Is it immoral to keep pets?

[Trippy Turtle]

It would only really be bad if you get owners that hit mistreat you. Hell, if I get nice owners thats always been a rather nice 'what if' of mine.

 

[Heinrich843]

Well, cats are self domesticated.. so...

 

[bullet_sandw1ch]

We had a guy in at our school with birds of prey, he had an owl there and one of the things that really struck me was when he said in captivity an owls natural lifespan is about 2 years, before their dangerous, crappy lifestyle kills them. In captivity it's about 8 years. That's four times as long. Now I know that dogs and cats are different, and the extra lifespan won't be as much, but kept as pets the animals will survive longer than they would have in the wild, and they have a much higher standard of living.

Better food at regular guaranteed intervals, Shelter, safety, companionship, healthcare, kept clean, flea free, dewormed. All these are huge benefits for a pet. The only compromise they have to make is less freedom, a smaller area to excercise in, and (maybe) a lack of their own species to interact with.

It's a very fair trade-off, especially since most pets are born into domesticated families, and wouldn't survive in the wild anymore anyway.

EDIT: As far as how the animals feel about it look at this cat:

Does this cat look sad to you?

no, but it does look adorable!!!!

 

[Vault101]

no....its not imoral too have pets...PETS are bred to be our companions, if you treat them well its a great deal for everyone

now wild animals on the other hand is a different thing, they arnt used to domestication

fuck what PETA says,

 

[Paradoxrifts]

If you're going to post an open binary question to an entire internet form, which the overwhelming majority of responses will be answers that you personally don't agree with, then I'm afraid to tell you that it just comes across as outright cowardliness not to include a poll.

 

[Ariyura]

My cat lives better than I do. He came malnourished and hurt from a shelter and it broke my heart. His fur was falling out and you couldn't touch his head straight on so I pamper him.

Expensive food, heated bed, run of the house. I love him to death and I am not sure what kind of life he had before I got him but I won't let him go back to it.

 

[Gitty101]

If my cats didn't want to live here anymore they know where the doors are. As it is they keep coming back. They'd be able to survive out there, too. They've got birds, mice, rats etc all of which they are capable of catching.

Pretty much what the Ninja I'm quoting said. I have two cats, lovely animals with complete freedom. If they wanted to leave they wouldn't keep coming back.

As for the OP, you talk about animals experiencing things such as Stockholm Syndrome, advanced psychological conditions and then attribute their psychology to a lesser extent then a Human's. Not particularly good since you used a human for your main example. It's contradictions like these that are debasing your argument.

 

[Potato Dragon]

Yeah...i'm pretty sure more than a few people won't appreciate you comparing pet-owning to the slave trade...just sayin'.

Well, if they don't like it then that shows I've hit a tender nerve yes? ;-)

By that logic if say you make the analogy "people who keep pets endorse rape" if people disagree then that means pets are wrong. It just doesn't hold up.

OT: The same could be said of children, taken from an early age to some people they don't know then expected to be good, and befor you bring up speech i don't think a 2 year old can clearly convey their innermost feelings. There is also the problem that humans just like chimps are social animals, this makes them different to cats dogs and other domesticated animals because without a social group they will become depressed and this often leads to death (mostly through malnutrition).

In summery some animals are fine to take as pets others are no. This depends on the animal not us.

 

[LetalisK]

...

Maybe you haven't noticed but humans kind of have a society that they can easily survive in without needing to worry about struggling to survive. We're social animals that need others that we can communicate with. Our needs are different from a dogs and will not be met by those aliens. Autonomy is important to us, whether it is naturally so or it is because we've been raised to value it already. It is not so important to animals, or at least it sure doesn't appear to be. It's absurd to put us in a similar situation when we're rather dissimilar from those animals.

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. Give someone an unlimited supply of Big Macs, a perpetually high-end computer with high-speed internet, and a bucket to shit in, I'm sure there are some who would be fine with the occasional scratch behind the ear. <.<

 

[Superlative]

Yeah...i'm pretty sure more than a few people won't appreciate you comparing pet-owning to the slave trade...just sayin'.

Well, if they don't like it then that shows I've hit a tender nerve yes? ;-)

So, what exactly would you have pet owners do?
Release domesticated animals to suffer and die in the wild?

It's just not really a valid conversation to have right now. As already stated, domestication having already taken place kind of kneecaps any survivablity these animals might have.

Also, another note on the whole `abduction` thing... one of our cats was given to us pregnant and when she had her kittens she rejected them. In the wild they would have died. So I'm pretty sure the kittens were probably happier that we kept them.

To be honest this is more of a hypothetical discussion than a manifesto or actual proposal, if measures were taken to reduce or ban pet owning then likely what to be done would vary by species. Feral cats and dogs exist in many countries though, and more recently pets such as parrots or rabbits have barely changed from their ancestors so I reckon they'd have a good chance of reintergrating into the gene pool.

You don't have a pet, I'm afraid you just don't understand.

I'd argue I understand better than most pet owners, since my judgement isn't clouded by bias or justifications of my own past actions to do with the subject.

As many of you are well aware, Mr. Trolol has passed away recently. how do you mourn a man named trolol, by trolling of course.

I salute you, Jojo, for your most excellent, and appropriate act of mourning.

 

[him over there]

I mean this in the nicest way possible.

Dogs, cats and other pets are too stupid to know that they're pets.

Also, my dog seems very happy with her life.

Better food than in the wild, better healthcare than in the wild, better beds than in the wild.

The wild seems kind of lame

And the thread is already over.

Dogs don't think the way we do, they don't reason the same. All of my dogs think we're all a big pack, and they obey us because to them, we're higher up in the chain of command. And they don't resent us, they all fucking love us. So, yeah, not the same situation.

What about the mother of the dog though? they know that their baby is being taken away at least.

 

[Powereaver]

As long as you look after your pets... its 100% fine i hate those people who mistreat their pets.... then its frustrating.

 

[viranimus]

Called it

Been wondering that much longer than since aug 2010.

Cats clearly dont. Look at outside cats. If you feed one and take care of it long enough, it will move beyond the phase of "ill let you glimpse me if you feed me". I rescued an abandoned orange tabby this year, and its simply not satisfied just to be fed by me. It expects me to sit down outside for at least 10 min every day so it can curl up in my lap and take a little nap. Really doesnt seem like its upset that its food comes from one location.

Plus... theres plenty of examples out there how animals can be appreciative of humans. Hell, just watch christian the lion... err dont, because yeah.... Anyway, its a perfect illustration of an animal loving its human keepers.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

It's been said a thousand times, but a happy pet isn't a mistreated pet. One of the many "nice thoughts that aren't actually thought about" sparks to a discussion.

 

[Goofguy]

You have to pretend to be eager and be a "good human" when your masters return if you want to ever get any treats.

The difference is dogs aren't pretending to be eager when you get home, they are legitimately thrilled to see you. Dogs don't associate the return of their masters with the time to get a treat, they're just ecstatic that they get to hang out with you again.

The aliens have far longer a lifespan than humans and so when you get old and too expensive to keep, they have you euthanatised, cry a few crocodile tears and then forget about you when they go buy a new pet human. That is your life.

When my old dog died, I wasn't crying crocodile tears. I was heartbroken that I had to say goodbye to my best friend. And it wasn't a question of him being too expensive to keep; he was in pain and we were doing what was best for him. And finally, when we got a new dog a few years later I was happy but I did not forget the previous family dog who had been such a pivotal part of my childhood.

Ultimately, your example is flawed based on the fact that pets aren't as smart as us. They are not as cognizant of the world around them and the implications of their living situations.

 

[xshadowscreamx]

i will never keep a bird in a cage...very unnatural

 

[Fluffythepoo]

Symbiosis is the only reason complex life can be sustained, most "pets" are the remnants of a former symbiotic relationship that existed between man and various species of animal. Pets no longer contribute to the survivability of the 2 species (because if they are contributing then they arent pets) and are therefore parasites. Those species more recently domesticated by humans, purely for the purpose of companionship are also parasites.
So no it isnt moral for people to have pets because these creatures are impeding humans' ability to survive, which is entirely unfair to humans. Therefore they should be exterminated to allow people to prosper. Or these animals can get off their asses and start contributing.


Orrrr.... you goddamn hippies can stop trying to humanise animals and also stop observing anecdotal evidence as representative of everything. Theres a fucking reason dogs come back home when they get out of the yard (after a nice run of course) its cause they fucking want to be home and not living in the wild fighting to survive every day. They dont care about being "free" because theyre unable to comprehend the concept, they DO care about having sustenance and shelter which is what theyre freaking getting because theyre freaking pets.. how about we worry about the animals that arent lucky enough to be pets; the ones that dont know where theyre going to sleep at night, that dont know if theyre going to starve to death this winter, that watch most of their children die because only the strong may live, that have to experience the terror of fighting for their lives whenever something bigger comes along.

So no it isnt moral for man to have to carry so many other species on its shoulders, but what are you gonna do? Theyre just so damn cute

 

[Bernzz]

*snip*

And the thread is already over.

Dogs don't think the way we do, they don't reason the same. All of my dogs think we're all a big pack, and they obey us because to them, we're higher up in the chain of command. And they don't resent us, they all fucking love us. So, yeah, not the same situation.

What about the mother of the dog though? they know that their baby is being taken away at least.

Haha, well, in one specific example, one of our dogs is actually the mother of another one of our dogs. She no longer treats her puppy like a puppy. More like an annoyance. So she wouldn't mind.

The mothers get to a stage where they really are sick of their puppies, and eventually they even forget about their puppies entirely. Their puppies would become, to them, just another dog, whether the puppy is taken away or not.

 

[him over there]

*snip*

And the thread is already over.

Dogs don't think the way we do, they don't reason the same. All of my dogs think we're all a big pack, and they obey us because to them, we're higher up in the chain of command. And they don't resent us, they all fucking love us. So, yeah, not the same situation.

What about the mother of the dog though? they know that their baby is being taken away at least.

Haha, well, in one specific example, one of our dogs is actually the mother of another one of our dogs. She no longer treats her puppy like a puppy. More like an annoyance. So she wouldn't mind.

The mothers get to a stage where they really are sick of their puppies, and eventually they even forget about their puppies entirely. Their puppies would become, to them, just another dog, whether the puppy is taken away or not.

First, D'awww that's sweet. But the thing is some dogs can be taken from their mothers before their first birthday, I don't really know what point mother dogs view their pups as ready to go out on their own so this point could be moot based entirely on that.

 

[LiftYourSkinnyFists]

My dog, before he passed did lick my face daily and he lived the life of the pet for 14 years so either face licking is a form of serious resentment or just plain stupid way of showing someone you like them.


I don't think he was living the tortured life your human-pet lived.