Internet Explodes Over Origin's Invasion of Privacy

[satsugaikaze]

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Can you people stop herping and derping for a moment to actually consider both sides of the argument?

In fact, what I got from the revised clause wasn't "backpedalling" at all. It was expanding the terms to explain exactly what the hell they're monitoring your specs and programs for, since everyone and their mother in this thread (and probably thousands of others on the interwebs) believes that EA is out to rape their computer. Hence, repeating several times that the information they obtain is completely anonymous.

It's occurred to very few people in this thread that the TOS might have a purpose other than to steal your identity and sell it to the world.
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But sure, whatever. It's not like people are actually going to think long and hard about this. Most of the posts in this thread are mostly just people clapping their hands over their ears and going "LA LA LA EA IS THE EVIL EMPIRE AND I WILL NOT BUY BATTLEFIELD 3 ANYMORE BECAUSE ORIGIN IS EVIL COMPARED TO STEAM BECAUSE THEY ARE WATCHING US WHEN WE SLEEP"
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The only reason why the "Internet Explodes" over this is because both the people who write and the people who read these news like to blow it out of proportion. Great job, Andy Chalk. You knew what the reaction to this would be, and I hope you liked what you got.
Anything to wage war against the evil gaming monopolies, I suppose.

 

[Iamnotawitch]

Simple solution: separate partition. No loss of privacy other than your IP/hardware stats.

Possiably Win for gaming and Linux for everything else.

 

[Sartan0]

DAMN IT PEOPLE READ THE ACTUAL ToS WITH YOUR EYES OPEN.

It says they will collect information about your COMPUTER and CERTAIN PROGRAMS and that they will NOT share ANY personal information they might have.

Stop being such fucking sheep and learn to think for yourselves. Just because the vapid OP decided to jump to utterly unfounded and ridiculous conclusions doesn't mean you have to.

They should not be be allowed to collect such a vague and wide amount of information such as what programs I have and when I use them and as has been pointed out someone could come in and steal the information they have collected. This ToS is overreach and should be fought so we don't have even more attempted next time. It comes down to trust and frankly many people do not trust EA with that much of their information.

What's difficult about trusting someone with the specs of your computer?

No, people are looking for reasons to be upset about Origin, and it's pathetic.

Now that they have clarified it. They had not before. I still think gamers in general are tired of ToS all together and in effect this is a general backlash against them all at this point. This might lead to a general demand that these companies spell things out more clearly and not over reach as much or at all.

After all, if we accept the arguable fact that these ToS have become effectively unenforceable if challenged then all these companies are accomplishing by having such one sided and long winded ToS is pissed off customers.

 

[pirateninj4]

HOLY SHIT! EA IS TRYING TO FUCK US OVER? WHO WOULDA THUNK IT! Its almost as if no one had every heard of them before...

-.-;

Why is this a surprise to some people?

No shit...of course EA is going to be in the front of the information gathering race.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

I want to see anyone who currently works in this disgrace of an industry unemployed. I have no use or sympathy for this industry and the sooner piracy and other factors drive more studios to close their doors the better.

That's hardly fair, I know a few people who work in the games buisness and they're no happier with the shit that goes on than we are. You can't blame the people making games for the descisions of the board and the practices of the legal department. Most of the time there is as good as zero communication between the two sides of the industry.

They may not like it but they are complicit as to the total corruption that has enveloped the video game industry. Every paycheck they cash is just another nod of approval to the bullshit that goes on. If they were that unhappy about it they wouldn't accept their money and ultimately do their bidding.

Yeah, people should just not work rather than paying their bills and providing for their family... What world do you live in?

Work is hard enough to find these days and money is worth less every year, keeping a steady job you hate is far better than not having anything. 2 years unemployment taught me that much. Most people don't have the option of not working.

Anyway in what way are they complicit, the guys I know only want to provide fun and entertainment to people like us, they don't get to make ANY decisions. Like at all. They get told what to do or told where the door is.

Let me tell ya, I went to school for four years to work in the pharmaceutical field. I worked in that cesspool of an industry for a year and decided, that even though I loved the money I made, knowing that I was taking part in one of the single most corrupt industries in the world ultimately ended up sending me back to school for another degree.

Did piling on even more school debt onto the debt from my first four years suck? Hell yeah it did! Christ, I'm still paying on it. But looking around and seeing all these amazing advancements being held back from people who desperately need them all because the numbers don't work out was something I could not be a part of regardless of the stupid amounts of money I was making. I was in the pharmaceutical field to help people but even though my intentions were nothing but pure I was still doing my part to enable, if only in the tiniest way, the greed driven decisions that hurt many real people.

While admittedly not as serve, your friends in the video game field are in a similar position. They are making the product that these publishers use to screw over gamers. They may well be the salt of the Earth and they may be in an impossible situation but it doesn't change the fact that they are still doing their part to enable the stunts like you see here in the original article.

I'm not saying they are in the wrong but I am saying that if they are truly against the bullshit that goes on in the gaming industry then they are accepting their 30 pieces of silver to take part in what is being done to gamers by these big companies. They are trading on their beliefs to get a paycheck at the end of the day.

If any deserves to be kicked to the curb, and can afford to go jobless for a while, are the teams of lawyers who screw the customers over on behalf of everyone else. I'm willing to bet they get paid better than the coders and developers. You may as well throw in the top 5% of the company who gets the biggest cut of profits and pretty much forcing the behaviors you've seen.

 

[Zeren]

I made this for you all to have fun with.

 

[Cecilthedarkknight_234]

well here is simpler solution, don't install it and stop playing digital copies of games from crappy companies. Even though I am PC gamer I am downgrading and playing simple games like visual novels and PC games from 96-2009 that have actual hard copies with no need for online service.

 

[Slayer_2]

Well, one more strike against BF3, the only reason I'd ever use this shitty "service".

 

[-Dragmire-]

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users? machines. We and agents acting
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA?s legal rights.

So, if I buy a game that has an unreasonable DRM and I have a crack* for it on my computer to disable it, I fall into that "rare instance"?
I don't trust EA to not overreact from a false positive.

*the ethics of software cracks are debatable, the DMCA law is not. I realise that but it still pisses me off...*

D. Application Updates. You agree that the Application may automatically
download and install updates, upgrades and additional features that EA
deems reasonable, beneficial to you and/or reasonably necessary. You
acknowledge and agree that any obligation EA may have to support the
previous version(s) may be ended upon the availability of the update,
upgrade and/or implementation of additional features. This License shall
apply to any updates, upgrades and/or additional features that are not
distributed with a separate license or other agreement.

And it might change into something even more unreasonable.(Usual ToS crap I don't like agreeing to)

C. License Validation. The Application and an internet connection are
required to validate the license for certain products distributed by EA.
You acknowledge and agree that the Application can automatically
validate license rights for some or all EA products without separate
notice to you. This means that in order to use the Application and certain
EA products, you must leave the Application installed on your computer.
You acknowledge and agree that the Application may use information
regarding your computer, hardware, media, software and your use of the
Application to validate your license rights and to update the Application.

And I can't get rid of it if I don't agree with the new ToS but still want to play my games.

.........*clap*......................................*clap*.............................*clap*......................................*clap*..............

..........Great.

 

[Xanthious]

If any deserves to be kicked to the curb, and can afford to go jobless for a while, are the teams of lawyers who screw the customers over on behalf of everyone else. I'm willing to bet they get paid better than the coders and developers. You may as well throw in the top 5% of the company who gets the biggest cut of profits and pretty much forcing the behaviors you've seen.

Oh I do include them! I include everyone drawing a paycheck currently in the gaming industry. I want to see a bloodbath that reaches all the way from the bottom up to the very top. I believe the gaming industry in it's current form needs to be burnt to the ground before it can be rebuilt.

 

[Lim3]

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Can you people stop herping and derping for a moment to actually consider both sides of the argument?

In fact, what I got from the revised clause wasn't "backpedalling" at all. It was expanding the terms to explain exactly what the hell they're monitoring your specs and programs for, since everyone and their mother in this thread (and probably thousands of others on the interwebs) believes that EA is out to rape their computer. Hence, repeating several times that the information they obtain is completely anonymous.

It's occurred to very few people in this thread that the TOS might have a purpose other than to steal your identity and sell it to the world.
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But sure, whatever. It's not like people are actually going to think long and hard about this. Most of the posts in this thread are mostly just people clapping their hands over their ears and going "LA LA LA EA IS THE EVIL EMPIRE AND I WILL NOT BUY BATTLEFIELD 3 ANYMORE BECAUSE ORIGIN IS EVIL COMPARED TO STEAM BECAUSE THEY ARE WATCHING US WHEN WE SLEEP"
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The only reason why the "Internet Explodes" over this is because both the people who write and the people who read these news like to blow it out of proportion. Great job, Andy Chalk. You knew what the reaction to this would be, and I hope you liked what you got.
Anything to wage war against the evil gaming monopolies, I suppose.

You obviously haven't read all the posts. The information itself is extremely valuable, especially to marketers. I also disagree with your critism of this artcile. I highly value my privacy and thus maintain a very limited online presence. If not for this article i wouldn't have been informed to steer clear of EA. In addition articles like this and the outrage they generate let companies know that attempting to include information gathering clauses are interpreted as a violation of consumer privacy by the consumers themselves. If people weren't outraged, or if the information wasn't presented by the media Apple would probably still be gathering information on everyone's movements through use of their iphones.

 

[OrenjiJusu]

And there was me looking for a reason to actually get an origin account...Thats that out the window.

Amazing what they can get you to agree to in a properly worded contract, isn't it?

 

[Raioken18]

I know this may sound stupid but what are they going to do with my information?

Like... they'd have access to uni work I do, work documents, a few porn sites, torrents and my banking details.

I'd still assume my banking details are illegal to obtain and store, and the other stuff is pretty much useless to them. I also assume that whilst being able to access this information that any intellectual properties would still belong to me.

So... why would I care?

Because assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

Be sure that all that information is valuable to someone, starting by EA who can sell it for free from the moment you accept their ToS (at least in the US as far I can see). Not to mention they could simply get hacked, and they are quite likely to be hacked for this sooner or later.

Frankly, I'd be alright with cameras in my house too as long as they weren't broadcast in public. And if they were I think people would get bored pretty fast...

You may find living in Orwell's 1984 a pleasant experience but don't expect others -or at least, me- to agree.

Yeah... I also didn't really get Brave New World either...
It kinda just seemed like people were rebelling against utopian societies for no reason.

Like where I used to work I made programs that did peoples entire jobs... there were 2 reasons I wasn't allowed to officially implement them. (They are still used unofficially 5 years after I left, even though no one currently there has any idea how they work, and all the variables are just valued as my name and nicknames, something that hasn't been noticed yet).

1. With them it reduced about 16 jobs into 8 macros that all together took about 2 hours for 1 person to run. Which would effectively make redundant half the workforce on that floor.

2. To the government computers are viewed as... magic... >_> I'm not kidding, the view that computers could do analysis work by themselves with minimal human input is considered the same as witchcraft.

I left because I got bored of pushing one button a day and spending the rest confined to my desk to await possible economic collapses... something that was still taken into account in macro design.

Anwyay I'm getting away from their point, people are idiots, and on an individual basis, the information that is going to be collected is worthless. It's like filling out a census but you don't need to do anything... except download another invasive program... big whoop, we usually give the same information away for free all the time.

Scare mongering is scary...

 

[GaltarDude1138]

*Raises hand* How is this any different from Steam's Terms of Service/Privacy Policy? More importantly, why should anyone care?

Let's look at this thing, shall we...

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

"You agree that EA may collect, use, store, and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including your IP address)"

Okay, so far, you realize many companies can grab your IP address if they wanted to, right? Whatever your Service Provider is (be it Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, for example) they can pull it up really quick if they wanted to. Also, technical and related information? You realize this just simply asks what your computer is made of, i.e. Linux or Windows. And who could give a crap if EA knows that you're a Mac user, or prefer Windows?

"Peripheral hardware"

So they want to know if you use the big fancy-shmancy USB goggles to beam the ironsights onto your eyesockets when you press the button to raise it to your eye? But seriously, why would'nt EA want to know what people use to play their games, besides the old-fashioned keyboard and mouse?

"EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services"

Unless you will commit suicide because EA might use this info to make another Dead Space Moms Commercial, it's nothing to get worried over. Other companies do this as well. Including Valve.

"Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal"), software, software usage"

So they know that I open Google Chrome a lot. They also know that I rarely open Windows Media Player. Big whoop.

So really, it's nothing to get scared over. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't EA a multi-million, if not multi-billion dollar coporation? I don't think they would knowingly put out spyware, rather they just get flak from our media because people have read over their legal stuff more so than anyone has cared to read Steam's and made a bigger deal out of it.

 

[satsugaikaze]

You obviously haven't read all the posts. The information itself is extremely valuable, especially to marketers. I also disagree with your critism of this artcile. I highly value my privacy and thus maintain a very limited online presence. If not for this article i wouldn't have been informed to steer clear of EA. In addition articles like this and the outrage they generate let companies know that attempting to include information gathering clauses are interpreted as a violation of consumer privacy by the consumers themselves. If people weren't outraged, or if the information wasn't presented by the media Apple would probably still be gathering information on everyone's movements through use of their iphones.

The 'violation of consumer privacy' you wave isn't something a company like EA actively go out of their way to achieve. Color me naive, but the majority of data collected is generally for two purposes, marketing and (in theory) anti-cheating.

Sure, that crack someone recently mentioned to bypass that DRM might be a noble protest against the concept of DRM itself, but would you be surprised if they designed the TOS just to weed out the people who did it, and prevent them from doing the same thing to the products they specifically implemented?

Sure, the information you're handing over to EA is mandatory, but the very fact that it's anonymous says volumes.

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Oh, and hey! Check out some of EA's core Privacy Policy, which has already been updated a month ago (and takes precedence over any conflicts with Origin's TOS:

EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent. We may, however, share anonymous, non-personal, aggregated and/or public information with third parties. There may be circumstances where you may share information on your own. Please see section XI for more details about your rights to information you share publicly on EA and other third party sites and forums. You may also opt in to allow EA to share your personal information with companies and organizations that provide products or services that we believe may be of interest to you. To opt out of further communications from a marketing partner or sponsor with whom your information has been shared, please contact that partner or sponsor directly.

...

From time to time, EA employs third party contractors to collect personal information on our behalf to provide email delivery, product, prize or promotional fulfillment, contest administration, credit card processing, shipping or other services on our sites. When requesting these services, you may be asked to supply your name, mailing address, telephone number and email address to our contractors. We ask some third party contractors, such as credit agencies, data analytics or market research firms, to supplement personal information that you provide to us for our own marketing and demographic studies, so that we can consistently improve our sites and related advertising to better meet our visitors' needs and preferences. To enrich our understanding of individual customers, we tie this information to the personal information you provide to us.

When our third party agents or service providers collect and/or have access any information other than non-personal, anonymous and/or aggregated data, EA requires that they use data consistently with our stated privacy policies and protect the confidentiality of personal information they collect or have access to in the course of their engagement by EA. These third parties are prohibited from using your personal information for any other purpose without your specific consent.

You will be notified before your personal information is collected by any third party that is not our agent/service provider, so you can make an informed choice as to whether or not to share your information with that party.

We may also access and disclose personal information, including personal communications, in connection with report abuse functions in our products and services, to enforce legal rights and comply with the law, or to comply with an order from a government entity or other competent authority, or when we have reason to believe that a disclosure is necessary to address potential or actual injury or interference with our rights, property, operations, users or others who may be harmed or may suffer loss or damage, or when we believe that disclosure is necessary to protect our rights, combat fraud and/or comply with a judicial proceeding, court order, or legal process served on EA. Note that certain publically available information you post and communicate on our and third party sites and services is public information for which you have no expectation of privacy. See Section XI for more details.

tl;dr, no-one's going to find out where you live unless you opt in for marketing, or if you've been hacking the hell out of EA's games. Also, if you want to get into specifics, they've divided your EA profile details between "personal" and "non-personal" information, where "non-personal" means your usage of EA products and simultaneously used third-party programs, and "personal" is the stuff that everyone thinks EA is going to sell to the rapists and murderers of the world and let them into their homes.

 

[lapan]

I'm not gonna buy any game that will be exclusively released on orgin.

 

[Griffolion]

I believe this image explains it adequately: