with at that precise moment. "Hepler mode" would've been awesome then. Same goes for replays- maybe I just want the edited highlights, those highlights being unique to me and my preferences. I mean, it's my free time, my game, why shouldn't I play it how I want?
(Just so you know, I'm not actually anti-combat or anything, I can just see how this might be useful. I'm also a bit of a completionist with my games, so I probably wouldn't actually use it that much, apart from in the scenarios outlined above).
Actually what she said was a rather epic zinger of 'They're probably just jealous that I have a vagina and a job in the games industry, and they can't get either.'FredTheUndead said:
So of course, the internet started on the 'people in professional roles must lie back and take the beatings we administer without a word of protest' complaint. c.f. being a games journalist, forum mod, etc
My problem with Hepler has nothing to do with her specifically or her preferences, hell, I don't even have a problem with a "skip mode" for those that just want to experience the story or whatever, so long as it's optional and we don't start just making "games" that are 3D animated movies where you have to press a button now and then.
I just think she stands as somewhat of a symbol of what is wrong with Bioware right now, even if that might be an unfair assessment.
In the end, I as a gamer and RPG player would like to know that the people who work on the RPGs I play actually have a lot of experience with them. I wish writing for a game was easy as writing a novel, but it's an entirely different beast. So I'll say it: I don't think anyone who is ready to openly state that they don't care for playing games and just like the story should be writing for them.
But maybe that's too broad. Orson Scott Card wrote for Advent Rising, and that was a smashing suc- oh wait. Well, let's look at what books Jennifer Hepler has written... oh, you mean she's never been a successful writer by any account? You mean she is *failed* romance writer? Well, maybe she has other merits, she must have gotten into Bioware somehow. Oh, she's married to another employee there...
See what I'm getting at? I don't care about Jennifer Hepler as a person, she could be a pleasant person (though her Twitter posts openly insulting everyone who has critisized her were immature and childish, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt) for all I know. But she shouldn't be writing RPGs when she has an admittedly limited experience with the medium.
Of course, none of this actually matters if the game is good and has a good story at the end of it, right? Well that's when we start pointing to how bad parts of DA2 was, and it all starts to connect together.
I just think she stands as somewhat of a symbol of what is wrong with Bioware right now, even if that might be an unfair assessment.
In the end, I as a gamer and RPG player would like to know that the people who work on the RPGs I play actually have a lot of experience with them. I wish writing for a game was easy as writing a novel, but it's an entirely different beast. So I'll say it: I don't think anyone who is ready to openly state that they don't care for playing games and just like the story should be writing for them.
But maybe that's too broad. Orson Scott Card wrote for Advent Rising, and that was a smashing suc- oh wait. Well, let's look at what books Jennifer Hepler has written... oh, you mean she's never been a successful writer by any account? You mean she is *failed* romance writer? Well, maybe she has other merits, she must have gotten into Bioware somehow. Oh, she's married to another employee there...
See what I'm getting at? I don't care about Jennifer Hepler as a person, she could be a pleasant person (though her Twitter posts openly insulting everyone who has critisized her were immature and childish, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt) for all I know. But she shouldn't be writing RPGs when she has an admittedly limited experience with the medium.
Of course, none of this actually matters if the game is good and has a good story at the end of it, right? Well that's when we start pointing to how bad parts of DA2 was, and it all starts to connect together.
Thing is we kind of used to have a hepler mode, they were called cheat codes. I didn't see any "hardcore gamers" whining about those.
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Because if it gets any bigger than the standard paladin/neutral/asshole/investigate it will get too cumbersome and might as well be a menu. And also Bioware seems to have an aversion to putting accurate previews of what you will actually say and in what tone of voice on the wheel, which is a problem independent of size.goliath6711 said:
That's not an epic zinger but rather a great example of why she's so unlikable.Shamanic Rhythm said:
Because Bioware has rotted away due to the influence of her and others like her, on top of constant EA meddling. Thus "tumor." Because she's killed it, you see.Eamar said:
And here's the thing about that: at no point SHOULD you feel like you need to skip something unless you're replaying the game. I've never skipped a cutscene I was actually enjoying, and never bitched out a gameplay segment I thought was good. NOBODY has, unless they were replaying the game. This kind of thing is a crutch, an excuse not to improve one's writing ability or to balance the game properly. We've HAD mission skips in games before, usually in cases where the game was ridiculously fucking difficult in some unfair fashion, so rather than redesigning, the devs just said "fuck it" and added a skip in.
Now, if there's some NG+ option to skip shit, fine, that makes sense (in some cases), it's like chapter select.
What she said pretty much.hentropy said:
This too I guess, although often cheat codes were the comedy option more than anything. Oh Age of Empires, you and your machine gun sports cars and shotgun wielding babies...Grey Carter said:
Man... I wish there was an ability to internet highfive, cause that was awesome...Grey Carter said:
*Edit*
I just got a captcha again that said "am i happy?"... and I can honestly say, YES!
First, the primary reason story sequences are skippable is for when you have already seen them. Some games even make it a restriction by only unlocking the skip button if you've seen the cutscene before. Gameplay doesn't have the same once-and-done concept, even if you've done it before recently, there is still plenty of reason to do it again.
Second, Games already HAVE (or have had) a way to skip the combat. It's called cheat codes. Call it what it is and there's no real problem with it.
Additionally, as far as Hepler herself goes, the bigger, more legitimate reason to hate her (as a writer, not as a person), is that she writes for video games, but is not herself a major fan of the media. She is JUST a writer, she isn't a gamer. Some of her damage control has been to go back and try to say she likes games, but it's pretty clear they aren't her thing. I think there is a perfectly legitimate complaint to say that someone who isn't into games shouldn't be making or helping make them.
(edit, commenting without reading the thread. Glad to see people already get the cheat code concept)
Second, Games already HAVE (or have had) a way to skip the combat. It's called cheat codes. Call it what it is and there's no real problem with it.
Additionally, as far as Hepler herself goes, the bigger, more legitimate reason to hate her (as a writer, not as a person), is that she writes for video games, but is not herself a major fan of the media. She is JUST a writer, she isn't a gamer. Some of her damage control has been to go back and try to say she likes games, but it's pretty clear they aren't her thing. I think there is a perfectly legitimate complaint to say that someone who isn't into games shouldn't be making or helping make them.
(edit, commenting without reading the thread. Glad to see people already get the cheat code concept)
This should be a thing. It should be a thing called actual goddamn role playing options in an action game. If you want to skip combat, let characters specialize in stealth, engineering or dialogue so they can sneak past, disable or otherwise persuade enemies without engaging in combat. If people can find a quick, easy way past the guards, or weld the doors to the barracks shut or disguise themselves to get through without suspicion, not only will this make pacifist runs viable, but it'll add much greater depth to the kinds of characters you can play and what you can do. Everybody wins, and someone with the kind of funding EA gives and the brand recognition of Bioware should have the means to do that if Obsidian could in New Vegas.
My only problem with what she said is that as a writer, working at Bioware, she should have been thinking about ways to integrate her idea with the story and the gameplay. That way you aren't just removing the entertainment from your game, you're replacing it with something more entertaining for the kind of person who wants it. The suggestion is not a problem, the attitude towards making games more like books or movies is - it's counter to the strengths of the medium and serves as a detriment to the game rather than a strength.
My only problem with what she said is that as a writer, working at Bioware, she should have been thinking about ways to integrate her idea with the story and the gameplay. That way you aren't just removing the entertainment from your game, you're replacing it with something more entertaining for the kind of person who wants it. The suggestion is not a problem, the attitude towards making games more like books or movies is - it's counter to the strengths of the medium and serves as a detriment to the game rather than a strength.
God no, we can't have that, because then Bioware might actually be GOOD again!PurePareidolia said:
I can see this as a valid feature in games that try to have the narrative engine and core mechanics of the game separate, though this kind of feature would be tricky to implement. I don't think this would apply to *every* RPG as there are some out there that rely more on the core mechanics (leveling up character(s), inventory management, exploration) over story: Dark Souls, Pokemon, Diablo, Torchlight, or the old Might & Magic games are examples. Other game designers may oppose this idea as it contradicts the belief that the narrative events from the game should be given as a reward to the player for accomplishing a challenge, such as seeing the final ending sequence to a game for defeating the final boss.
Plus, these games might become "visual novel"-ish with that feature, and that raises the question on whether those could be considered games.
But its still an option to the player, similar to how they select the difficulty of a game when they start the campaign. Honestly I would just recommend reading a book or watching a film over playing (watching?) a game for its story since a lot of them are crap (Painkiller) or repetitive with its "save the world" cliche. I would avoid this feature since I care more for the core mechanics of a game, but I can definitely see it as a tempting offer if I'm not so good with the core mechanics of, say, "Second Sight" and I want to figure out what happens next.
Honestly I would recommend implementing cheating mechanics more into the game so players could "skip" the core mechanics they may not like to get to the parts they do like in the game. But this is another gray area for game designers (especially for online games) and hardcore players since it can make the player skip a large chunk of the game with little difficulty. I'd call that "boring," but I think some people would prefer these options than dying from a 4th level mage for the 50th time while trying to get into Candlekeep inn.
Plus, these games might become "visual novel"-ish with that feature, and that raises the question on whether those could be considered games.
But its still an option to the player, similar to how they select the difficulty of a game when they start the campaign. Honestly I would just recommend reading a book or watching a film over playing (watching?) a game for its story since a lot of them are crap (Painkiller) or repetitive with its "save the world" cliche. I would avoid this feature since I care more for the core mechanics of a game, but I can definitely see it as a tempting offer if I'm not so good with the core mechanics of, say, "Second Sight" and I want to figure out what happens next.
Honestly I would recommend implementing cheating mechanics more into the game so players could "skip" the core mechanics they may not like to get to the parts they do like in the game. But this is another gray area for game designers (especially for online games) and hardcore players since it can make the player skip a large chunk of the game with little difficulty. I'd call that "boring," but I think some people would prefer these options than dying from a 4th level mage for the 50th time while trying to get into Candlekeep inn.
I'd say that skipping the most interactive parts is kind of missing the point of gaming. I wouldn't tell anyone they're "playing it wrong," but again, this was never the part of what Hepler said that bothered me. Keep in mind, though, she did say that what she hated most was actually playing the games, and that's part of what set people off.
And while I'm not defending what they said, this is the basic response from our community, since simply winning a game can get you labeled a ****** and earn you death threats.
I don't like the idea of Hepler mode, to be frank. I can't speak for the Witcher, but even a lot of Bioware games, which may have a disconnect, still have some tie to the scenes in question.
Maybe we need novelisations of video games.
And while I'm not defending what they said, this is the basic response from our community, since simply winning a game can get you labeled a ****** and earn you death threats.
I don't like the idea of Hepler mode, to be frank. I can't speak for the Witcher, but even a lot of Bioware games, which may have a disconnect, still have some tie to the scenes in question.
Maybe we need novelisations of video games.
Actually, I do that with Odin Sphere, too. The story's good, but the gameplay is boring and tedious, so, since it lets me watch the custscenes after you've seen them once, I just do that. And occasionally play the final five bosses, because that's the only really fun part of the game.
Ok, this is going to be my last word on Hepler because I have no desire to get back into the full-on arguments of a few weeks/months (I don't even remember) ago, but one writer has not killed Bioware. If you want scapegoats blame the people with some actual power within the organisation. People who could have not accepted her writing if they thought it was that bad (and not everyone did). She wasn't even the lead writer on DA2 for crying out loud, plus she also wrote for DA:O, which we all liked. I'm not trying to make out she's some literary genius or anything, but she is not the problem with Bioware.FredTheUndead said:
Again, not taking personal preference into account. Now, if a large portion of your audience is skipping large amounts of your game, then yes I agree you have a problem. But I know there have been games I loved overall but which had a few bits I didn't personally get along with. Most recently, a couple of boss fights in ME3 pissed me off to the extent that I turned the difficulty all the way down to "narrative" (so shoot me) because I couldn't be bothered. From what I've seen, those fights weren't universally hated, in fact they were pretty popular with a lot of people, it was just my preference.FredTheUndead said:
I just don't understand how people can be so worked up about this but not be bothered by the fact that you can, in many, many games, skip other parts like dialogue and cutscenes, even in instances where those parts are generally well-liked. It's a non-issue then, why not here?
Actually, game writers have traditionally been drawn from non-game backgrounds, often comic books or TV. Most of the advice out there for getting into the industry as a writer suggests starting off in one of those media. It's pretty hard to get hired straight off as a "video game writer"- you need a proven track record as "just" a writer first, and often the people who've been asked to write for games haven't necessarily been gamers themselves. That doesn't mean they can't/don't work with the rest of the team to integrate their work into the overall finished product.Sotanaht said:
Apparently, no woman should, because "when you're a woman," you have too many responsibilities to actually play games.hentropy said:
But I digress. Helper's commentary online even prior to the blowup over her comments on skipping gameplay still came off as jerkish, but nothing merits the crap she took over it. I think that point needs to be underscored. She didn't deserve the temper tantrum that got thrown her way.
That being said, I'm still not a big fan of Hepler OR her idea.
yes necessarily. if a person approaches "complex RPG turn base game with intricate story" its because they know what they are getting into. i forgive cases of not knowing what the gameplay will be, but almost always when a normal person buys a fucking puzzler like portal, they know theyre gonna have to do puzzles. and in wich case you reply but what if tehy heard the game had this huge comedy story that they just wnana see, well youtube it. furthermore, if a game is well made, the gameplay is, at the very least, on equal importance to the experience as the story is. this skip button functionality really is limited to RPGs and replays, wich is why im totally for it, but as someone else said, it would be used as a crutch to not optimize gameplay. in fact, it IS used as a crutch. LA noire's wretched boring combat n chases are skippable, becuz its just shite. i honestly dont get why it was put in in the first place, or why it wasnt improved.DrVornoff said:
I disagree with most of that: what I see happening is people repeatedly quoting her out of context and then vilifying her for it. "I wish I could skip the gameplay" is delivered void of the context that she's a writer, not a game designer; the call about having a vagina is being reported as coming in response to 'criticism of her ability as a writer' instead of the actual context, which was 'calling her a ***** (and therefore being the first to make an issue of her gender) for her opinions on games'.FredTheUndead said:
Amen. I used to be so terrible at Warcraft but I desperately wanted to know what happened next in the story, so I just itisagooddaytodie'd my way through the campaign missions that were too hard. Is it really so bad to want a modern option for people who don't have the patience?Grey Carter said: