Internet Petition Demands Dark Souls Drop GFWL

[SargentToughie]

-_- Did it realy need to jump right to the petition? Couldn't you guys use less annoying means like emailing them your complaints?

So bombarding the dev's inbox with emails is less annoying then a bunch of people signing one mass letter?

 

[Adultratedhydra]

Ah GFWL. What a piece of crap. Ruined Section 8: Prejudice. Cannot complete a single game, GFWL always decides that i dont need to complete the match and DC's me.

 

[soulfire130]

-_- Did it realy need to jump right to the petition? Couldn't you guys use less annoying means like emailing them your complaints?

So bombarding the dev's inbox with emails is less annoying then a bunch of people signing one mass letter?

I'll be honest and say it was hard trying to find a example (which I apparently failed at doing). What I was trying to get at was there has to be another way of letting the devs know about the consumers disapproval other than having a petition say "Change this NOW!" That's all I'm saying.

 

[Baresark]

I am still looking forward to this game on the PC, which by all accounts should be a much better version than either console version. I don't want GFWL, I hate it. But I will suffer it to play this game on my PC. As soon as I heard that it will be getting a definite PC release, I shelved my PS3 version.

I don't think people understand the concept of baby steps. We want them to feel that the PC is a worthwhile platform and that means helping them along and not offering ultimatums like, "Steam or No Sale". That is just stupid. I have mostly not had any problems with GFWL with a few exceptions, so I'm hoping this gets by without issues. When push comes to shove, it's not always fun to be invaded, and I never bother invading anyone. The only time I get help on the game is when I really am having trouble with a boss.

I'm not out to alienate them so we don't get future games from them. They do have another Souls game in the works and I would love for them to have a PC version out of the gate. Truth be told, if GFWL is a problem they will hear about it from customers. Worst case scenario, you just play solo. Which contrary to popular belief, doesn't change the game experience all that much. It's not really an integral part of the game as much as it is a cool feature.

 

[Baresark]

Hope the port fails to profit. Teach them idiots a lesson.

That'll teach them alright. They just won't bother putting anymore games on the PC again, haha.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I love Steam, but "no Steam or no sale" applies to say many games no it's not funny, and Steam's monopoly is not a good thing for the industry. I for one am more disappointed than angry in Origin, for example; what could have been genuine competition for Steam from a big name in the industry is instead an intrusive and much maligned piece of trash. Same with GFWL - both show potential, and both are held back by wildly illogical design decisions.

I'd rather every game was either sold without DRM, or sold on a wide variety of platforms. "Steam or bust" just reeks of pettiness, but it's also a dangerous sort of petty; the kind that sees a lot of games from a lot of developers sweeped under the carpet because they aren't selling on Steam. It's stupid, and it gives Steam a hand up that it hasn't earned.

 

[SargentToughie]

I'll be honest and say it was hard trying to find a example (which I apparently failed at doing). What I was trying to get at was there has to be another way of letting the devs know about the consumers disapproval other than having a petition say "Change this NOW!" That's all I'm saying.

Actually, I can't think of anything more civilized then a petition. And it's not so much a case of them saying "Change this NOW" as much as it is them saying "Change this or we won't buy your game".

Would you rather them just pull a Retake Mass Effect and sent Namco 400 cupcakes, except all the icing was replaced with poo? It's a perfectly good cupcake underneath, and Namco might have wanted this brand of cupcake for a long, LONG time, but the poo on top totally ruins it as a whole.

... I wonder where exactly in my train of thought my pointing at Retake Mass Effect turned into an analogy for GFWL... I swear it wasn't intentional when I started typing this post.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

I would take ANYTHING over GFWL. Even *shudder* Origin. And I hate Origin.

 

[soulfire130]

I'll be honest and say it was hard trying to find a example (which I apparently failed at doing). What I was trying to get at was there has to be another way of letting the devs know about the consumers disapproval other than having a petition say "Change this NOW!" That's all I'm saying.

Actually, I can't think of anything more civilized then a petition. And it's not so much a case of them saying "Change this NOW" as much as it is them saying "Change this or we won't buy your game".

Would you rather them just pull a Retake Mass Effect and sent Namco 400 cupcakes, except all the icing was replaced with poo? It's a perfectly good cupcake underneath, and Namco might have wanted this brand of cupcake for a long, LONG time, but the poo on top totally ruins it as a whole.

... I wonder where exactly in my train of thought my pointing at Retake Mass Effect turned into an analogy for GFWL... I swear it wasn't intentional when I started typing this post.

I understand. Its just that it feels like people will form a petition over everything.

Also, the Retake Mass Effect thing is still on everyone minds right now so it undertandable to have used it as an analogy.

 

[Roboto]

Thing is, the older you get and the more indentured you become in the business, the more you find out EVERYTHING in the entire games and systems industry boils down to the all powerful cost benefits analysis. There wasn't going to be a port, someone initially crunched the numbers and said "no way, waste." Then 93,000 sigs popped into existence, and even taking away 20,000 of those as bandwagon and another 10,000 for piracy buffer of those sigs gives you 63,000 buys. It's not absolute math as it is speculative and I have no way to back up those numbers, but neither do they, and sometimes speculation is the only way we can get results. Anyway, 63,000 x profit margin = TotalProfitFromPort. TotalProfitFromPort > CostOfPort = PortGetsMade. The initial value to the crunchers had totalprofitfromport much lower I assume, which is why it doesn't get made. Same reason Halo 3 never got a PC edition. What this newest petition does is subtract from TotalProfitFromPort. My last post encompasses that variable.

Either way, you may have heard "decide with your wallet" which can be frustrating to hear because you may like the property but there is a part of it you hate and do not want to support. Not buying it to teach them a lesson means not getting the part you want, and the potential to cause a misunderstanding that the part you wanted WAS the bad part that made you not buy it. Oops. That is what stops the sequel from being made. What these guys did is do a Commander Shepard: they took a third option. Tell the company that a lot of us do not like a specific part of the product, but that we love all the rest of it (seems obvious). Now here is the exact number of us who do not like that specific part.

It is all a numbers game. They have samples and numbers of their own, we're just providing them with our own numbers to help them exact things out. It has always been a numbers game and always will be. You know this for yourself though as you do seem smart. We're just so used to seeing all those numbers from one side (devs) and it is interesting that it is all swinging the other way; seeing numbers coming from the gamer side and actually impacting things is unusual and so I would qualify that as news, or even a trend.

I agree with a large majority of this. I'm just saying. It'd be like me not having enough cookies, and you not having one. I go bake you a special cookie that takes up a lot of my time and effort. Then, you decide that I didn't use the right chocolate chips in my cookie, and you throw it in my face. Isn't that a bit of a dick move?

In your scenario yes, dick move. Now if we exacerbate on it a bit, and me and my 97,000 friends were waving money in front of you to make us that special cookie. You relent and make that cookie, and while making it, you accidentally and not to your knowledge grab the cayenne pepper, the lid falls off while you're not watching, and bake it up. Now, don't get me wrong, a few people may like this different taste. But the vast majority are going to get burned. Same principle as not everything free is good: if someone leaves a bag of dog shit on your porch, that's free but undesirable. Since money is involved, we can't really use kindness of our hearts as arguments, which kind of kills what I just mentioned.

Maybe it wasn't even an accident. Maybe you thought I like cayenne pepper in cookies. What the petition is showing is that no, we do not like that flavor. Not in my cookies.

 

[Taerdin]

I agree with a large majority of this. I'm just saying. It'd be like me not having enough cookies, and you not having one. I go bake you a special cookie that takes up a lot of my time and effort. Then, you decide that I didn't use the right chocolate chips in my cookie, and you throw it in my face. Isn't that a bit of a dick move?

A corporation is not your friend. A corporation doesn't get hurt when you don't enjoy the things they create.

When you go into a restaurant if you order food and you legit don't like that food and have a decent enough reason they go out of their way to make it right.

Your analogy fails horribly.

I'm far less disturbed by customers telling businesses what they want to spend their money on (you know, the free market), and far more disturbed by the trend to stifle or discourage all critical thoughts and opinions by using derogatory terms like whiners, bitching, and analogies that make no sense.

But hey I'm sure you have your reasons for defending the unfeeling corporations which exist only to make money from the burden of having to spend a tiny bit more money and time to meet the simple requests of their customers. I mean why should people get what they want when corporations can make 2% more profits this year?

 

[SargentToughie]

I understand. Its just that it feels like people will form a petition over everything.

Also, the Retake Mass Effect thing is still on everyone minds right now so it undertandable to have used it as an analogy.

It's cool, I can sorta see how some people can find this kind of activism annoying.

This IS the second petition almost back to back about the same game that PC gamers have kicked up. It doesn't take a lot to please us, I swear, just stop trying to dick us over and we'll absolutely love you for it.

Take note, developers.

 

[viranimus]

I signed the petition, begrudgingly.

GFWL is bad. Incredi-bad. It ruined my experience in Arkham City because it was like this clock ticking on my PC forcing me to rush through the game JUST so I could get those unness. processes uninstalled from my PC.

However, Even though I called it not being on Steam I dont see Steam being much better, because its trading one set of problems for another. Owning the PS3 version of which it was preordered I had intended also preorder the PC version. Not because I need two copies, but because I wanted to support From Software in producing more Souls games.

However, placing it on steam so I can have a license instead of owning it is really not going to encourage me to buy it. (Not that GFWL did anything different)

Honestly? Id like to see them do the right thing. Talk to the guys over at GoG and release it DRM free as it should be. Though Amazon downloads is sufficient if for the inexplicable reason GoG is not. I knew it would not be on steam. Im actually surprised people just assumed it would be on steam. I really dont care if its on steam or not.

The ONLY justification I can see to support one license platform over another, is that steam would likely make multiplayer connectivity more usable.

Now I will not say No steam/No Sale but by going with GFWL exclusively it has greatly reduced the priority of this for me. It just went from preorder to a wait and see. and Honestly, steam would only further facilitate that for me, because if it was offered on GFWL AND steam only, I would not buy until the title was like 5-10$ on steam. Sorry but its true. If its released via GoG I will preorder. Otherwise, no.

 

[Agayek]

Master race? Hahahaha that's funny. haha hah haaaaaaaah.

But seriously, what's with that?

Watch any of Yahtzee's videos about the Witcher games and you'll get the joke.

Edit: On topic, I'm definitely not part of the "no steam, no sale" group, but I most certainly am part of the "yes GFWL, no sale" group. That thing is a colossal piece of shit that needs to just die already.

 

[Arina Love]

Just play the damn game if you like the game. Don't like GFWL that much? - don't buy said game, simple as that.

 

[Thoric485]

It's not a dealbreaker for me, but I'll be really, really happy if they got rid of it.

And I like this petition thing - if it reaches 1/3 of 1/2 of the "Dark Souls for PC" votes, it'd give Namco something to think about. Though I'm pretty doubtful they'd break their contract with Microsoft.

 

[Knuckles]

I have to say that my feelings about the news that Dark Souls was coming to the PC and then hearing later it has GFWL, is like getting to sleep with the prom queen and then hearing later she has AIDS.

But like many other users I have had troubles with GFWL, not only for multiplayer but singleplayer games as well. First heart break was that I couldn't play SFIV online, then I decided that I should not buy any GFWL game that I wanted to play online. Then I got Bulletstorm, and that took forever to get working (downloading patches and restarts again and again), and I was only trying to play singleplayer mode.
There haven't been many other GFWL games that I have bought, and Bulletstorm is probably the last one I ever will. So in the future I am not going to allow myself to get excited about a pc game until I know for sure it's not infected by GFWL.

On another note, I am no big fan of Steam but I have spent 1000s of hours playing TF2, L4D and Brink multiplayer as well a lot of singleplayer games as well, so I think it's adequate.
So on final note, I think a game that has a strong multiplayer element like Dark Souls (and Demon's Souls before it) should take care in selecting a online component that works. There are a lot of anecdotal evidence to find online about GFWL's problems, some written by gamers who are also computer professional as well, so it shouldn't be taken lightly.

I just registered to make this comment, but I guess I should go back to lurker mode by now.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

If some shitty program that in all reality takes five seconds to ignore gets in the way of you buying a game you like, you're an idiot. Yeah, yeah, it's cute how you're taking your little stand and all, but no one else cares.

It's like the Origin crap; yeah, I don't like it either, but not once did it ever get in the way of anything I have ever done with games that use it.

But whatever. Quick, everyone! Jump on the hate GFWL boat while you still can! It's so cool.