Irish SOPA law has passed today
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If by "made a difference" you mean 'devalued the injustice imposed on the people they claimed to represent by bringing nothing but misery and destruction to innocents though their own misguided aggression and bigotry', then yes.Volf said:
Edit: OT: and we call ourselves the free world. SOPA and its ilk have just made it clear to me that democracy is just another form of dictatorship in its own way, except rather than governments oppressing the people, it's governments allowing greedy, self-interested individuals to oppress the people. Remember, in politics, principles can always be ignored when they become inconvenient.
I'm going to go cry in the corner now.
Your profile says your from the UK, so it seems like you might have a bias.NinjaDeathSlap said:
As I said, I'm not referring to the current IRA, but the "original" IRA
I'm sorry what? This is like saying that the French Resistance in the Second World War was wrong Look sometimes you have to use armed resistance. Yes I do think in the long term that Ireland being independent was inevitable however armed struggle speed that up much quicker.NinjaDeathSlap said:
Look the IRA actions in the north after it became clear that it wasn't going to be part of the Republic were different, but in the South the struggle for Independence was IMHO a good and right thing and the IRA was the instrument through which it was carried out.
Why yes indeed, I am from the UK. It may also interest you to know that I have links to the British armed forces so I am well aware of how this could be interpreted. However, my mother's side of the family are actually from Belfast, and were driven out of their home by sectarian violence. So believe me, I know both sides. I admitted in my post that the people the IRA claimed they were fighting for did suffer injustice. I don't deny that. However, in my book people lose any sympathy I may have had for their plight the moment they take out their anger on innocent people, or to even endorse those actions. Nothing excuses terrorism, nothing.Volf said:
I'm not clear what you mean by the 'current' IRA. I know what the IRA was originally, but the terrorist organisation that it became isn't exactly what I'd call 'current' anymore. The peak of it's activity was almost half a century ago. In 'current' terms the IRA doesn't even exist anymore as one central organisation.
Let me start off by saying that, while I'm fully aware that the British occupation of Eire was morally suspect at best, we were not the Nazi's.370999 said:
Second. Yes, the IRA's liberation of the South was justified. However, I am of the opinion that what they went on to become and the acts of terror they committed then undermined the credibility they had before. The moment you resort to terrorism to achieve your aims, you make a mockery of everything you stand for, in my opinion.
You might not have been Nazi's, but the same can't be said for the people who took part in Bloody Sunday(the 1920 and the 1972 one). Also the black and tans are far from innocent peopleNinjaDeathSlap said:
I'm actually daring to feel slightly positive. David Cameron being the staunch supported of the Union that he is, I reckon he'll be determined to do the exact opposite of everything the Irish government says is a good idea.Andaxay said:
NinjaDeathSlap said:
Perhaps there needs to be another Bobby Sands, who can tackle the passing of this bill.
I've heard a lot of people quietly mention that the SOPA-esque bills won't have anywhere near the impact we believe, and we are actually just allowing ourselves to be manipulated by the pirates that fear their affluent businesses will go down the pan, and because we really like stealing music and movies and pretending there's nothing wrong with it.Th3Ch33s3Cak3 said:I have a feeling I'll be flamed for this, but I feel like the only person on this island to support the law
At the very least it will be interesting to see how this actually pans out.
Remember a couple of years ago when there were mass protests to save Youtube, because they were deleting all the copyrighted full length movies on it? Everyone was crying that it would kill Youtube. Obviously it did not.
SodaDew said:
Today, they take away your Internet. But what of tomorrow? What then? Do the Executives take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? Your very lives? And what does the Government do? Nothing! Nay, worse than nothing! the Imperial machine enforces the will of the Corporations! Against its own people! So rise up! Rise up, children of the Internet! Rise up, Stormcloaks! Embrace the word of mighty Talos, he who is both man and Divine! For we are the children of man! And we shall inherit the heavens and earth! And we, not the Elves or their toadies, will rule The Internet! Forever!"
Well a lot of Europeans seemed to think it was so funny when it was happening in the US...karma's a *****...
Ok, done venting. Seriously, this whole copyright thing has got to fucking stop. Can't the government go back to like obsessing over drugs or terrorists or something? You know, something that actually hurt someone, rather than make it slightly harder for a few billionaire execs to gold plate their mansions? Do these people just have nothing better to do?
Oh, I got an idea. Now, I'm not a politician, and my knowledge of government is rudimentary at best, but I have a bit of an action plan for you government types. Simple 3 part plan.
1.)STFU about copyrights and get out of Hollywood's pocket.
2.)Take like 10% of the energy you put into obsessing over copyrights.
3.)Use that to fix the damn economy instead of spending more money to keep a couple of suits happy.
Ok, done venting. Seriously, this whole copyright thing has got to fucking stop. Can't the government go back to like obsessing over drugs or terrorists or something? You know, something that actually hurt someone, rather than make it slightly harder for a few billionaire execs to gold plate their mansions? Do these people just have nothing better to do?
Oh, I got an idea. Now, I'm not a politician, and my knowledge of government is rudimentary at best, but I have a bit of an action plan for you government types. Simple 3 part plan.
1.)STFU about copyrights and get out of Hollywood's pocket.
2.)Take like 10% of the energy you put into obsessing over copyrights.
3.)Use that to fix the damn economy instead of spending more money to keep a couple of suits happy.
No you weren't that's true. However you still were an occupying force. It's not suspect but wrong. I'm not going to rant about you about English sins as honestly if the boot was on the other foot I'm pretty sure we would of done the same but still...NinjaDeathSlap said:
What time period of IRA action are we talking about may I ask? As the part I'm interested in defending is the from the Easter Rising (1916) to the end of the War of Independence (1919-1921) as I am not confident in my knowledge of the actions that took place in the North.
The Irish war of Independence was fought primarily through the sue of guerrilla warfare. No guerrilla warfare is even more ugly then regular wars but if you are fighting against a power which is so much stronger it's pretty much the only thing states can do.
There was indeed the use of terror tactics in the war, Michael's Collin's squad engaged in day light assassination of individuals who were working with the Crown force and there was some acts of arson but Irish men in farms in England, however the military component of the IRA campaign was heavily based on the use of Flying columns throughout campaign, though the action was mostly restricted to the Munster, though my home county of Longford has a lot of action take place (the house where my great grandparents lived was actually used as a safe-house during the war)
While there was ongoing discussion within the Dail as to what form the fighting should take, de Valera wanted it to be more conventional as he though that would be better, the reality was the to win the war, and if Ireland was fighting she should be trying to win,. was that she had to get her hands dirty.
Your terrorism concept is one that is often said but I disagree. I think it is a horrid thing for innocent's to die but the neccesity of Ireland lacking her independence meant she was justified in targeting members of the RIC.
Did I ever say they were? I know we oppressed Ireland, and I consider our actions there to be one of the biggest black marks in our history (and coming from us that's saying something). All I'm saying is that I don't think oppression excuses terrorism.Volf said:
Volf said:
Stop it. I was wrong to bring up that allusion, I was more trying to point out pushing out an imperialist then someone similar to the Nazi's. The Black and tans were poor guys, who were desperate for a job int eh economic climate they were in, were sent to somewhere which was a bit of a shithole and were the population hated them and were not properly disciplined or controlled.
Yes they fucked up and did evil things but they aren't evil soulless monsters.
I can see where you're coming from, but I think we may have to agree to disagree. I believe that if a fight is just then it should be about more than just winning it. It should be about winning it while still retaining the moral high ground. Now that doesn't necessarily have to mean going head to head against impossible odds on an open field of battle, but there is a line between guerrilla tactics, and terrorism; a line I don't think should ever be crossed. Or at least, if you're going to cross it, I don't think you can then make yourselves out to be any better than the people you're fighting.370999 said:
Case in point, no matter what the Nazi's did to the Jews, and Gypsies, and Homosexuals, and Blacks, and pretty much anyone who disagreed with them, it still doesn't excuse what the RAF did to Dresden.
Sneak attacks on military targets, or targets of military importance, can be justified. Mindless slaughter of civilians for no other reason than to make a point cannot.
To answer what time period I'm talking about... I'm talking about the whole thing, from start to the present day. That's my whole point. That however admirable the aims of the original IRA were, everything that has happened since needs to be taken into account in order to make an objective judgement on the whole thing; and in my view what the IRA did in Ulster and the mainland in the latter part of the 20th Century rather spoils the ideals of their predecessors. That's why I said that, all things considered, the IRA ultimately hurt the cause they were fighting for.
I was responding to your comment about how your not Nazi's. As for the terrorist comment, obviously I don't support killing innocent peopleNinjaDeathSlap said: