Is it rude to ask someone how much they make?
- Thread starter Mersadeon
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I don't think it is, and I never saw why people think it is.
Maybe its because I'm in college and my jobs have been minimum wage mostly, but if someone asks "How much do you make" I'll answer. If someone judges me based on how much money I make then why are they in my life anyway?
Maybe its because I'm in college and my jobs have been minimum wage mostly, but if someone asks "How much do you make" I'll answer. If someone judges me based on how much money I make then why are they in my life anyway?
I used to work part-time at Waitrose while at university, and whenever I had my annual review and was told what my salary raise would be, I was told not to go telling everyone else what I earned. I never asked any of my colleagues either, and they never asked me. As for now, I work full time training as a quantity surveyor, which means that I need to know all the costs involved in the project we're working on, including what everyone in the office and on our contract earn (so we can weigh the monthly salary costs against our cost plan). The cost plan has those details and is kept hidden from anyone who doesn't need that info. We actually had problems getting into the payroll on our computer system recently because the info is so sensitive and no-one in IT would allow us access to the data (which we needed for the monthly project review).
In short, even as part of my job where I need to know this stuff, it's still considered bad to know what everyone else is earning. I definitely wouldn't tell anyone else my salary (except my family and my bank), so yeah, I'd say it's fairly rude. British here, by the way...
In short, even as part of my job where I need to know this stuff, it's still considered bad to know what everyone else is earning. I definitely wouldn't tell anyone else my salary (except my family and my bank), so yeah, I'd say it's fairly rude. British here, by the way...
I wouldn't say that it's considered rude, but it is frowned upon. Especially among co-workers. While I do have a fair idea of how much some of my coworkers make in relation to my own paycheck (some more, some less), I would never ask. And when I have been asked, I generally wave it off or frame my answer in a way that relates more to the person asking. Invariably, the person asking is usually fairly new and wondering how much they can look forward to making in the future, so answering how raises tend to go is usually more relevant to their concerns than how much I make.
However, a good chunk of this comes from other concerns. I won't lie, I have generally gotten better raises than most of my coworkers. I know this much. I can make educated guesses about who else may have shared that as well. But I would never ask. Because that sort of thing tends to breed jealousy and discontent. "Why did a guy half my age get a larger raise than me?"
So, yes, there is a good reason to avoid telling people how much you make or what sort of raise you have gotten. They could get just as angry at you for making more than them as your boss for not paying them the same. Which is not fair to you or anyone else. This is probably where the idea that it is rude to ask someone how much they make arose.
However, a good chunk of this comes from other concerns. I won't lie, I have generally gotten better raises than most of my coworkers. I know this much. I can make educated guesses about who else may have shared that as well. But I would never ask. Because that sort of thing tends to breed jealousy and discontent. "Why did a guy half my age get a larger raise than me?"
So, yes, there is a good reason to avoid telling people how much you make or what sort of raise you have gotten. They could get just as angry at you for making more than them as your boss for not paying them the same. Which is not fair to you or anyone else. This is probably where the idea that it is rude to ask someone how much they make arose.
There's this business magazine here (Belgium) that does a yearly anonymous poll of how much people working in different sectors make. The point is mostly for readers to check if they're not being underpaid.
Hence I assume it is indeed considered rude to straight up ask, even amongst colleagues. Why else would such an elaborate anonymous poll be necessary?
Hence I assume it is indeed considered rude to straight up ask, even amongst colleagues. Why else would such an elaborate anonymous poll be necessary?
It depends on how well you know the person, or if you're looking for an actual monetary figure or just a "well/poor" answer. Generally when discussing employment, I ask something like "How well does that treat you?" which can be answered with income or without if the person wants to talk about it or not.
It's not rude(assuming the conversation was naturally leading there, and you actually know each other). They might decide to refuse, and it would be rude to pressure them. It's not much different from asking where someone lives.
I'm in my mid 30's and American. I'd say that it depends, from my own view growing up as an upper-middle class white guy.Mersadeon said:
My friends and I would talk about this, in particular coworkers doing the same job - this was actually good, because as I recall in the 90's it led to many of the Gen Y crowd actually figuring out what they were worth and what they could get paid for it - myself included.
On the other hand, I wouldn't ask a stranger or somebody that didn't work with me this question unless I was interested in pursuing it as a career. That just seems a little odd. "So you say you're a librarian, eh? What do they pull in?"
Not so much rude as... an unexpected question. If somebody who didn't know me well asked me I'd probably have no problem answering them though I think it's a little strange to ask. If somebody who I worked with asked me I'd figure it was obviously for personal economic reasons, for example: Is that gnome dude getting paid more for the same work I do.
Etc.
Context really matters. If you asked someone out of the blue how many people they've slept with, it's rude or at the least in poor taste.
Usually you only ask if you think someone is making more than you. Who, besides your parents, has ever asked how much you make at a shitty job? If you have a shitty job then I guarantee that no one cares.
The other thing is asking about it while dating, it's shallow.
This is a generalization, but the Brits I've worked with find talking about personal things like politics, religion, money, even family to be none of anybody else's business and get offended if you're an American trying to get to know them. But take a place like Israel, politics and religion are everything, it's how you define yourself and it can't be avoided.
What's probably more rude (and many people are more sensitive about in America) is questions of race/ethnicity. Also, sexuality. Asking someone what their ethnicity is or their sexual orientation is grounds for lawsuits here. Why? Because people are assholes and BTW, you're not proving yourself as a human being if you have to resort to lawsuits for quick cash. The other part of sexuality is asking how many people you've been with or dick/bra size. Lawsuit city.
Not that the average person is going to sue you for being rude, but since we're talking about earnings here, we are therefore talking about the workplace, which is where you get your friend pool as an adult.
I always ask people, "is it OK if I ask you about..." If people don't what to talk about it then fine. I usually only even think about these things if it's germane to the conversation anyway.
As for me, it's very hard to insult me. I can't believe anyone that grew up with the internet hasn't grown a pair.
Usually you only ask if you think someone is making more than you. Who, besides your parents, has ever asked how much you make at a shitty job? If you have a shitty job then I guarantee that no one cares.
The other thing is asking about it while dating, it's shallow.
This is a generalization, but the Brits I've worked with find talking about personal things like politics, religion, money, even family to be none of anybody else's business and get offended if you're an American trying to get to know them. But take a place like Israel, politics and religion are everything, it's how you define yourself and it can't be avoided.
What's probably more rude (and many people are more sensitive about in America) is questions of race/ethnicity. Also, sexuality. Asking someone what their ethnicity is or their sexual orientation is grounds for lawsuits here. Why? Because people are assholes and BTW, you're not proving yourself as a human being if you have to resort to lawsuits for quick cash. The other part of sexuality is asking how many people you've been with or dick/bra size. Lawsuit city.
Not that the average person is going to sue you for being rude, but since we're talking about earnings here, we are therefore talking about the workplace, which is where you get your friend pool as an adult.
I always ask people, "is it OK if I ask you about..." If people don't what to talk about it then fine. I usually only even think about these things if it's germane to the conversation anyway.
As for me, it's very hard to insult me. I can't believe anyone that grew up with the internet hasn't grown a pair.
Ehhhhh, I think it's very situational in my neck of the US.
For instance, I don't really care much asking friends. Which, honestly, I'm not sure if it's because of the friendship or because we're at a point right now where we are all working jobs that we don't foresee will become our respective careers. I make minimum wage; so what? I'm only doing it for the time-being, to pay the bills.
On the other hand, I've asked a few people how much their work pays recently because I was strongly considering paying out-of-pocket for specialized training to do this repair work. I don't believe it was rude because they were offering advice on the topic and it was the kind of thing I had to weigh the financial pros/cons of.
For instance, I don't really care much asking friends. Which, honestly, I'm not sure if it's because of the friendship or because we're at a point right now where we are all working jobs that we don't foresee will become our respective careers. I make minimum wage; so what? I'm only doing it for the time-being, to pay the bills.
On the other hand, I've asked a few people how much their work pays recently because I was strongly considering paying out-of-pocket for specialized training to do this repair work. I don't believe it was rude because they were offering advice on the topic and it was the kind of thing I had to weigh the financial pros/cons of.
Born and raised Canadian here, and yes it's definitely a rude question to ask. It's not even just a case of asking a stranger as it's still rather rude even if you know the person unless that's specifcally something you're discussing.
Me? I am a fucking student. This economy has no place for someone who took a few extra years to get into university. So nothing. But it is not a topic I like, at all, cause...jackdeesface said:
My sister and her bloke are PhD students. They get paid jack shit. But, if I get onto the course I want to get onto, within a year of graduating I will be earning half again of what that household earns. Yet if I do not get onto that course I will end up a fucking barrista that can barely sustain life.
Its a shitty question. 90% of the time it will be embarrassing, for one reason or another.
Also, Black Mirror is just...
It fucks with your head. It fucks with your head so hard. I love it. I love how it reminds you that satire does not have to be funny. Satire can make you want to curl up and cry. It does NOT pull its punches and I love it all the more for it. The closest we have to comedy is the incredibly self referential 15 Million Merits.
Think about it. How is the main character from 15 Million Merits NOT Charlie Brooker? It goes full circle, his attack on society becomes an attack on himself, a reference to how pathetic an individual he sees himself to be and how pathetic he sees the rest of us to be.
And then you have... Fuck, I cannot remember what the episode was called.
The stuff from last series. The one with the Android. That still sends shivers down my spine. And the one with all the phones. That one was evil, excellent, believable. I guess that is what I love the most about Brooker, hell, the most about all good Sci-Fi.
Its not about showing us the fantastic worlds we could inhabit. Fuck that. I want to see a good, believable Dystopia. I want to see the walls we build to hide ourselves from the wolves come tumbling down in a giant metaphor for the monsters within. Genetic mutants? Fuck that. Aliens? Meh. The unquenchable horrors of the human mind combined with a vicious lust for technology and dominance?
Now that is more my kinda style.
I'd say that in most circumstances, it's rude. I've found that if I'm having a conversation with a very close friend or someone in my industry, it can sometimes be appropriate to vaguely discuss these types of things if it's relevant to the conversation. Most days though, people who are wanting to benchmark salaries for a particular job would just look on glassdoor or maybe do an internet search.
Overall, it's not really anyone's business to ask or know how much someone else makes unless they freely volunteer the information. Rule of thumb should be - when in doubt, don't ask.
Overall, it's not really anyone's business to ask or know how much someone else makes unless they freely volunteer the information. Rule of thumb should be - when in doubt, don't ask.
Is it rude - yes.
shoudl it be rude - no.
Will i ask anyway - yes. If you find it rude its your own problem. and i find the whole idea of hiding your earnings silly. yes, because not knowing how much you earn will certainly make decisions based on your actions much more grounded. For example if a person refuses to go to certain place because he cant afford it, but is afraid to say it because "its rude" then you will just think he does not want to, where if he told you you may even pay for him. in the end both parties loose.
I earn 400 euros a month.
shoudl it be rude - no.
Will i ask anyway - yes. If you find it rude its your own problem. and i find the whole idea of hiding your earnings silly. yes, because not knowing how much you earn will certainly make decisions based on your actions much more grounded. For example if a person refuses to go to certain place because he cant afford it, but is afraid to say it because "its rude" then you will just think he does not want to, where if he told you you may even pay for him. in the end both parties loose.
I earn 400 euros a month.
I dunno, Robopimp had the most chilling ending out of any of them in my eyes. It was somehow creepier thanjackdeesface said:
"We will punish you ever day until you die, turn it into sport and you will go through this every day, you will be terrified every day forever. Your guilt is immaterial. You cannot remember the crime you have committed. That does not matter.
Also this is a giant metaphor for passive society and reality TV."
Also this is a giant metaphor for passive society and reality TV."
And I love the Boris thing because its... Horrible, but I could see myself doing it. And I am a labour man. But if I lived in London, I would have voted for him to be mayor cause he is pretty good at it. I just wished he would declare himself independent. Did you know he used to be a liberal before going mad with an attempt to get power?
Yeah, you heard me.
The weird thing about the memory recorder episode is I could not help thinking "I would love that." I am a self-confessed technophile. Half of me goes "HOLY SHIT GOOGLE GLASSES ARE TERRIFYING." the other half goes "IF I HAD THE MONEY, WOULD WANT.", I love technology. I love every aspect of it. That episode did raise some interesting questions though.
I mean, I naturally sometimes think of my first girlfriend. That is normal, right? Everyone who has ever been in love probably does it sometimes. And of course, my mind will wander to the highlights (The good AND the shitty bits) and some of those highlights are, well, sex. Naturally. Now does that make me a bad person? Does the mind occasionally wandering back to sex you had a few years go (Oh god. 5 years ago. Fuck I feel old.) make you a bad person?
I mean, if I found out a friend of mine was fantasizing about fucking my girlfriend, I would be creeped out and just a little bit... Scared, and maybe angry. Is it any different? Does the fact that I do remember those occasions rather vividly speak badly about me? Am I wrong because I still have the "Highlight Reel" of the most romantic occasions of my life?
Am I no better than the creeper in that episode simply because I do not want to forget these moments? Does it make it better that she is dead? Does it make it FAR worse? Does someone have a right to know someone elses memory? Would the world be worse off if we could play back our own memories to notice the things we did not notice the first time around, the slight pause before an "I love you" or are we far better as we are now, flawed, forgetting the things our brain wants us to forget. Does our world need to be based in fantasy for us to survive?
Fuck I love black Mirror. I fucking love good sci-fi. Good sci-fi combined with mind-shattering satire, social commentary and fucking dystopias in general is... Scarring.
By the way, to anyone who is reading this and going "Man, I should really watch this Black Mirror thing, it sounds AWESOME!" please do not watch it alone. If you do, watch it after a nice meal and in a well lit room. The first episode can really fuck with your head. Its all creepily believable. And it can be soul crushing. Some people I have introduced it too have gone "Fucking hell [redacted], that was one of the most amazing things I have ever watched." Others have asked me why I would do that to them. Why I would make them watch something so fucked up.
Its worth watching. I would also advise tracking down everything Brooker has ever produced and consuming it.
EDIT:
Something on topic.
Seems we have an arbiter of social norms here guysStrazdas said:
Sorry, that is not how interaction works. I would also find it rude of you to shove your cock in my face. Sure, if you did it, you would find out if I liked cock and that could be the start of a beautiful relationship, sure you could have nothing wrong with shoving your cock in my face, but if I find your actions rude, you have reason to believe I will find your actions rude and then you do that thing which you think I will find rude, that is not just my problem. Its your problem as well. You chose to be rude.
Lots of things humans do are silly. Hiding your social worth, or disagreeing that you should be rated upon how much you earn, is not that silly. Not really.
You know, I can tell you I cannot afford to go somewhere without ever disclosing my earnings. Infact, I have done it multiple times. You can find out I do not want to go somewhere because I find it too expensive without knowing if I earn 5 dollars a year, 300,000 dollars a year or if I have spiralled into more debt than you can imagine. How much I am earning does not matter. My willingess to pay for things and how much I earn are two separate factors.
Hell, if you know I earn, say, 100,000 dollars a year and then I say "I am sorry, I cannot afford that" thanks to knowing how much I earn you might think I am a tight arse. Then you will think less of me because based on your understanding, I should be wealthy!
Yet imagine I have a huge mortgage and student debts to pay off. Oh, and an ex partner who has my kid that I am paying for. And my car, I never paid that off, I actually got the loan for it and the house when I was on 150,000 a year. In comparison to your 400 euros a month, I am incredibly poor. But you would think, what with all the money I am raking in with my salary, that I am wealthy. I would then be expected to pay for you, because I know you are earning less than me.
Better to not ask and just do whatever. How much money you earn is of very little consequence. What you do with your money and how much you earn are two different things. Nobody knows precisely how poor, or rich, I am. Bar perhaps my ex partner. And that is how it should be.
Me and some other bloke are currently having a pretty awesome discussion about something that we both love. We do not need to know how much either of us are earning to have this discussion. I am not ever going to ask how much he earns, nor will he ask me. It does not matter.
I understand that asking how much a person earns is rude (after all, they could not be doing as well as they would like), but asking someone about their politics or religion is tantamount to asking for their opinion on something. I am suspicious of people who won't discuss their politics or religion, because it often means they have a good reason to be ashamed of them.Kristian Fischer said:
As a Brit I would consider it very rude. However, in the military we all know how much each other earn because it's linked to rank.
I hate being asked, and there is no reason why anyone should ever ask it. My stock answer is just, 'enough'.
I hate being asked, and there is no reason why anyone should ever ask it. My stock answer is just, 'enough'.
Couldn't have put it better myself!Mr F. said:
Your analogies of why we don't let people know our incomes are spot on, and the fact that you own nice things, or appear to have a lot of expenditure is neither here nor there!
Also... I totally agree with you on the social acceptability front. If it is considered rude, and someone asks anyway, first I would take it on the chin and think they may not know. I would gently brush it off, but not submit. If they persist because they somehow think that they are above social norms and that what they do isn't rude because they consider it not to be then they would receive a justifiable 'fuck off' and a stiff cold shoulder, mirroring their arrogant attitude.
Finally... I am also a fan of Black Mirror!
Although I am at a disadvantage as I have only seen the first series. The second came out whilst I was in the Middle East, and I never got round to watching it! Is it on Netflix/4OD?I found the memory machine one very close to home. I lost my last relationship after 4 years to a bout of jealousy brought on by work related stress. Watching how the characters in that acted, and comparing it to how I would have acted if we had that tech was rather scary. Brooker does a fantastic job of making abstract ideas incredibly realistic, focusing on the human interaction! (Something that British drama and TV seems to do the best. Realistic emotion and character interactions. Part of the reason I like to watch British films so much. I watched Fish Tank recently, which was about a chavvy girl with attitude problems trying to get out of her shitty life. The characters were really good!)