In Witcher 3, Size Matters

[DonTsetsi]

So many racist views here. Just sad.
By racist views, I mean complaining about the race of the characters without paying any respect to the culture of Poland, the reality of Eastern European demographics during the Middle Ages or the isolationist nature of the North during the wars. The developers don't have to justify the race of their characters, even if those factors were not in play.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Maybe that's why so many of the humans in the Witcher series have the same face. ShotsFired.jpg

Don't you mean the same hair? That slicked-back look is certainly in fashion among the men of White Orchard, Velen, Novigrad, and Skellige.

 

[Areloch]

Maybe that's why so many of the humans in the Witcher series have the same face. ShotsFired.jpg

Don't you mean the same hair? That slicked-back look is certainly in fashion among the men of White Orchard, Velen, Novigrad, and Skellige.

Nah, I was having a jest at the fact that some of the same face models get reused a fair bit for some peasant NPCs.

 

[UberThetan]

The only explanation I've seen thus far that makes sense is that it's a Polish game and Poland just isn't very multicultural, which reflects itself in art, but that hardly makes sense in the game universe.

Here, let me post this missive written just on the previous (first!) page of this thread:

Oh for the love of..

I'll speak here as a Pole AND a former employee of CD Projekt (disclaimer - I was the logistics guy in Polish distribution branch of the company, not part of the creative team behind The Witcher 3) - I'm sick and tired of all those ethnic debacles about this game.

CDPR is a Polish company, yes, but right now it's pretty much a multi-culture team. The Executive producer for this game is an American from Georgia state. They have a team of people from all around the world, including black people (from France) and Asian (Filipino). And those are just people I personally met there, there's probably more, if you'll dig into the subject. Heck, their next big project, Cyberpunk 2077, is created in close association with the original Cyberpunk RPG creator - Mike Pondsmith, who is black. The team is pretty much aware of different ethnic backgrounds, thank you were much. As for us, Poles ourselves - yes, our country is like 99% white people. No, that does not mean, we are not aware of other cultures existing.

So... Why there was no black people in Witcher 3? Because it does not fit the lore, God damn it. If someone would actually bother to read the books (although I heard that the English translation is terrible, so that may be at fault here, I don't know), would have caught it immediately. The world of The Witcher series is basically Northern Kingdoms, Skellige Isles, Nilgaard Empire, and Zerrikania. From the west, there is a vast ocean that no one traversed, and no one knows what's there. To the East, there are huge mountain ranges, that people did not traverse to find out what's there. Zerrikania is a desert land, and as far south/east as people ever went. This is this universe land of black people who are living there peacefully and minding their own business. In fact, they are deliberately staying away from from Northeners (ie. white people), because they want to take no part in their crazy power struggles. The only exceptions are pretty much mercenaries, like Tea and Vea - the duo of female Zerrikan bodyguards in the books, or indeed Azar Javed, a Zerrikan sorcerer, one of the main antagonists in The Witcher 1. Even the mercenaries prefer to stay away from the North though during the time of war. The war that we see in The Witcher 3 is actually the 3rd war with Nilfgaard, and during the 2nd one in the books it is stated, that Zerrikans want to have no part in any of the Northener's bloodshed. Also, they would have to either sail through ENTIRE continent west coast to get there (kindly reminder: Skellige pirates does not fuck around), or travel by foot/cart through Nilfgaard, and their borders.

Do you see where I'm getting at? Putting a black person in this particular region of the world, during this time would mean explaining, why the fuck would he/she travel so far north during such dangerous times (Velen/Novigrad is basically THE FRONTLINE of this war), when risk/reward ratio is really bad, while he/she could stay safe in their homeland south. It would be getting out of the way of the lore and common sense of people living in that universe. It could be done, yes. It would be also an unnecessary stretch to fit in there, that would be instantly accused of tokenism, I guarantee it. And no, expectations of some people from USA are not enough to compromise perfectly fine geographical lore of the universe. You don't like it - fine, no one forces you to agree with it. It's a product you can willingly accept to consume or not based on your preferences. THEREFORE please do not force your expectations of racial quotas on other people's products, because not all products are made with you in mind. That's their idea of the game, where black people simply do not fit, due to LOGICAL, GEOGRAPHICAL, LORE reasons, not "Lol, racism, we don't know that black people exist". You are basically expecting Zulu people to travel north and fight in Germany vs Poland war. Please stop that, it's insulting.

Phew... Rant's over. Now go play the game. It really is damn awesome.

But hey, just polish people making polish games, right? No entire series of books and a host of lore and world building to rely on, right?

 

[SupahEwok]

What I mean is, if The Witcher's universe has a heavy basis in realism, and if this world has a variety of climates from continent to continent, it's a bit weird then that you don't see that represented in the physical traits of those people. Unless over the thousands of years elves, dwarves, and humans have simply stopped evolving, because of magical reasons.

So again, this is not about how there should be a focus on skin colour, but why in this realistic universe there's no varying skin colour whatsoever. It's just a bit weird.

Did you not read Yossarian1507's comment on the first page? He's got a pretty comprehensive explanation of what's what in the Witcher-verse.

You are assuming a great deal more geographical diversity than there actually is. The part circled in red is the extent of the W3 game. [http://i.imgur.com/s51OAga.jpg] That ain't really that big on a global scale. Also, there aren't multiple inhabited continents. This is the only one. Its a small world.

Furthermore, humans have only been in this world for 500 years. Therefore, restricted chances for evolution to make significant changes. And as Yossarian said, in the one known area in the world of W3 that does have a desert environment, there are darker skin hues, as seen in one of the main villains from the first game.

Really, read Yossarian's post, I have a hard time believing you have done so if you're asking these questions.

Lastly, there were plenty, plenty, plenty of times different species were victimized in the previous two Witcher games. I haven't played 3, but I would not blame the devs if they wanted to move on to something else and not play on the inter-species racism quite as much this time around. There's a sub-continent wide war and Geralt searching for his friends and loved ones AND that whole kaboozies with the spookies that the title of the game seems to promise. That's enough for any 3 games, let alone one.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Furthermore, humans have only been in this world for 500 years. Therefore, restricted chances for evolution to make significant changes. And as Yossarian said, in the one known area in the world of W3 that does have a desert environment, there are darker skin hues, as seen in one of the main villains from the first game.

Yeah, see that's the bit I'm not really taken with. I remember reading that in the little bonus booklet and thinking 'Why'. Again, it's because this is a grounded setting, so when I hear that humans only came to this world 500 years ago my brain is just stuck thinking 'Well where the hell did they come from? Do they have memories of where the came from? Were they just whisked into being? Did they already know language or were they taught by the elves and dwarves?'

I'll gladly admit I just don't really get this universe. Just as I didn't get why Witchers are so reviled when Geralt is the biggest dickwavinest dude around.

 

[EternallyBored]

The only explanation I've seen thus far that makes sense is that it's a Polish game and Poland just isn't very multicultural, which reflects itself in art, but that hardly makes sense in the game universe.

How? As far as I can tell, the particular area where the Witcher stories take place seem to be a fantasy version of medieval Poland.

Maybe black humans, elves or whatever do exist in the universe, but they're somewhere else, far away and extremely rare in the particular part of the world where The Witcher takes place.

You know, just like the actual Poland on the actual Earth.

Thanks to the previous posters answering my question, and a little research on my own, it seems like there aren't actually any non-white people in the Witcher universe. Zerrikania is vague and canon doesn't really indicate if they are non-White or just supposed to represent darker skinned Southern European White people. Zerrikanian culture doesn't seem to have any obvious cultural influences beyond being far away and mysterious, maybe there's more out there, I don't speak Polish so maybe I'm missing something.

It is slightly amusing as an American to see a universe entirely populated by White people coming in from another dimension to create European Medieval fantasy land. I am having way too much fun imagining a regular Earth just having all the White people vanish off the face of the planet one day to go fuck off in another dimension and confusing the hell out of a medieval era Middle East and North Africa moving into the region scratching their heads at where all the Europeans went.

Spoiler

Given ciri's powers though, you could technically get any race of person or even species into the setting with her dimension crossing ability, she could theoretically bring whole armies of extra-dimensional people and things especially since she implies at one point in the story that she hid out in a world that sounds suspiciously like CDPR's other project Cyberpunk 2077. It would be awesome to see ciri pop up as an easter egg in Cyberpunk 2077

 

[Dornedas]

As a matter of fact, I can't recall seeing any elves or dwarves getting beaten or murdered for being non-human in The Witcher 3. So however bad this racism is there must've been a lull in the time period that this game takes place in.

Than you clearly haven't played enough of Witcher 3 because there are numerous instances where Elves get beaten up simply for being elves.
The reward once you save them: A nice little "Plough yourself".
Apart from the very first side quest you get where someone burns down the forge of a dwarf because he is a dwarf.
And there is the Doppler who gets burned once you enter Novigrad. But I was never sure if that was because they believe him to use magic or because he is not human.
And I don't know how far you are in 3 currently so I will just say that most people in Novigrad are directing their hate against the mages.

And in the first game the Non-Humans live in their own ghetto in Wizima or how it is written. But you already said you haven't played it so I won't hold it against you. Much.

 

[EternallyBored]

Furthermore, humans have only been in this world for 500 years. Therefore, restricted chances for evolution to make significant changes. And as Yossarian said, in the one known area in the world of W3 that does have a desert environment, there are darker skin hues, as seen in one of the main villains from the first game.

Yeah, see that's the bit I'm not really taken with. I remember reading that in the little bonus booklet and thinking 'Why'. Again, it's because this is a grounded setting, so when I hear that humans only came to this world 500 years ago my brain is just stuck thinking 'Well where the hell did they come from? Do they have memories of where the came from? Were they just whisked into being? Did they already know language or were they taught by the elves and dwarves?'

I'll gladly admit I just don't really get this universe. Just as I didn't get why Witchers are so reviled when Geralt is the biggest dickwavinest dude around.

The whole thing comes off as a little convoluted, the wikis I've read seem to indicate that humans arrived and basically took the land occupied by the other races, but those older races also immigrated from another world or across the sea or something like that. There's also 2 types of elves the ones that arrived on ships and another group that lives in another world and travels to the Witcher world through portals.

So basically at some point in time a bunch of parallel universes collided, which brought monsters, other species, magic, and even supposedly humans to this world and its all basically just been one giant clusterfuck since then. There's apparently also this thing where the medieval human society knows humans evolved whereas the elves believe they had a creator, so I have no idea what that's all about.

I can't find anything about what world the humans came from, the history stuff seems very vague about everything other than basically it seems to be a medieval European version of Bioshock Infinite with alternate universes getting together to dump all their trash into the Witcher world every so often, and Ciri is that multiverses version of Elizabeth

 

[Casual Shinji]

Than you clearly haven't played enough of Witcher 3 because there are numerous instances where Elves get beaten up simply for being elves.
The reward once you save them: A nice little "Plough yourself".
Apart from the very first side quest you get where someone burns down the forge of a dwarf because he is a dwarf.
And there is the Doppler who gets burned once you enter Novigrad. But I was never sure if that was because they believe him to use magic or because he is not human.
And I don't know how far you are in 3 currently so I will just say that most people in Novigrad are directing their hate against the mages.

And in the first game the Non-Humans live in their own ghetto in Wizima or how it is written. But you already said you haven't played it so I won't hold it against you. Much.

I've been playing it for the last three weeks straight, though I won't deny I haven't remembered every bit of the story since there's so fucking much of it.

As for the dwarf's forge burning down... I think that had more to do with him making weapons for Nilgaardian soldiers and less with him being a dwarf. Just like that lady who got her face smashed into the counter of her own bar because she replaced the Temerian banner with a Nilfgardian one.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Spoiler

Given ciri's powers though, you could technically get any race of person or even species into the setting with her dimension crossing ability, she could theoretically bring whole armies of extra-dimensional people and things especially since she implies at one point in the story that she hid out in a world that sounds suspiciously like CDPR's other project Cyberpunk 2077. It would be awesome to see ciri pop up as an easter egg in Cyberpunk 2077

Yeah, I caught that, too.

Either that was just CDPR giving us a little nudge in anticipation for their "future" titles... or The Witcher universe is in reality just somebody's fan dream. Or maybe it's like Last Action Hero, but with the entire white demographic.

...

This is starting to sound too awesome now.

 

[Dornedas]

I've been playing it for the last three weeks straight, though I won't deny I haven't remembered every bit of the story since there's so fucking much of it.

As for the dwarf's forge burning down... I think that had more to do with him making weapons for Nilgaardian soldiers and less with him being a dwarf. Just like that lady who got her face smashed into the counter of her own bar because she replaced the Temerian banner with a Nilfgardian one.

3 weeks straight and still not finished now this is what I call a dirty casual

For the dwarf: I think you might be right and he only believed that it was because he is a non-human.
I think he says something about " blah blah thought I was finally being accepted after 50 years of living here. blah blah"

And for the other elves that are being beaten up. They are not exactly part of some larger story. Which makes sense since beating up elves is just something that happens because of racism. You just get the "quest" when you are riding nearby and suddenly there is an exclamation mark on your compass because some elf gets beaten up. I had that happen 4 or 5 times I think. Once it was elves beating up a human .

 

[Casual Shinji]

3 weeks straight and still not finished now this is what I call a dirty casual

I started over when I was like 30 hours in. That's my usual routine with RPGs; Play the shit out of it completely blind for like half of the game. Then start from scratch and actually play the competently with my previously aquired knowledge. I did that twice with Bloodborne.

 

[EternallyBored]

snip

snip

I dunno if either of you have made it far enough in the game but you are missing:

Spoiler: minor non-plot critical spoilers for the third act

When you return to Novigrad later in the game, you find out that if you helped Triss evacuate the mages, the Witch hunters have started burning non-humans at the stake, Geralt makes the comment that this is humans returning to an old favorite scapegoat before they started persecuting mages in the north

 

[Dornedas]

snip

snip

I dunno if either of you have made it far enough in the game but you are missing:

Spoiler: minor non-plot critical spoilers for the third act

When you return to Novigrad later in the game, you find out that if you helped Triss evacuate the mages, the Witch hunters have started burning non-humans at the stake, Geralt makes the comment that this is humans returning to an old favorite scapegoat before they started persecuting mages in the north

That was exactly what I meant.
But I really have to wonder how Radovid managed to explain that. I mean he is totally crazy.
But there seemed to be a little bit of logic behind his witch barbecues for him to rationalise them. With everything that happened in Witcher 2 and his history with Phillippa.
It is the logic of a lunatic sure but it is still logic. But I can't see how he rationalises the spoiler.

 

[Crimson Cade]

Here is the reason why they have fantasy creatures being the butt end of racism: They wanted to show how really evil actual, gritty racial persecution could be in a time of feudal lords. And if they hung and burnt black people for being "lesser, subhuman, inferior" etc... well, we all know how that would go.

 

[EternallyBored]

snip

snip

I dunno if either of you have made it far enough in the game but you are missing:

Spoiler: minor non-plot critical spoilers for the third act

When you return to Novigrad later in the game, you find out that if you helped Triss evacuate the mages, the Witch hunters have started burning non-humans at the stake, Geralt makes the comment that this is humans returning to an old favorite scapegoat before they started persecuting mages in the north

That was exactly what I meant.
But I really have to wonder how Radovid managed to explain that. I mean he is totally crazy.
But there seemed to be a little bit of logic behind his witch barbecues for him to rationalise them. With everything that happened in Witcher 2 and his history with Phillippa.
It is the logic of a lunatic sure but it is still logic. But I can't see how he rationalises the spoiler.

I don't think the change is so much Radovid in this case as it is the Church of the Eternal Flame, you hear throughout the game that the church is human first, and they pretty much spell it out for you when you first enter Novigrad that the church will likely turn on non-humans as soon as the mages are dealt with. In this case it seems to be religious fanatics using the nonhumans as a convenient target to keep the human populace in line by giving them an easy target to blame for all their problems.

 

[freakonaleash]

Could... could we not do this? For once? Please?

When actual racists call the lack of black people a victory, that's a problem

No. Its a low fantasy setting, in a handful of lands based loosely on the slavic places of europe. Witchers job is NOT to satisfy your idiotic need for diversity, it is to represent the setting its based upon. At which it succeeds greatly. And thats the only thing I have to say about that.

OT: I absolutely agree with you Shamus, it is a MASSIVE game...but I dont mind having to play if for months before finishing it...the game is just that great.

10/10. Anyone not playing it is missing out on some seriously good game.

Yet, it doesn't seem to have any black people.

No black people in a fantasy game modeled after medieval Europe?! I'm shocked, simply shocked. I'm sure the real medieval Europe had LOADS of black people in it, right?

How about Poland, the country where this game was developed? Surely Poland has a racially diverse culture that wasn't in any way nearly entirely homogenized by the Holocaust in a way still impacting diversity today. Surely Poland isn't mostly entirely one big marshmellow country.[/sarcasm]

You see, I just don't buy this. There were black people in medieval Europe, you know that right? Not all that many, but they were there. I don't see it as being an especially big deal but it did strike me some ways in that I hadn't encountered a single non-white character save for one succubus in a game that has so many NPCs. It's just kinda weird.

I know right? I played Yakuza 4 the other day, and there was like nothing but Asians in it. And I know there's white people living there, as I know one of them. It's fucking racist, man.

I think I love you a bit.

So the want for diversity is idiotic?