I actaully agree with the guy you were talking to. Each person should have a right to their own life. Who are we to dictate whether or not they live? We are we to force them to carry on? Do you honestly believe that society should be able to say "No, you aren't allowed to end your life"? I mean, in what world do we live in when a person can't even decide their own death? And I think it's wrong to take that choice away from someone.
Is it selfish to prevent people from commiting suicide?
- Thread starter krazykidd
- Start date
I believe it may be selfish. I think that the reasons I would intervene is because if I didn't take the opportunity to prevent it, then I would feel guilty about not trying to save someone from themselves. Thus making me selfish for protecting my conscience for myself. Or if I just wanted to not be hurt emotionally if it was someone whom I cared about who was attempting suicide.
Just like Thistle you seem to have a totally inability to recognize the difference between love, which is selfless, and selfishness. I would gladly have taken my uncles place so that he wouldn't kill himself. I would have died for him, but I was never given that option. I would have wanted to save him out of love for him and the desire to see him faced with the opportunity to be happy again. He's dead now though, which means he can't physically be happy. He made a choice under the influence of alcohol and depression, and needed someone to help him.Shadesong said:
If you feel that love is hypocrisy, then you are to be pitied. Suicide is selfish, horribly and disgustingly selfish. Those who can't see that don't know what they are talking about, or do not have the self awareness they pride themselves on. Every decision we make is not selfish, that method of thinking removes love from humanity which does exist in very real form and does override our instinct for survival. You gain nothing by taking a bullet for someone, it's not a selfish decision. Killing yourself is the opposite of that, what does that leave?
This is a serious topic with possible consequences, I think the disregard for this being shown by some is almost criminal.
I tried to kill myself about a month ago. Regretted it a lot. If someone had stopped me, I would be very happy with them right now. No, it isn't selfish because NO ONE knows NO ONE. By that I mean every person affects at least one person.
And to those people saying depression doesn't affect it, well for me at least, you are wrong.
And to those people saying depression doesn't affect it, well for me at least, you are wrong.
I agree with your friend. Trying to prevent suicide is selfish. The only person that should have control over your life is you. If you overthink the subject, you just go into how one side is more selfish than the other and it becomes impossible to come to a verdict. Stopping at "It's a personal right" is the best course of action, in my opinion.
This. Anyone who says otherwise is probably just still in their 'I'm-an-angsty-15-year-old-who-hates-everything' phase.kane.malakos said:
The person who wants to commit suicide is the one who is being selfish (Well Im sure other people had said that before me), because they end their own pain and pass it onto everyone thats important to them and more.
Alright, so you are saying morals and ethics are superior to law and order? Because according to you people can die how they want and live how they want not following the rules of the majority. Let me tell you this, your arguement is heavily constructed on feelings and ideals that simply cannot be applied to the real world. Saying 'people can choose to go out how they want without a thought to those around them' is perhaps to you, a beautiful thought. But it simply does not work, if I said. -I wanna go out of this world being eaten by another man- well. Other peoples morals would obviously object to it and so would the law (I believe cannibalism is against the law in most countries) Thats my death affected by soceity. And no, we cannot say that we can choose when and how we go out ignoring law, because that would cause soceity to crumble, and if you'd see that happend then allow me to respectfully disagree. Sure, you can choose to go out by taking your own life. But it just so happends that it is pretty looked down upon and also illigal to cause psycological harm to others. Which will happend the moment you take your own life. And saying that law doesnt count for suicide it a plain, straight up lie. Somebody still gets hurt, if they get hurt to a larger magnitude, well thats debatable. But one life is not worth more than the others, you are not worth more than the next. And if you 'think' you are worth more than someone else, you are arrogant. And egoistic, and therefor choosing a way out thats illigal and arrogant. Is selfish.Nihilism_Is_Bliss said:
Tbh we are going in circles, you are obviously quite set on your point and you will not move me from mine as I find mine more logical and yours less. Lets let it be that.
Nah.
Suicide in itself is selfish IMO. Running away from your problems like a ***** and leaving it to everyone else to clean up your mess. Sp preventing someone from committing suicide isn't selfish when you're just preventing someone elsde from acting selfish.
Suicide in itself is selfish IMO. Running away from your problems like a ***** and leaving it to everyone else to clean up your mess. Sp preventing someone from committing suicide isn't selfish when you're just preventing someone elsde from acting selfish.
That depends on how you'd go about preventing the suicide.
If "prevent" here has a meaning of "making unable to", then yes, it's incredibly selfish. Their lives, their choice. It is obscenely egocentric to require of someone to live just for what little value their lives are to you.
However, if "prevent" here means "making it worth living and thus dissuading them from suicide", then I'd say it's quite a positive act.
On a side note, I don't think suicide is "right or wrong". It's all down to circumstances.
If "prevent" here has a meaning of "making unable to", then yes, it's incredibly selfish. Their lives, their choice. It is obscenely egocentric to require of someone to live just for what little value their lives are to you.
However, if "prevent" here means "making it worth living and thus dissuading them from suicide", then I'd say it's quite a positive act.
On a side note, I don't think suicide is "right or wrong". It's all down to circumstances.
I think it's selfish to commit suicide if you have rsponsibilities, like a family that rellies on you, but some people, who have nothing, and are really depreseed, then it's up to them. If they don't want to live anymore, then fair enough, go ahead have fun doing it, as it's the last thing they will do.
More logical? Hardly. You're just saying because it is law, it must be what is right. That is closed mindedness.Nikolaz72 said:
Of course I view my personal philosophies as more correct than the law. If we just accepted the law as it is, there would be no law reform and there would be many more stupid laws.
Order? I hardly see giving people the right to die as something that threatens social order, though it is, ridiculously, against the law.
To me, taking your own life, basically the only thing that could fundamentally be considered one's only true possession, is not something any law gets a say over. And honestly, isn't really a law taken all that seriously anyway. It's either a simple deterrent or a religious relic.
Many of my personal ideals are indeed ones that could arguable not be applied effectively in the real world, but deterring stigmatism against suicidal people, and giving people the right to die as they choose, are not two of them. Those ideals are two that could very easily be applied to the real world.
I think you kind of miss my point with your odd cannibal analogy. Though that level of libertarianism and strength of consent are not necessarily ideals I wholly disagree with, it's kind of separate to the point I was trying to make. I'm not giving absolute, unlimited freedom to the way in which a person dies to the point that it verges on completely separate ethical boundaries, but allowing one to choose when and how (in a limited sense) they want to die. If possible by taking their OWN life.
And no, I agree that on a fundamental level there isn't really any meaning to the word 'value' so nobody is worth any more than anyone else. As irrelevant as that may be.
And yeah, we're obviously not going to agree, but I felt inclined to write this anyway so you can better understand my points, seeing as you didn't seem to quite grasp the relevance of what I was trying to say.
Suicides giving prison time, sure that doesnt make any sense. Death sentence? Ridiculous. Any kind of monetary punishment or community service? Wont help one bit.Nihilism_Is_Bliss said:
But even though I dont think it should have any punishment, I still think it should be a crime as it usually does induce a burden on someone, be it by making them feel horrible, making more than one person feel horrible. Or by costing someone else their money for your life.
Essentialy like File Sharing, Illigal with no punishment. I dont think taking your own life should be legal as it doesnt belong in a civilized soceity (Opinion)
Also. Suicide is usually a permanent solution to something that could easily be a tempoary setback. Lost the love of your life at the age of sixteen. Takes overdose of painkillers to end it all as it will never be better again.
Or debt.
Or loss of a loved ones life.
Perhaps a mixture of tons of shit happening at the same time.
Humans are pretty hardy and can withstand a lot. There is always an alternative to suicide. And most can agree that any alternative to killing yourself is probably a better solution. For everyone.
The key-word I have trouble getting over here is 'usually'. The fact it isn't always true.Nikolaz72 said:
That and my fundamental disagreement with the train of thought.
Still, I won't lie. I can at least see where you're coming from, even if I disagree.
Good banter it has been, Nikolaz72, sir.
It's not selfish to stop someone if you are the person that has to clean up afterwards. That at least is certain.
You are all entitled to your opinions but when you reach the point where you start asking the hard questions of yourself you will find a reason to live or a reason to die. 11 years on and my reason to die has not changed one jot and thats despite having happy and sad times inbetween. Is this the magical depression we have all been told about? The one that isn't curable and only treatable with the harshest fucking opiates going? Walking dead or actually dead? I fail to see the difference. One makes loved ones cry, the other makes loved ones alienated and sad...big heap of misery or long term sadness?
Not everyone needs to survive, not everyone deserves to live, nobody has the understanding to make the decision except about themselves.
As always the lack of empathy i see in other people fucking disgusts me. Seriously, do you really ever think about a problem from a different angle or do you always corrupt the thought process with selfish desires of your own? It's not an easy thing to see yourself through the eyes of your enemies, but you can't begin to understand yourself until you do.
Not everyone needs to survive, not everyone deserves to live, nobody has the understanding to make the decision except about themselves.
As always the lack of empathy i see in other people fucking disgusts me. Seriously, do you really ever think about a problem from a different angle or do you always corrupt the thought process with selfish desires of your own? It's not an easy thing to see yourself through the eyes of your enemies, but you can't begin to understand yourself until you do.
*facepalm*Master_of_Oldskool said:
Depression/sadness (chemically speaking there's no real difference between the two if we're strictly looking at brain chemistry) is occuring HENCE IT IS NATURAL. UNNATURAL EVENTS CAN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY DEFY THE LAWS OF NATURE.
Depression is NOT a recognized disease, it's just an arbitrary invention. From a purely scientific standpoint it's impossible to distinguish a depression from sadness. That's a fact you can't escape from.
Also there's no certainty what so ever that depressions are purely an internal problem that ISN'T brought about external stimulus.
Please, consult the actual studies and science behind the topic before making statements about it.