Is Cheerleading a sport?

[Sonicron]

See, now we are going somewhere. You do have other reasons to believe cheerleading are a sport. Good. The one you presented previuosly did not measure whether something is a sport or not. Lets see what you got now.

Group activity (all group activity is gated based on various factors). Not necessary for a sport, and many sports done without it, but its a nice qualifier.

Teams - not really sport requirement either. Uniforms and team conformity is often a requirement at workplace for example.

Degree of choreography - well that seems to support my theory that cheerleading is a form of dancing. Not sure how that makes it a sporty.

breathing techniques - youll have to explain how that makes it a sport. Is medidation a sport since breathing techniques is a very important part of it?

See, when the discussion is about whether or not something should be qualified as a sport, we should first of all define what sport is and see if that activity fits the definition we made. When you open with a statement that noone that looks at physically sternuous can think it is not a sport i take it for that to be your definition of sport. I dont agree with it, and hence discussion starts.

Breathing techniques? Well, maybe that term was misapplied. I meant the ability to control your breathing effectively in physically stressful situations in order to function more efficiently during the activity in question. It's basically what every athlete needs to learn really early on. In cheerleading I'd say it's doubly important because they often need to be able to chant or sing loudly and in sync while they're dancing, which can quickly cause you to be out of breath.

I know my list of requirements could still apply to other things, such as military service, but I'm afraid it's all I got for the moment. In the end it probably comes down to whether or not you think dancing is or can be a sport, which I do. (And as I mentioned before, I really really should stop procrastinating and get back to my studies now. ^^)

 

[Phasmal]

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

People are sure quick to jump on the "offended" button.
Not offended, but it's not the usual term and it comes across as weird and distancing.

Usually the guys I've met who refer to women as "females" are not very good at talking to women and don't have good attitudes towards them. Now, obviously #notallmen, but it's a common enough thing.

If it really doesn't matter in the long run, best to use "women".
"Females" doesn't come across well.

 

[axlryder]

See now the extra protection that for some stupid reason only applies to what is considered "sport" is a reason to advocate for it being identified as a sport. Though i would prefer advocacy for those measures everywhere instead.

That doesn't change the fact that sport status is the "easiest" way to get those safety precautions implemented, regardless of whether or not it's what you prefer, making it as much a moral issue as a semantic one.

Also, the objectivity of the scoring in sports like gymnastics is similarly non-existent. Gymnastics is dancing, and, along with execution of moves, participants are judged on visual style and the craft of their routine. Even the more objective measures of their performance have subjective aspects (such as emphasis on landing, or how many points to award based on certain techniques, or how negatively one botched move should affect an otherwise stellar performance, etc.). Cheerleading judgement is extremely similar, with more focus being put on routine crafting and the inclusion of vocal aspects (which are continuously being deemphasized). You could argue that cheerleading is MORE subjective, and I'd agree that there is truth to that. That said, now we're just talking about degrees of subjectivity, and it really is a matter of personal opinion where to draw the line on that (at which point I'd simply reiterate the moral aspect of the argument).

Also, unlike sports like football, where there is also SOME objectivity in judgement, there is still an objectively right or wrong answer. There is no such objectivity in gymnastics. Yet it IS a sport. The definition that you need objective victory conditions simply excludes too many things traditionally viewed as sports to be a good definition. Indeed, most definitions online do NOT state that to be so.

What's more, things like ballet differentiate themselves in that their primary purpose is the performance as art/entertainment, despite competitions existing. Cheerleading has evolved to the point where competition, not entertainment, has arguably become its most important aspect. Essentially, cheerleading "wants" to be considered a sport, and that should be enough when the precedent has already been set for similar activities.

Where we probably agree is that cheerleading has a long way to go before it achieves the same standards as something like gymnastics. I can see how someone would say "it's not ready to be called a sport yet", but I believe the categorization will help propel it in that direction, which I really see as being more important right now than semantic arguments, especially with all the necessary trappings already being in place.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I consider it more of a performance art, though it can certainly be both. Whether it's a sport is a matter of drawing a somewhat arbitrary line. If everything in the Olympics is a sport (figure skating, ice dancing, diving, synchronized swimming, rhythmic gymnastics, soccer) then yeah, it's a sport. However, it's often about just putting on a show rather than trying to win a contest. There are a few respects in which it is more like band or choir or even theater than it is like football. I think it probably works better as a performance art, even though you can do things to shoehorn it into being a sport. Objective criteria for evaluation make it more of a sport, but they can also screw with the creativity of the choreography. On the other hand, the themes of cheerleading are so shallow anyway (Our team/school is so great that we have a bunch of people in uniform dancing around like maniacs just because!) that maybe that's not a big deal.

 

[pookie101]

i dont really get it.. seems for the most part to be an american thing, but a combination of dance and gymnastics. so i guess theoretically it is a sport

 

[FalloutJack]

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

Only if they're not female. It's an official and defining term, not slang or derogatory in nature.

And yet in this thread we have multiple people mocking OP for using it as if he called them "niggers" or something like that.

Well, I would have to say that that's their problem. I see no implication there.

It's because it is too "formal" and dehumanizing. He may as well be talking about an animal instead of humans. It is also commonly used as a adjective not a noun. The correct term would be girl or woman or at the very least female human..not just female. Using the word as a noun is most often done in a scientific or military setting, or from people were are going to stereotype a woman. We aren't talking about science and in the sentence right after he used the word female he brings up stereotypes.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty thin, right there. This is even less impacting than the whole 'white man' thing. If 'female' is somehow an insult, then you may as well throw away your ID, 'cause it's right there. This isn't an insult. It's just one of Freud's cigars.

 

[viranimus]

No, for the 100th time no, Cheerleading is not a sport.

Does cheerleading take a ridiculous level of skill? Yes
Does cheerleading require percisison, timing and exemplary teamwork? Yes.

Is it athletic? Yes.
Is it a competition? Yes.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sport
Any activity that uses physical exertion or skills competitively under a set of rules that is not based on aesthetics.

Is it an athletic competition between squads that is determined by the opinion of a panel of judges? Yes.

Therefore it is not a sport because its sole mechanism of determining success or failure boils down to the arbitrary subjective opinions of a group of people. It cannot be considered a sport if the competition is decided by judges because the rules are no longer clearly and strictly defined. They are down to aesthetics that please the individual judges personal sense of aesthetics related to the event.

American Idol is not a sport, Ice skating is not a sport, Most of the X games competitions are not sports, and by the nature of the rules that it can be decided by judgement if not decided before via existing rules most fighting competitions like boxing and MMA are not sports.

A sport is a competition where the rules are clearly defined and set up so that winners can be determined on the rules alone. Basically games with a running score, race forms, or distance forms.


Yes, by these measures competitive eating is more of a "sport" than cheer leading.

Does not calling cheer leading a sport diminish it as an athletic competition performed by some genuinely skilled and astounding athletes? Absolutely not. It takes strength, Stamina, agility, mental skill, vocal and lung capacity, timing, adaptability, vision, team work and extreme levels of faith and trust in those you work with. In its own way it is superior to most sports. Just because something is different yet similar to something does not mean they must be judged and treated as if they are the same thing. Something is very wrong when the concept of difference is allowed to be viewed as some sort of negative because all it does is makes this a more and more bland world where everything is basically the same.

Sadly this can be applied to so many areas of this world where similar debate and confusion exists.

 

[mecegirl]

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

Only if they're not female. It's an official and defining term, not slang or derogatory in nature.

And yet in this thread we have multiple people mocking OP for using it as if he called them "niggers" or something like that.

Well, I would have to say that that's their problem. I see no implication there.

It's because it is too "formal" and dehumanizing. He may as well be talking about an animal instead of humans. It is also commonly used as a adjective not a noun. The correct term would be girl or woman or at the very least female human..not just female. Using the word as a noun is most often done in a scientific or military setting, or from people were are going to stereotype a woman. We aren't talking about science and in the sentence right after he used the word female he brings up stereotypes.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty thin, right there. This is even less impacting than the whole 'white man' thing. If 'female' is somehow an insult, then you may as well throw away your ID, 'cause it's right there. This isn't an insult. It's just one of Freud's cigars.

I never called it an insult though. I was just explaining why it rubs people the wrong way. And once again it has it's place. Folks never care if its used as a discriptor but as a noun. It doesn't help that most of the time its usage as a noun is followed by dumbass generalizions. The distase for the word has more to do with how people use it than anything else. An example would be the opening post.

 

[Saltyk]

Solely for the fact that girls get hurt, sometimes severely, it should be considered a sport. The fact is that by not considering it a sport, it makes it that much more dangerous to the girls performing these stunts. More high school students are maimed in cheer-leading accidents than all other high sports combined (though, I don't know if concussions count in those numbers).

So if people get hurt its a sport? One of the primary cause of injuries are car accidents. commuting to work is a sport!

False Equivalence.

Also how does not considering it a sport makes it more dangerous? is there some magic spells that makes things considered sport automatically more safe?

First, more students are injured in cheer-leading than all other high school sports combined. I've literally seen videos asking cheerleaders who among them have had injuries and the vast majority (all but one) had had some sort of injury. Broken bones are not uncommon, but some girls have even been paralyzed.

Second, by considering it a sport, there would be much more stringent guidelines and safety precautions. As well as protections for the girls who have been injured.

This is where I would embed the Penn and Teller Bullshit episode on cheerleading, but it looks like all those videos have been taken down. I highly recommend you look it up on Netflix or whatever. It's really great and informative on this subject. Completely changed my mind on cheerleading being a sport.

you said that it is a sport "Solely for the fact that girls get hurt". Therefore it is not false equivalence to use sources of injuries as the source of what you consider a sport.

And then having more injuries makes it a sport how? you have to first prove that being injured causes it to be a sport before you progress further.

See now the extra protection that for some stupid reason only applies to what is considered "sport" is a reason to advocate for it being identified as a sport. Though i would prefer advocacy for those measures everywhere instead.

This is way less complicated than you are making it out to be.

If cheerleading is considered a sport than schools will be required by the state to have certain regulations and protections in place to protect the girls. They will be required to take certain safety precautions and have certain training for their coaching staff in order to ensure the girls do not get hurt as often and can be properly taken care of in the event that they do get injured. Currently, there is no such regulation partly due to Title IX (but that is a whole other can of worms).

Do you know who sets the guidelines now? Effectively the corporation that sells the girls uniforms and oversees the cheerleading competitions.

A girl should not go to a cheerleading tryout and come out paralyzed from the neck down.

 

[FalloutJack]

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

Only if they're not female. It's an official and defining term, not slang or derogatory in nature.

And yet in this thread we have multiple people mocking OP for using it as if he called them "niggers" or something like that.

Well, I would have to say that that's their problem. I see no implication there.

It's because it is too "formal" and dehumanizing. He may as well be talking about an animal instead of humans. It is also commonly used as a adjective not a noun. The correct term would be girl or woman or at the very least female human..not just female. Using the word as a noun is most often done in a scientific or military setting, or from people were are going to stereotype a woman. We aren't talking about science and in the sentence right after he used the word female he brings up stereotypes.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty thin, right there. This is even less impacting than the whole 'white man' thing. If 'female' is somehow an insult, then you may as well throw away your ID, 'cause it's right there. This isn't an insult. It's just one of Freud's cigars.

I never called it an insult though. I was just explaining why it rubs people the wrong way. And once again it has it's place. Folks never care if its used as a discriptor but as a noun. It doesn't help that most of the time its usage as a noun is followed by dumbass generalizions. The distase for the word has more to do with how people use it than anything else. An example would be the opening post.

Well then, I'm right and properly lost, because in the great book of Jack, to be offended is to be insulted on some level. That is, to take issue with the statement in question on a level approaching irritation or ranging all the way to anger, which is due to being in disagreement with it in some manner. To this, I say that it is not That Word that is the problem, but probably the person, or that some people might be taking this a little personally where there is no harm meant.

 

[NiPah]

I'm always fascinated by these types of conversations, the answers are usually irrelevant but it's an amazing glimpse into a poster's brain.

Kindof like how the op equates cheerleading to snobby, slutty, and dumb females wearing short skirts.
Or how some equate it by comparing it to other activities which are assumed to be prejudged.
That one guy who equates injury to sports.
A lot of people physical activity to sports, which is an aspect, but just an aspect.

There's also seems to be this idea that the classification of sport adds relevancy, or even more extreme that arguing against the classification is an attack on women. Honestly it echos similarly to the games as art debates.

I also learned that some people don't like the use of the term female, the more ya know huh.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

No, it isn't, for two reasons. The first is the definition of sport, wherein it would require a competitive aspect. Without competition, it isn't really a sport. The second reason and much easier to agree on is that it is a rehearsed, choreographed performance. The girls learn to perform the same steps again and again till they can all do the routine in sync. It is essentially a performing art, like any other type of dance.

 

[mecegirl]

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

Only if they're not female. It's an official and defining term, not slang or derogatory in nature.

And yet in this thread we have multiple people mocking OP for using it as if he called them "niggers" or something like that.

Well, I would have to say that that's their problem. I see no implication there.

It's because it is too "formal" and dehumanizing. He may as well be talking about an animal instead of humans. It is also commonly used as a adjective not a noun. The correct term would be girl or woman or at the very least female human..not just female. Using the word as a noun is most often done in a scientific or military setting, or from people were are going to stereotype a woman. We aren't talking about science and in the sentence right after he used the word female he brings up stereotypes.

I'm sorry, but that's pretty thin, right there. This is even less impacting than the whole 'white man' thing. If 'female' is somehow an insult, then you may as well throw away your ID, 'cause it's right there. This isn't an insult. It's just one of Freud's cigars.

I never called it an insult though. I was just explaining why it rubs people the wrong way. And once again it has it's place. Folks never care if its used as a discriptor but as a noun. It doesn't help that most of the time its usage as a noun is followed by dumbass generalizions. The distase for the word has more to do with how people use it than anything else. An example would be the opening post.

Well then, I'm right and properly lost, because in the great book of Jack, to be offended is to be insulted on some level. That is, to take issue with the statement in question on a level approaching irritation or ranging all the way to anger, which is due to being in disagreement with it in some manner. To this, I say that it is not That Word that is the problem, but probably the person, or that some people might be taking this a little personally where there is no harm meant.

Well, typically the insulting part is what comes after. So while the use of female as a noun instead of woman or girl is awkward, and in most cases incorrect, it's also a red flag. It's low key rhetoric. Like, I always know some dumb shit's gonna follow after someone uses female as a noun. It's like a signal to prime my eyeballs for maximum rollage. That goes double for the type of people who will use female for women but never use male for men, sometimes in the same sentence.

If you ever spend time in R&P you probably know what I'm talking about on a wider scale. Some words are used by people with certain viewpoints so often that you already know what they are gonna say.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, typically the insulting part is what comes after.

Funny story. I asked my sister about this and she said that it must have to do with what was said in association with the inclusion of Female. My advice is that while it may send alarm bells into your head, give credit where credit is due: To the actual low-grade comment that ensues.

 

[MrFalconfly]

No, it isn't, for two reasons. The first is the definition of sport, wherein it would require a competitive aspect. Without competition, it isn't really a sport. The second reason and much easier to agree on is that it is a rehearsed, choreographed performance. The girls learn to perform the same steps again and again till they can all do the routine in sync. It is essentially a performing art, like any other type of dance.

That's my take on it too.

It's impressively choreographed entertainment, for when the yanks forget that we're here to watch a game of [INSERT SPORT THAT'S LIKELY TO BE POPULAR IN THE US HERE].

You wouldn't call military drilling a sport either.

 

[Phasmal]

Well, typically the insulting part is what comes after.

Funny story. I asked my sister about this and she said that it must have to do with what was said in association with the inclusion of Female. My advice is that while it may send alarm bells into your head, give credit where credit is due: To the actual low-grade comment that ensues.

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

Fairly logical if you know one term makes you sound more off-putting to a lot of women is to simply use the right term, rather than expect all of them to adjust.
In a side note, I rarely see women, or men for that matter, refer to men as "males". Probably just because it sounds weird.
And it sounds no less weird when people call women "females", like they're doing a bloody nature documentary.

 

[FalloutJack]

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

It's a synonymous term and fairly innocent of any malice. That's the only point I'm really making. It's not like Gringo or something.

 

[Phasmal]

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

It's a synonymous term and fairly innocent of any malice. That's the only point I'm really making. It's not like Gringo or something.

Nobody said it was.
Y'know, there is a vast middle ground between something being perfectly normal or terribly offensive.
"Females" sits closer to being normal, but it's used enough by creepers, and could be considered dehumanising. If someone told me a thing I said made me sound like a creeposaurus rex, I'd probably consider it a little more.

Point is, if it's no skin off your nose, "women" is just better.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snippenhoffer

I believe that's the point that Mecegirl and I appear to be hashing out, that it's because creepers are putting overtones on it. It's like the blame of video games for certain violent acts. Totally innocent bystander. Smack the jerk, but only because he's a jerk.

 

[Phasmal]

Snippenhoffer

I believe that's the point that Mecegirl and I appear to be hashing out, that it's because creepers are putting overtones on it. It's like the blame of video games for certain violent acts. Totally innocent bystander. Smack the jerk, but only because he's a jerk.

Fair enough, I suppose, not like you guys don't know how it comes across now.
It may have been unfairly tainted by the touch of creep, but that's just how it is.

To each their own.