Oh yes, EA is doing this purposefully and with a plan in mind for sure. Sinister or not, they didn't do it by accident.GWarface said:
Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
This.gyroscopeboy said:
Like, really.
Battlefield 3 had a really good chance, and will no doubt be a superior product to Modern Warfare 3, but has completely thrown away its PC market with this pile of constantly growing problems brought on exclusively by the publisher, EA.
I'm willing to bet that DICE is pissed, to be honest. EA has totally ruined their entire BF3 PC release.
MONIESfunguy2121 said:
They mine all this information and then sell it to third parties, usually marketing firms, who then target us for spam and the likes. Those big wigs, and yes they are the ones making these decisions, want to rake in even more money then just producing the video game. They do this by selling your personal data.
Doesn't that give you a warm feeling inside?
FYI, the hard-copy of BF3 will require you to register it with Origin to play.TheDarkEricDraven said:
I think the only EA game that is coming out soon that has explicitly said it won't be using Origin, or require Origin (unless you want to purchase digitally) is The Old Republic, and I think that is because BioWare said "Fuck you, EA. If you fuck this up for us, we're taking our ball and leaving."
Unfortunately not so.Steve Fidler said:
The reason they said it is because as most MMOs it uses built in distribution and authentication system. And what's worse, EA owns The Old Republic too, so before you see ToR EULA ... You can't know if it's not the same text.
I would expect about the same text really. They have same legal crew after all. But, hope I'm wrong.
EA could be the pre-cursor of Vault-Tech. They seem to run a similar style social experiment. Make a big carrot, and see how many layers of crap you can cover it in before people stop wanting to get a bite of it. First the mod tools, then server browsers, now this. Well, I've been a fan of the Battlefield series, but I wasn't quite as hyped as my game magazine said I should be, so I guess I won't be getting it.
Well thought out and written post and I hope it gets a few peoples attention.Atmos Duality said:
Like you, I am not a lawyer but I understand a little more then the laymen when it comes to the court system. I understand that contacts like this are deliberately designed to give 'wriggle room' to the person writing them. I understand that, what is written on paper, is just the tip of the ice-berg of what they want to get away with. Doesn't matter the company in this context, if anyone hands you a contract that is the minimal of what they want to get out of you and if you let them write it, and sign it blindly, then you can be in for a world of hurt.
Yeah, learned that lesson shortly after my 18th birthday....
The vague wording of this agreement, and the way it is shoved down your throats in a manor that can only be considered extortion (do it or none of your games will work) is down right frightening. It screams to my senses that this is another 'tip of the ice-burg' scenario and that vague wording. Hell, I can easily interpret it to mean they get to scan all actively running software and what that software is doing at any given time. Without even reaching as it is already written into the contract with terms like 'software usage!'
Who's software - anyones!
What usage - Anything it does!
While others point out in reality they are likely going to go for the usual research-applicable data, like other game designers request from you, the vague wording of the contract means the do NOT have to limit themselves to said hardware related data, or even internal research. That last part is the biggest alarm bell in my head if you ask me. They want full rights to do whatever they want with the data they mind, and clearly are covering their arse in case of a law suit for selling said personal information. They can even ell your IP address, stated they have the right to collect and sell it.
Which also brings me to the term "personally identify." You might be thinking 'oh, at least they can't say where they got this data so my porn collection is safe' but this is not the case. The word, personally, was added for a reason and this means they can not use your name. Your IP address does NOT personally identify you, it identifies the network you are on. Of course two seconds with a search engine can retrieve all sorts of personal information using just the IP address alone... but in and of itself it does not identify you.
Feel safer?
The clause also states, quite clearly, they have the right to sell the data they mine. Most companies limit themselves to internal research, making it illegal for them to sell any data they collect. Not EA, they want the right to sell your information and that in itself is the most scary part of this clause.
This means they will be financially motivated to mine more and more data in the future. Not just data related to games, such as your hardware specification, but whatever data has the most value when sold. That means they will be more interested in what other software you have on your system, and what that software is doing, so they can sell this information to companies that will design those annoying pop-up ads, have no qualms about spamming you or other invasive marketing techniques.
After all, it is these 'offensive marketing firms' that pay for this data and they don't care what motherboard you have, they want to know if they can convince you to install yet another tool-bar or which business they need to scratch to have their pop-ups included. With the clause 'software usage' this would even mean what websites you visit and the likes, data that will be used to annoy you in the future.
Thank you EA games, for selling my data to people so they can more easily try and convince me to buy crap I do not want or need....
I was also looking forward to Battlefield 3, so i could play something different from another Call of Duty campaign with one new feature put in, but i uninstalled my origin after reading this. I'm not looking forward to EA raping my computer out of my personal informations.
........dammit EA! For a short time I was really starting to like you and your games!
But hot damn do you WANT me to dislike you.
I mean...You want to be able to see almost EVERYTHING I do on my computer? Why? I mean, it's not unusual for games to take in user data, and I'm fine with you seeing everything I do that's A PART OF the service you're providing...but this?
This. Is. NOT. ACCEPTABLE. I am never buying a PC game from EA. It's my computer, my privacy, I don't want them watching me in my sleep, thanks.
Fortunately, I'm getting Mass Effect 3 on a console, where the data stealing will be at a minimum because all I do on it it play games.
But hot damn do you WANT me to dislike you.
I mean...You want to be able to see almost EVERYTHING I do on my computer? Why? I mean, it's not unusual for games to take in user data, and I'm fine with you seeing everything I do that's A PART OF the service you're providing...but this?
This. Is. NOT. ACCEPTABLE. I am never buying a PC game from EA. It's my computer, my privacy, I don't want them watching me in my sleep, thanks.
Fortunately, I'm getting Mass Effect 3 on a console, where the data stealing will be at a minimum because all I do on it it play games.
I have thought long and hard on this, because there are three games I want to play coming out by EA and decided the only choice I have is to hack the hell out of Origin. I will still buy the games, most likely, but I am not going to allow Origin to run on my computer as part of the process. I'll crack whatever files I need to so the game no longer knows if Origin is running or not and simply allows me to play.
And people wonder why piracy is big, it is so we can get around crap like this.
And people wonder why piracy is big, it is so we can get around crap like this.
No dude, you guys aren't getting mad because is wrong or right, you are getting mad because someone tell you to do it. This type of EULA is pretty standard stuff. I'm using the Adobe Reader X as example, well their terms says "get your data" they never said "get the data only related with Adobe products". In some software EULAs you allow them to check your "click patterns". Obvious they guarantee that everything is be collected as non-personally identifying information. But, even so, they are getting your data.PingoBlack said:
So, you are right with disagree with this but, why now? Why nobody get mad with other softwares doing it before?
30 sites reporting a story based on a single tweet are still sites reporting a story on a single tweet.qwerty19411 said:30+ articles support this claim, not just The Escapist [http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&jfkl=true&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&num=100&q=Battlefield+3+retail&ncl=dwyt6amq2KjX5wMOMnvrES9B1mUgM]. And there hasn't been a recant to any of those stories. I'd like to believe people could avoid Origin completely, but even the BF3 blog [http://bf3blog.com/2011/08/origin-required-to-play-battlefield-3/], a site that follows everything Battlefield 3 related, is confirming the published stories are true.Vrach said:Yeah, that's actually my convo with a customer service rep. Someone cross-thread quoted me once for it, but aye, I talked to the person myself, they just said nope.qwerty19411 said:Has any of the articles about "Retail BF3 Requires Origin" been recanted? Because this is the only thing I see people constantly post yet no other sources to back it up.Vrach said:Dramatic title is dramatic... So, anyone checked EA's Privacy Policy, considering it overrides this whole thing according to that last sentence? We've agreed to that policy some billion times by now, I'd imagine it has a clause that forbids things like these, if this concept is new.
Andy Chalk said:
And the whole "BF3 retail requires Origin" is based on the Escapist's tweet dissertation. Which you'll forgive me if I, based on quite a bit of past experience reading incorrect articles based on that and similar venues of info, don't believe for the fraction of a second.
Again, I won't believe it until I've seen it, there's too much "omg, let's jump on everything ActiVision/EA related because they're so evil", to the point of where I've seen what can either be deliberately misinterpreted and misrepresented articles (articles based on sentences/paragraphs pulled out of context) or sheer inability to research what one's reporting on, especially on the Escapist.
This is just further proof the video game industry in it's current form needs to die a quick and hopefully painful death. I have nothing but total and utter disdain for this industry anymore. It's all about how the publishers/developers can get every last penny out of our wallets while screwing us over as hard as they can legally get away with (and sometimes even illegally get away with).
The people in charge now care nothing for actual games and everything about profits and control. The people who actually care about gaming and the customers are being driven out of the industry like cockroaches running from light. Customers are treated like criminals and the actual criminals enjoy a better experience than the paying customers more times than not.
Again, I want the video game industry to fucking die, and die horribly. I want to see anyone who currently works in this disgrace of an industry unemployed. I have no use or sympathy for this industry and the sooner piracy and other factors drive more studios to close their doors the better. This industry is corrupted from the ground up and if it is to ever be rebuilt into something palatable again this current incarnation needs to be burned to the ground leaving nothing remaining.
I stopped being a paying customer a long time ago. It will be a cold day in hell before any maker of video games sees a penny from me. I still play mind you, but I do so in ways where I milk Gamestop's return policy on used games on a weekly basis. In the past year and a half I've given Gamestop 50 dollars for a used title and have to date played most releases through to completion happy in the fact that none of my money is going to the parasites in charge of this industry while I enjoy their products legally for as close to free as makes no difference.
Wrapping this up I will say again that the video game industry needs to meet a quick death if only for it's own good.
The people in charge now care nothing for actual games and everything about profits and control. The people who actually care about gaming and the customers are being driven out of the industry like cockroaches running from light. Customers are treated like criminals and the actual criminals enjoy a better experience than the paying customers more times than not.
Again, I want the video game industry to fucking die, and die horribly. I want to see anyone who currently works in this disgrace of an industry unemployed. I have no use or sympathy for this industry and the sooner piracy and other factors drive more studios to close their doors the better. This industry is corrupted from the ground up and if it is to ever be rebuilt into something palatable again this current incarnation needs to be burned to the ground leaving nothing remaining.
I stopped being a paying customer a long time ago. It will be a cold day in hell before any maker of video games sees a penny from me. I still play mind you, but I do so in ways where I milk Gamestop's return policy on used games on a weekly basis. In the past year and a half I've given Gamestop 50 dollars for a used title and have to date played most releases through to completion happy in the fact that none of my money is going to the parasites in charge of this industry while I enjoy their products legally for as close to free as makes no difference.
Wrapping this up I will say again that the video game industry needs to meet a quick death if only for it's own good.
That's hardly fair, I know a few people who work in the games buisness and they're no happier with the shit that goes on than we are. You can't blame the people making games for the descisions of the board and the practices of the legal department. Most of the time there is as good as zero communication between the two sides of the industry.Xanthious said:
The point is that nobody wins, simply by owning their console you automatically "Agree" to their TOS. There's always some sneaky TOS involved with our games, the difference is that you have to agree to them to use your Xbox (updates and patches) while your PC is still functional. Things like hacking or modding is generally the most common reason for bans on anything, and anyone who does it deserves whatever happens to them.MercurySteam said:
PS. The Sony TOS does say something along the lines of "You'll allow us to watch what you do on any product on the PSN"