Introduction

[rofltehcat]

I've heard some interesting rumors about a B/U control deck using Heartless Summoning [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244678] to pump out Rune-Scarred Demons [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=220130] and Phyrexian Metamorphs [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214375] (as more demons, of course) as the endgame.

You mean this one? http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/171

It sounds great and I've read through a few of those "building on a budget" posts today (damn you, author, you probably got me hooked again!!!) but man... I'm sure that for "good"/lower tourney-level decks, the cards used are low-cost but I looked some of those up and it really adds up quite quickly.

Also, I don't really get what is control in this deck... I really don't know whether 4 interrupts and 3 creature-destruction cards are enough control and allow to slow down the enemy enough... though that demon combo sounds really powerful if you get to it.

 

[Smokescreen]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

 

[DarkRyter]

I run a RW based on Rage Extractor, a Mono White based on New Phyrexia, and a new mono black based on Cairn Wanderer.

I'm not that great, and nothing I make is legal in standard because I don't really go to tournaments or anything(just play at the lunch table against friends)

 

[crepesack]

Control will never come back. Combo might not either. WotC have stated that they don't want control to ever be the meta again. They said control was not the play style they wanted. It promoted bad games that were long and drawn out and was really prohibitive to new players. I mean if you're just starting would you want to sit for 25 minutes while your permanents kept getting bounced, your lands got tapped out and your spells countered?

I thoroughly disagree but this is the truth of mtg now and forever.

And yes, I'm a big fan of combo decks too. My Scapeshift deck is still my best deck in multiplayer formats like twin headed giant.

Aggro is so incredibly stupid imo. It promotes bad play styles in new players: over extension, poor resource management and mindless play. Fae control was probably the last good control set we're going to get...

 

[ShadowKatt]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

Ah, nevermind. I had to ask what the card was and look it up again. The card that pisses me off so much is Guardian of the Guildpact, and it's got PROTECTION from monocolored.

Not hexproof, but still bullshit. it's not the strongest, but it's unrestricted and almost untouchable since according to what I was told, a creature that is protected(say from red) can't be targeted, damaged, or blocked by that color. The Guardian of the Guildpact, therefore, can't be blocked by almost ANYTHING, can't be hurt by almost ANYTHING, and can't be targeted by almost ANYTHING. Unless I understand protection wrong.

 

[Redweaver]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Damage from an artifact source is considered colorless, so hexproof v mono-colored(?) wouldn't block that. Also, untargeted effects (Wrath of God) or cards that make your opponent sacrifice a creature when the hexproof one is his/her only option (Dark Banishing) will also work.

Hexproof is nice, especially in limited formats, but not all that.

The more you learn the intricacies of the rules, the more you'll realize that everything has multiple counters and nothing is as OP as it looks at first glance.

*edit*
I should read the thread more before replying, but my post still seems valid.

 

[fangclaw]

i may be stupid, which is a likely possibility, but i need some help with darksteel sentinal.
it says it is indestructible and that lethal damage doesn't destroy it, but that it is still put in the graveyard if it's toughness hits zero. so what does that mean? in my head im thinking this means that its toughness can't go below 1 by simple battle but im also pretty sure im wrong. so help please.

Well,

Damage doesn't reduce toughness as such; it's that if you've been dealt as much damage as your toughness, that is 'lethal' damage.

But it can be killed by -1/-1 counters or by cards like last grasp. (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89056)

So any amount of regular damage won't kill it. It also doesn't get killed by cards which 'destroy' it (like doom blade). But it is killed by having zero toughness, or which remove it from the game (like revoke existance) or which make you sacrifice it (like cruel edict).

Does that help?

i may be stupid, which is a likely possibility, but i need some help with darksteel sentinal.
it says it is indestructible and that lethal damage doesn't destroy it, but that it is still put in the graveyard if it's toughness hits zero. so what does that mean? in my head im thinking this means that its toughness can't go below 1 by simple battle but im also pretty sure im wrong. so help please.

Minus counters are one way.

Such as with:

Since the counter stays on the card all you need to do is put 3 of them on Darksteel Sentinl turning it from a 3/3 to a 0/0 killing it. Also, it is still effect by remove from the game spells like Path to Exile.

Edit: Ninja'd by mrverbal, but mine has proper visual aids!

thanks to both of you, your responses help, but they are not really what i was after, i think.
you see, it is my card and it seems like a really good card, but i don't want to use it until this one issue is resolved.
let me give you a senario:
i attack with darksteel sentinal (3/3) and my opponent blocks with a (2/2) and a (1/1) neither of which have abilities.
does darksteel sentinal still take damage?
what if i was instead blocked by a (3/3) monster instead?

 

[mrverbal]

Control will never come back. Combo might not either. WotC have stated that they don't want control to ever be the meta again. They said control was not the play style they wanted. It promoted bad games that were long and drawn out and was really prohibitive to new players. I mean if you're just starting would you want to sit for 25 minutes while your permanents kept getting bounced, your lands got tapped out and your spells countered?

I thoroughly disagree but this is the truth of mtg now and forever.

And yes, I'm a big fan of combo decks too. My Scapeshift deck is still my best deck in multiplayer formats like twin headed giant.

Aggro is so incredibly stupid imo. It promotes bad play styles in new players: over extension, poor resource management and mindless play. Fae control was probably the last good control set we're going to get...

I'm sorry, but have you been not paying attention the last 12 months?

You had cawblade, a control deck, utterly dominating the format - to the extent that two of its cards got banned. You had three or four good combo decks - things like splinter-twin and pyro-ascencion.

You have solarflare and UB control, and UW control, which are all viable.

The top 8 is not necessarily an ideal view of how well the various standard decks went; someone could have gone 3-3 on the standard day and blitzed days two and three. Looking at the 4-2 or better standard decks (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds11/topstd) you have a fair number of control decks - including Andrew Cuneo's undefeated deck with two creatures, total. And most of the other undefeated decks are wolf run ramp, which is sure as hell not an aggro deck.

Fangclaw

thanks to both of you, your responses help, but they are not really what i was after, i think.
you see, it is my card and it seems like a really good card, but i don't want to use it until this one issue is resolved.
let me give you a senario:
i attack with darksteel sentinal (3/3) and my opponent blocks with a (2/2) and a (1/1) neither of which have abilities.
does darksteel sentinal still take damage?
what if i was instead blocked by a (3/3) monster instead?

If your opponent blocks with a 2/2 and a 1/1 with no abilities, then the following happens.

1) You order the defenders. We'll assume the order makes no difference, but it happens anyway.
2) They assign 2 damage and 1 damage to your guy. You assign 2 and 1 back.
3) State based effects are checked.

Two creatures - the 1/1 and the 2/2 - have suffered lethal damage, have no relevant text, and therefor are put in a graveyard.

Another creature - the 3/3 - has suffered lethal damage. However, it is indestructable, so the game rules determine that nothing further occurs. It has still taken three damage, but can't be killed by damage, so it survives (and has still taken three damage, if somehow it stops being indestructable it will die).

At the end of the turn, the three damage clears from the sentinal and then game continues.

Blocking with a 3/3 makes no difference in this situation.

 

[GothmogII]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

Sacred Wolf with Divine Favour, Spirit Mantle and Angelic Destiny on it. Hate. Hate. Hate. xD

 

[GeorgW]

~snip~

Welcome to The Escapist, nice article!

This will be very exciting. Given how big Magic is in some of the circles around here, this was a long time coming.

As for my own experience with Magic, I've played TCGs since I first discovered the Pokémon TCG, and have been experimenting with others since then. As a kid I only cared about having every card, not what they did. Last year in high school a lot of people started playing Magic on breaks, and I was interested to learn more. I got to loan a few different deck after watching and learning the ropes, and got a taste for the game. I continued to borrow different decks and had a lot of fun at no expense. This year a lot of the old players moved on to college, but the ones remaining have gotten the new student hooked. Therefore, there's always at least one game a day. My girlfriend no longer plays Magic, but she still has the cards, and I've been playing with them at school. My favourite of hers is a semi-standard white knight deck (Knight exemplar FTW!), it's great for school since it can be used effectively no matter what strategy the other one is using. It's always a lot of fun, and I've yet to spend a single cent on cards. I've been thinking about buying some and getting started, I've always had an affinity for white combo/control decks, but I so enjoy trying out new decks and strategies, and not having a deck of my own forces me to do just that.
I'm a very casual player as you might have been able to deduce, but given that I'm surrounded with some pretty hardcore people I can still understand everything in the article. I'll be looking forward to the next one.

EDIT: I like your deck, I would have built it differently, but it still seems like a lot of fun and well thought out.

EDIT2: Oh, and I forgot. Will you have the LRR crowd as guest columnists or comment on their decks? I think it'd be a really fun cross-promotion kind of thing, might get this column some more attention.

 

[Smokescreen]

snip

Ah, nevermind. I had to ask what the card was and look it up again. The card that pisses me off so much is Guardian of the Guildpact, and it's got PROTECTION from monocolored.

Not hexproof, but still bullshit. it's not the strongest, but it's unrestricted and almost untouchable since according to what I was told, a creature that is protected(say from red) can't be targeted, damaged, or blocked by that color. The Guardian of the Guildpact, therefore, can't be blocked by almost ANYTHING, can't be hurt by almost ANYTHING, and can't be targeted by almost ANYTHING. Unless I understand protection wrong.

Artifact creatures can block it and that particular card was printed in a block where there were a lot of multi-colored creatures (and they went on to print even more [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&set=|[%22Shadowmoor%22]|[%22Eventide%22]&type=+[%22Creature%22]].) That doesn't even include all the multicolored spells available.

A 2/3 for four mana should not be giving you that much trouble: You still have 11 turns to come up with a solution and there are many. You could just beat down or cast bigger, trampler creatures.

I'm not saying it isn't a pain in the ass; clearly it is. I'm just saying that there are ways for you to get around this--and since you aren't dealing with 'cast Empty the Warrens [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109735] for 13' on turn two, you've got a fighting chance.

Sacred Wolf with Divine Favour, Spirit Mantle and Angelic Destiny on it. Hate. Hate. Hate. xD

Sounds like you need more Pyroclasm/Naturalize in your life.

 

[Redweaver]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

Sacred Wolf with Divine Favour, Spirit Mantle and Angelic Destiny on it. Hate. Hate. Hate. xD

And a single bounce spell clears three cards from the board. I'll take that trade.

 

[GothmogII]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

Sacred Wolf with Divine Favour, Spirit Mantle and Angelic Destiny on it. Hate. Hate. Hate. xD

And a single bounce spell clears three cards from the board. I'll take that trade.

Which bounce spell would this be? Scared Wolf has Hexproof, though, I know, spells that don't specify a target still work on it, in that regard it only takes one damage and it's toast ala Pyroclasm.

I guess, a lot of it is assuming you've got the right cards in your deck, and at the right time in your hand. In which case Naturalise would indeed as someone mentioned be very handy in taking care of the enchantments. Especially due to Angelic Destiny's nasty habit of going straight back into an opponent's library rather than the graveyard when it's creature is killed. :/

That said...is there a rule that says your opponent has to tell you what type of deck he's using before a match starts? Because I think I'd win a lot more matches if I could get at least an idea beforehand...but, that's what the sideboard is for as far as I understand it, giving you an opportunity to swap out cards.

Edit: Sorry, already forgetting my terminology, by bounce you mean counter, right? Ah, *hugs* Mana Leak.

 

[Redweaver]

how interesting. I really only looked at the column because I recently learned what hexproof REALLY means, and how much that pissed me off. I play against someone that has a card that's hexproof against mono-colored. Which means against all my decks, and I have about a dozen, they're better than indestructible. At least an indestructible I could use something like Alter of LIght on it and remove it from the game. Against hexproof, even THAT doesn't work because Alter of Light(and indeed 90% of all magic cards) are mono-colored.

That is BULLSHIT.

Easy there, big fella. Have you tried mass removal spells? Because those pretty much take care of the Hexproof problem.

Trust me, Hexproof is nothing compared to a mechanic like Storm.

Sacred Wolf with Divine Favour, Spirit Mantle and Angelic Destiny on it. Hate. Hate. Hate. xD

And a single bounce spell clears three cards from the board. I'll take that trade.

Which bounce spell would this be? Scared Wolf has Hexproof, though, I know, spells that don't specify a target still work on it, in that regard it only takes one damage and it's toast ala Pyroclasm.

I guess, a lot of it is assuming you've got the right cards in your deck, and at the right time in your hand. In which case Naturalise would indeed as someone mentioned be very handy in taking care of the enchantments. Especially due to Angelic Destiny's nasty habit of going straight back into an opponent's library rather than the graveyard when it's creature is killed. :/

That said...is there a rule that says your opponent has to tell you what type of deck he's using before a match starts? Because I think I'd win a lot more matches if I could get at least an idea beforehand...but, that's what the sideboard is for as far as I understand it, giving you an opportunity to swap out cards.

Edit: Sorry, already forgetting my terminology, by bounce you mean counter, right? Ah, *hugs* Mana Leak.

That's what I get for not looking up the wolf first.

Still, Umbilicus, Blood Clock or Diabolic Edict would do it, tho those are forced sacs rather than a bounce (unsummon, boomerang).

Does untargeted damage or counter additions like Pesilence or Engineered Plague still bypass hexproof? There have been just enough rule changes that I haven't always kept up with that I'm unsure.

To be honest though, I personally wouldn't bounce as blue is not really my color. You'd prolly get a Wrath of God from me.

*edit*

Or to be even more precise, there's no way in hell you'd get all three of those enchantments on that one wolf to begin with. =)

And, no, you are not required to divulge anything at all about your deck to your opponent.

 

[darkerthought7]

On Indestructible:
Damage on creatures, when it reaches or exceeds their toughness, destroys them. If a Darksteel Sentinel was blocked by a 3/3 or a 2/2 and a 1/1, it would take a total of 3 damage, reducing it to 0 toughness. However, it cannot be "destroyed," and this includes destruction from damage. Doom Blade and the like will also not function. If it is removed from play (either put into exile or put in the graveyard as a state-based action from having a toughness of 0 through counters or Tragic Slip or some other means that is NOT damage), that will happen as usual.

Also, I like the use of Darksteel Sentinel. My favorite use of him: Worldslayer, and possibly a Distortion Strike or two.

 

[glowing]

i think its not a correct place for introducing myself, but if i am right just bare my stupidity. So here's my introduction - this is Glowing from Sn Diego, i am a teacher and a health enthusiastic.