In Defense of Hepler Mode

[joshuaayt]

Yeah, I'm down with the idea of every single encounter being 'skippable', through dialogue skills. Have the game save at each one, and if you mess up, it lets you know you failed, and then you can battle anyway (If you're a hybrid fighter/talker) or restart the conversation.

Not necessarily as an alternative to Hepler Mode, but rather because I seriously want to play a true pacifist in more games (ie NOT just waiting for my allies to win for me.)

On HM itself... I have no problems with it? Just include a "Pacifist mode" available at the start, lock the character into all dialogue/passive skills (if applicable) and let them play normally, removing any enemies. Write the story so it accomodates a passive player anyway, so you don't get any "Congrats for vanquishing the goblin queen" when you really just walked to her house and back.

Instead, you'll pop in for a chat, tell her to fuck off, and if you fail the dialogue? Bam, restart that section. Gameplay, that lets you fail. (Obviously, when playing normal mode, failing the dialogue will just make her really cross.)

 

[SanguineSymphony]

If the gameplay in a game doesn't add something tangible to the experience what good is the game? Haven't played these games... and with people left and right saying the combat's a chore that add little to the overall experience... I have to say I feel justified in skipping em.

I did not enjoy every moment in combat in SMT: Nocturne but the payoff at the end felt like a culmination of my efforts and brought greater meaning to every battle I grinded.

If the combat doesn't add some greater catharsis to completion than I don't really know what to say...

 

[llubtoille]

It's an interesting concept, however it might take the challenge out of some games...
I mean, if you can simply click skip to bypass boss fights etc
Imagine FF7, you go fight one of the weapons, then just skip and get their loot XD
But if the boss fights were forced, and a player had skipped all prior combat, they would likely be ill prepared to defeat the boss (in terms of knowing tactics).

also yeah.. hepler... I can't not read that as helper.

Dragon Age 2 ... "The best RPG of this decade" with "The best RPG combat ever." "A pinnacle of role-playing games with well-designed mechanics and excellent story-telling, Dragon Age II is what videogames are meant to be."

Personally I found the DA2 combat to be rather enjoyable, especially when compared to DA:O,
The nonsensical forced actions were it's downfall in my eyes,
example - Act 3, some Mages with the help of sympathetic Templars are organizing some resistance thingy,
choose either psycho templar lady - destroy them, or mage dude - assist them...
but even if you pick to assist the mages, when you go say hi to them, it just initiates combat and you have to kill them XD

 

[maxben]

Hepler Mode is fine by me but is it still a game then. If you are skipping the combat then it simply becomes an interactive movie or the stories that appear on here sometimes.

There are no such things as interactive movies, no one sells anything labelled that. However, technically most video games would fall into the category of an entertainment that you watch (movie) and that you interact with (interactive). Its not like you interact with a video game with different senses than a movie, as you would with books or music, other than making choices with a controller.
The choose-your-own adventure book is a book, and a choose-your-own adventure video game (or interactive movie if you prefer) is a video game.

 

[Mike Richards]

What's the problem with trying? How will a game that experiments with a new structure be as cataclysmic as everyone seems to think it'd be. Does the existence of Dear Esther, a game with essentially no direct input from the player other then walking, somehow destroy Gears of War? Did the simplified leveling in Mass Effect prevent Wasteland 2 from entering development?

As gamers, we constantly complain about sequel farming and stagnant design philosophy, yet when someone starts proposing a new idea for how things could be done it's the end of the world. So what's the harm in giving it a go? Chances are it'll work great in some games, be terrible in others, and most will never use it at all. Options are never a bad thing, because the whole point of them being optional is that we don't have to pay attention if we don't want to.

What is and isn't acceptable design changes constantly. For example, I'm sure that 12 or so years ago the idea of giving the player the option go off and ignore most of the actual content you had planned over the course of the game was unthinkable to a lot of developers. Then GTA 3 came out, and just look where we are now.

 

[rickthetrick]

I need a Hepler mode at work.
I think there's an ancient Turkey Tv skit about that. Like 4 people reading this will remember that show.

 

[him over there]

I know some people are like "well then it is just a movie so go watch a movie" but there isn't a mass effect movie. There isn't a Halo movie, there isn't a skyrim movie. So the whole "well just watch a movie" thing falls flat because I can't watch one with the story of the game I want to skip through.

Also Theater mode already exists in most games, and it has brought us some wonderful things:

 

[Bostur]

My main problem with the idea of Hepler Mode, is that the few games were I would have liked it, it would only make sense because the gameplay was too tedious or too boring to play. In that case the good solution would have been to put more effort into designing the gameplay.

Some games actually have Hepler Mode, and have it for a very good reason. Total War has a Hepler Mode, it's called skip tactical combat. And it makes perfect sense because due to how battles happen, some of them will be boring or unimportant. It also adds the option to play it in pure strategic mode, although that will water down the game a bit.
Games with several types of gameplay can sometimes benefit from the option to skip certain parts of it.

If one were to add Hepler Mode to a game like ME2 on the other hand there wouldn't be any gameplay left.

The discussion reminds me about how I feel when I watch an opera or a musical in the TV. I sometimes wish they would add a button to skip the singing and get on with the story. But thats not really because I would like to watch an opera without the music, thats because I would rather have watched a play or a movie. Some of the proponents of Hepler Mode reminds me of that feeling, they are watching the wrong thing and would have been better off with interactive fiction or a normal movie.

Finally I think one reason Hepler received some hate, was due to her statement that she doesn't like playing games. How can a game writer make stories for a medium she doesn't like and doesn't understand? Games are a completely different medium and require a very different type of storytelling. Thats like letting a writer who dislikes music write a song. That simply wont work.

 

[Hulyen]

Hepler Mode is fine by me but is it still a game then. If you are skipping the combat then it simply becomes an interactive movie or the stories that appear on here sometimes.

There are no such things as interactive movies, no one sells anything labelled that. However, technically most video games would fall into the category of an entertainment that you watch (movie) and that you interact with (interactive). Its not like you interact with a video game with different senses than a movie, as you would with books or music, other than making choices with a controller.
The choose-your-own adventure book is a book, and a choose-your-own adventure video game (or interactive movie if you prefer) is a video game.

Never say never. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_movie]

Also, I think people are really generalizing/oversimplifying things here - obviously this is not a mode that can or should be in every game, or even in every genre. However, there are games that it would definitely be a good fit for, and that shouldn't be overlooked in a lump statement.

 

[That One Six]

Seems pretty legitimate to me. My girlfriend is trying to get into gaming, and she enjoys games such as Dragon Age: Origins, but sometimes has trouble with the more difficult fights. She doesn't want to give up on the game, but she's not as skilled as those of us who have been into the medium for all of our lives. I think something like Hepler Mode would really help burgeoning gamers with a taste for story get started.

Captcha: Count on Corolla - So car companies are going to utilize Hepler mode? Skip the driving and just get to your destination? Color me impressed.

 

[ResonanceSD]

In Defense of Hepler Mode

Shamus offers support for a "Hepler Mode" in games.

Read Full Article

Considering how bad the combat was in Dragon Age 2, I can't blame her.

At the same time, Hepler, go buy the book of the game instead? It's an interactive medium that requires more than shunting your character from hotspot to hotspot.

 

[zefiris]

As for Hepler herself, while the community at the time certainly didn't handle things correctly, she IS nothing less than a living tumor

Thanks for proving that gaming fandom is still festering with ugly, ugly sexism.

Because she is a writer and absolutely abominable at her job? I'd say the same about David Gaider, her awful, terrible, partner in crime

She isn't abominable at her job, though. Neither is Gaidar. You'll have to deal with other players being able to play their characters as gay. It doesn't hurt you.

why tortur yourself with having to play through it

Hence such a mode, to avoid said torture, no?

It's called 'easy' mode, but regardless this is entirely my point. People like your girlfriend, for want of a better phrase, need to 'man up' and realise that games require a bit of work to be good at.

Nope. You need to 'man up' and realise that games can be played in ways you don't. You will have to learn to deal with this. Different options are not a problem unless you have pretty severe issues that you need to work with. That someone beats a boss in easymode or skips him that you fought hard to beat does not affect your gameplay in any way. Stop whining about how others choose to play.

Care for your own gameplay. Not that of others.

 

[Sagacious Zhu]

At what point does a game stop being a game then?

I have no problem with people playing the game the way it they want to but if someone wants to just watch cutscenes, why don't they just look them up on Youtube? Games are more than just choose your own adventure movies and if companies start treating them as such, does gameplay suffer for the story?

 

[Bostur]

At what point does a game stop being a game then?

I have no problem with people playing the game the way it they want to but if someone wants to just watch cutscenes, why don't they just look them up on Youtube? Games are more than just choose your own adventure movies and if companies start treating them as such, does gameplay suffer for the story?

It's an interesting question. I imagine it's possible to create a game where all the gameplay consists of moving around and talking to people. It can still be more gamey than 'choose your own adventure' style. But I think it takes more than an option to skip the combat of an existing game.

A game needs to be designed with both the gameplay and the narrative in mind.

What makes a game a game? Conditions for success and failure, and those conditions must be an effect of player actions.
Just a broad attempt at a definition, there are many others.

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captcha
jetBlue Airways
describe the brand with any words

I have no idea who you are and I don't give a shit, because this topic is about gaming.

 

[Kargathia]

When people are calling out for the option to skip large portions of your game, then I'd say the justified response is to have a long, hard look at your game. Maybe it's time to ditch the ancient approach of gameplay/cutscene/gameplay in favour of something smoother?

But regardless of the actual issue: anyone who thinks "having a different opinion" is enough cause to spout abuse on this scale is a total fuckwad. No exceptions.

 

[twiceworn]

OH GOD someone get this idiot a movie to watch, i will say this once and only once. GAMES ARE GAMEPLAY

game/gām/
Noun:
A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.

Adjective:
Eager and willing to do something new or challenging: "they were game for anything".


its a game its something you play if you skipped the gameplay in a game you have an interactive story at best and a movie at worst and if you want those things you can go online there will be a lets play for any choice you would make. the last thing the industry needs is another gimmick to mess around with and take focus away from the people who actually like games as a whole not just one part of it!

 

[SanguineSymphony]

As for Hepler herself, while the community at the time certainly didn't handle things correctly, she IS nothing less than a living tumor

Thanks for proving that gaming fandom is still festering with ugly, ugly sexism.

Its impossible to judge whether or not that particular poster would have been abusive and rude to either gender.... I know if I felt passionately on the subject I would/have. Leveling a charge of sexism just because the one being lambasted is a woman is stupid.

Besides she was the one who brought up her gender anyways. Once you bring your sexuality to the forefront how it gets skewered is your fault. I imagine if she were a rotund male people would have still being making fun of her appearance. Once again in part because I would have if I gave a shit.