Is Cheerleading a sport?

[Phasmal]

Well, typically the insulting part is what comes after.

Funny story. I asked my sister about this and she said that it must have to do with what was said in association with the inclusion of Female. My advice is that while it may send alarm bells into your head, give credit where credit is due: To the actual low-grade comment that ensues.

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

Fairly logical if you know one term makes you sound more off-putting to a lot of women is to simply use the right term, rather than expect all of them to adjust.
In a side note, I rarely see women, or men for that matter, refer to men as "males". Probably just because it sounds weird.
And it sounds no less weird when people call women "females", like they're doing a bloody nature documentary.

 

[FalloutJack]

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

It's a synonymous term and fairly innocent of any malice. That's the only point I'm really making. It's not like Gringo or something.

 

[Phasmal]

Or, y'know, people could just call women "women".

It's a synonymous term and fairly innocent of any malice. That's the only point I'm really making. It's not like Gringo or something.

Nobody said it was.
Y'know, there is a vast middle ground between something being perfectly normal or terribly offensive.
"Females" sits closer to being normal, but it's used enough by creepers, and could be considered dehumanising. If someone told me a thing I said made me sound like a creeposaurus rex, I'd probably consider it a little more.

Point is, if it's no skin off your nose, "women" is just better.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snippenhoffer

I believe that's the point that Mecegirl and I appear to be hashing out, that it's because creepers are putting overtones on it. It's like the blame of video games for certain violent acts. Totally innocent bystander. Smack the jerk, but only because he's a jerk.

 

[Phasmal]

Snippenhoffer

I believe that's the point that Mecegirl and I appear to be hashing out, that it's because creepers are putting overtones on it. It's like the blame of video games for certain violent acts. Totally innocent bystander. Smack the jerk, but only because he's a jerk.

Fair enough, I suppose, not like you guys don't know how it comes across now.
It may have been unfairly tainted by the touch of creep, but that's just how it is.

To each their own.

 

[Strazdas]

Breathing techniques? Well, maybe that term was misapplied. I meant the ability to control your breathing effectively in physically stressful situations in order to function more efficiently during the activity in question. It's basically what every athlete needs to learn really early on. In cheerleading I'd say it's doubly important because they often need to be able to chant or sing loudly and in sync while they're dancing, which can quickly cause you to be out of breath.

I know my list of requirements could still apply to other things, such as military service, but I'm afraid it's all I got for the moment. In the end it probably comes down to whether or not you think dancing is or can be a sport, which I do. (And as I mentioned before, I really really should stop procrastinating and get back to my studies now. ^^)

While that is a good skill to have, it does not make one having it a sportsperson by default.

Well let me help you then. A sport is an activity that involves competition among people or groups of people in which a clear winner can be declared either via some victory task or a points system. You could have said that, for example, cheerleader moves have defined point values used in competitions. Would have been far more convincing argument than "Sternuous activity"

P.S. so people are now offended by the word "Females"?

People are sure quick to jump on the "offended" button.
Not offended, but it's not the usual term and it comes across as weird and distancing.

Usually the guys I've met who refer to women as "females" are not very good at talking to women and don't have good attitudes towards them. Now, obviously #notallmen, but it's a common enough thing.

If it really doesn't matter in the long run, best to use "women".
"Females" doesn't come across well.

Maybe is a cultural barrier. People use Woman and Female pretty interchangeably where i come from. If anything, Girl is the term used by more socially awkward. Even if it is something people with lack of experience say, though, is that any reason to be condescending to them alienating them even more?

Also due to the way gender is recognized now, woman and female have different definitions.

That doesn't change the fact that sport status is the "easiest" way to get those safety precautions implemented, regardless of whether or not it's what you prefer, making it as much a moral issue as a semantic one.

Also, the objectivity of the scoring in sports like gymnastics is similarly non-existent. Gymnastics is dancing, and, along with execution of moves, participants are judged on visual style and the craft of their routine. Even the more objective measures of their performance have subjective aspects (such as emphasis on landing, or how many points to award based on certain techniques, or how negatively one botched move should affect an otherwise stellar performance, etc.). Cheerleading judgement is extremely similar, with more focus being put on routine crafting and the inclusion of vocal aspects (which are continuously being deemphasized). You could argue that cheerleading is MORE subjective, and I'd agree that there is truth to that. That said, now we're just talking about degrees of subjectivity, and it really is a matter of personal opinion where to draw the line on that (at which point I'd simply reiterate the moral aspect of the argument).

Also, unlike sports like football, where there is also SOME objectivity in judgement, there is still an objectively right or wrong answer. There is no such objectivity in gymnastics. Yet it IS a sport. The definition that you need objective victory conditions simply excludes too many things traditionally viewed as sports to be a good definition. Indeed, most definitions online do NOT state that to be so.

What's more, things like ballet differentiate themselves in that their primary purpose is the performance as art/entertainment, despite competitions existing. Cheerleading has evolved to the point where competition, not entertainment, has arguably become its most important aspect. Essentially, cheerleading "wants" to be considered a sport, and that should be enough when the precedent has already been set for similar activities.

Where we probably agree is that cheerleading has a long way to go before it achieves the same standards as something like gymnastics. I can see how someone would say "it's not ready to be called a sport yet", but I believe the categorization will help propel it in that direction, which I really see as being more important right now than semantic arguments, especially with all the necessary trappings already being in place.

Thats fair enough. Thank you for explaining why people are so adamant to push for this label

Then i would argue that those traditionally viewed as sports are merely competitions rather than sports. Yes, even if there is gymnastics in the olympics.

Has cheerleading primary purpose became competition now? Granted i dont follow them closely as cheerleading is very much a western-only fenomena, but from what i understood its primary use was still performance art in addition to football events. Do you have any data i could check out?

This is way less complicated than you are making it out to be.

If cheerleading is considered a sport than schools will be required by the state to have certain regulations and protections in place to protect the girls. They will be required to take certain safety precautions and have certain training for their coaching staff in order to ensure the girls do not get hurt as often and can be properly taken care of in the event that they do get injured. Currently, there is no such regulation partly due to Title IX (but that is a whole other can of worms).

Do you know who sets the guidelines now? Effectively the corporation that sells the girls uniforms and oversees the cheerleading competitions.

A girl should not go to a cheerleading tryout and come out paralyzed from the neck down.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Instead of making cheerleading safer because people are getting hurt you want to find a loophole into existing regulation to introduce safety by mislabeling it.

I know its asking a lot, but perhaps these girls shoudl refuse to do stunts that leave them paralyzed as well?

 

[Phasmal]

Maybe is a cultural barrier. People use Woman and Female pretty interchangeably where i come from. If anything, Girl is the term used by more socially awkward. Even if it is something people with lack of experience say, though, is that any reason to be condescending to them alienating them even more?

Also due to the way gender is recognized now, woman and female have different definitions.

Perhaps it is a cultural barrier. Oh well, it's something to be aware of.
And if me putting "females" in scarequotes and then quite blandly explaining why many women don't like to be called females is too condescending for someone, I would humbly suggest the internet might be a bit much for that person.

Anyway, neither I nor any woman are here to mollycoddle those with little experience of women. That's kind of absurd.
I sympathise, I'm shit at social interaction, but we live and learn.

 

[axlryder]

snip

And we'd just have to disagree on that point. I simply think that definition is too narrow and excludes too many things traditionally viewed as sports while includes other things that simply aren't.

I'd reiterate that there are plenty of (if not most of the) primary definitions online that don't support that specific guideline as stated (including Webster, Oxford, Dictionary.com, cambridge, thefreedictionary, etc.). Even the wikipedia article explicitly states that victory in some sports can be determined by subjective measures of individual skill and/or artistic impression. You haven't really countered that point, just implied that you don't agree with those definitions by not addressing them. I realize there is at least one definition online that does support the idea that there needs to be an purely objective measure of victory, but to say your definition is "more correct" without further validation simply isn't a reason for me to agree with you, especially when that view seems to reflect the minority of definitions. That said, I respect that there is validity to your view simply based on alternative definitions existing.

Anyway, back to politics, sports status is met by the following guidelines according to the women's sports foundation

1. It must be a physical activity which involves propelling a mass through space or overcoming the resistance of mass.

2. ?Contesting? or competing against/with an opponent is required.

3. It must be governed by rules that explicitly define the time, space, and purpose of the contest and the conditions under which a winner is declared.
(this is the same as gymnastics or boxing, with a panel of judges operating off of a standardized scoring system declaring a winner being deemed sufficient in explicity defining victory conditions, as they also fulfill this criterion given their classification by the women's sports foundation. Cheerleading, while arguably more subjective than gymnastics, does have some pretty rigorous guidelines for determining scores and victors at competitive levels)

4. Acknowledgement that the primary purpose of the competition is a comparison of the relative skills of the participants.

5. The primary purpose is competition verses other teams or individuals within a competition structure comparable to other ?athletic? activities.?

Assuming you take the notion I've forwarded that it has become more about competition at face value, then it absolutely meets those criteria. The problem is that many states believe it doesn't meet that last one, which is where the real argument lies and the crux of varsity's argument against the sports classification.

As to the competitive aspect, I don't have pure statistical data, and it's easily the most contentious part of the argument. This isn't just because most of what I have to offer is anecdotal, but also because it's such a murky topic with a lot of different aspects. As far as I can tell, it's intentionally convoluted.

Here is the general case I'd make for my angle:

You have "all star cheerleading squads" which are cheer squads that are purely dedicated to competition, they partake in "competitive cheerleading". They don't cheer, they just compete. Many to most colleges have one, though many squads are not affiliated with any school. Most schools (including high schools) attend competitions, which they prioritize over games (can confirm this for the 3 different high schools I attended). There's just a general air of "competitions are the most important thing" based on everyone I've ever talked to about it (probably about 50 people). These squads also partake in "competitive cheerleading". You also have "stunt", an offshoot sport that literally IS cheerleading, just called something different (routines and practice are identical to all-star squads, with increased safety standards and a few tiny differences like the inclusion of "sidelines" and "halftime"). It was created by varsity in order to pacify people who say cheerleaders can't do cheerleading without it being dangerous because it doesn't have sports status and thus more rigorous safety standards. Varsity probably also created it simply to protect cheerleading as a "non-sport", attempting to further differentiate classic cheerleading from the burgeoning competitive cheerleading scene, despite the two being thoroughly intermingled.

I don't have statistics though, despite digging around for a bit. The paranoid part of me assumes that those kind of statistics (if there are any) are intentionally made hard to find. I'll keep looking at some point here, but I'm afraid I really don't really have time right now.

Also, I just noticed that the OP made a troll account and this is, in fact, a troll topic. I are ashamed.

 

[mecegirl]

Well, typically the insulting part is what comes after.

Funny story. I asked my sister about this and she said that it must have to do with what was said in association with the inclusion of Female. My advice is that while it may send alarm bells into your head, give credit where credit is due: To the actual low-grade comment that ensues.

Funny story...I said what your sister said multiple times in many different ways. I'm wondering if you even read what I wrote. And no thanks to your advice.

You wondered why people had a problem with the use of female as a noun and I explained why. But you are also overlooking that fact that it isn't how people speak. Female is not a noun it is an adjective. It is not directly synonymous with women in the English language. One denotes sex and the other denotes gender. Gendered terms are nouns.http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/female http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/woman?s=t That's why it stands out, and probably why it's so often used by "creepers". The first part is that it's an odd way for an American person to speak because it is clinical,and generally grammatically incorrect, the second is what comes out afterwards.

You won't find a grade school kid in the US that is taught to use female or male as a noun. It will be him/her, girl/boy, woman/man. Now you will see people who try to push things the other way and say things like woman president. Which is again generally incorrect. The correct term is female president because woman is not an adjective but female is.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Misunderstandings are abound in life. It doesn't really worry me.

 

[weirdee]

If the same assumptions that go into asking such a question are bound to truth, since cheerleading was originally invented as an activity exclusively for men [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerleading#Beginning_of_organized_cheer], I'm going to have to say yes, because any sport that men invented is unquestionably a sport.

 

[sumanoskae]

Why the fuck would being a cheerleader make one stupid or snobbish? Because you saw it in a movie?

The slutty part I sort of get, but only because slut is a dumb word and a non-insult that describes a totally innocent activity. So considering that cheerleaders are effectively a subset of gymnasts they tend to be in good shape, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them took advantage of the perks that come with it.

So... no? I haven't met that many cheerleaders, but I'm not really seeing the cause and effect relationship.