Is Mass Effect an jRPG?

[Atmos Duality]

It's not from Japan. Ergo, it cannot be a jrpg.

/close thread

 

[Not-here-anymore]

There really needs to be more of a distinction between stats-customisation games and role-playing games.

This seems to be the main difference between JRPG's and WRPG's. J's tend more towards stats meddling and different character builds, W's more towards choice in how things are done (like ME2). I'll stress now that the above is very much a generalisation, I'm aware that some games do both, and some games do the opposite of what I indicated. Please don't bombard me with examples of how I'm wrong.

 

[scorptatious]

I'm pretty sure Mass Effect wasn't made in Japan, so it can't be a JRPG.

Second the characters,while for one they aren't 13 yr old kids(I'm sure there are jrpg with adults somewhere)

Final Fantasy VII's main cast consists of almost entirely adults. (With the exception of Yuffie and Red XIII, who by his race's standards is considered a teenager at his age.)

 

[Brutal Peanut]

Nothing wrong in having problems and as I said the difference btwn an jrpg character and an western rpg char is how they deal with them. Not gonna argue about chars beeing useless or not even if I always used Miranda because or her sqaud bonus hp and dmg but as I said there's a huge difference btwn how Jacob deals with what his father did and how Tali deals with hers.

Those are two very different situations, given to two characters who aren't even of the same species and culture. I'm a ME2 lore-hound and I could write a huge paragraph about the differences like I was going to do, but no one wants to read that and it will take too much time to type out.

You are trying to base your whole arguement on the fact that the characters have different personalities and handle things differently. Those are the RPG elements. Almost 'all' games have those. So, yes, ME2 may share RPG elements with other games, but that doesn't strictly make it an JRPG. You are also trying to avoid looking at art style,game-style, and in-game combat systems and say they should have nothing to do with the argument, but those things actually make up a huge part of certain game genres, like JRPGS.

-Also, people do become obsessed with things. Make fan-clubs, t-shirts, and goodness knows what else. Harry Potter, Twilight, video games. That's not just JRPG fan-base behavior, that's just people being..weird...lol-

 

[ACman]

It's not from Japan. Ergo, it cannot be a jrpg.

/close thread

I dunno I'd definately lump Anachronox in with JRPGs and it's western apart from its gameplay mechanic.

If the japanese made a western style rpg I'd call it an RPG. If anybody made something appoximating FF or Chronotrigger or whatever I'd call it a jrpg. I thing jrpg as a descriptor has transcended being linked to country of origin.

Otherwise I agree with everybody else. It's a talky shooter where you can't aim for crap for a while.

 

[kasperbbs]

I haven't seen anyone with ridiculous hairstyle in mass effect(except the aliens) and there were no teenage girls to be found so no, its no a JRPG.

Miranda's little sister is still teenage if I remember. She's approaching legal (womanhood when in the convo) when you save her.

So i guess it really is a JRPG. I dont recall if Miranda's sister was wearing a very short dress and did she have ridiculously huge boobs?

 

[Cenequus]

Nothing wrong in having problems and as I said the difference btwn an jrpg character and an western rpg char is how they deal with them. Not gonna argue about chars beeing useless or not even if I always used Miranda because or her sqaud bonus hp and dmg but as I said there's a huge difference btwn how Jacob deals with what his father did and how Tali deals with hers.

Those are two very different situations, given to two characters who aren't even of the same species and culture. I'm a ME2 lore-hound and I could write a huge paragraph about the differences like I was going to do, but no one wants to read that and it will take too much time to type out.

You are trying to base your whole arguement on the fact that the characters have different personalities and handle things differently. Those are the RPG elements. Almost 'all' games have those. So, yes, ME2 may share RPG elements with other games, but that doesn't strictly make it an JRPG. You are also trying to avoid looking at art style,game-style, and in-game combat systems and say they should have nothing to do with the argument, but those things actually make up a huge part of certain game genres, like JRPGS.

Totally agree with you the main reason I can't stand jRPGs are the art style and obsolete combat system. But everybody and his mother always told me to try and look beyond that because of great story or whatever. That's why in my example I let those pass and focus on that. Also consider me superficial and insensible(I'm a guy after all)but they don't act like adults in those situations,forget Tali but look at Thane,Liara,Jack.

 

[kickyourass]

It's not a JRPG because it's not made in Japan. QED.

Thank you sir, you took the word right out of my mouth.

 

[NotYetForsaken]

Your accusation is broad and firmly clumps a genre of games together as one to exemplify a misguided view.

On the flip side, with Japan's culture saturation it's nearly impossible to avoid either Japanese influence or Japan being influenced itself. So traces of it are just in most people's psyche and that's what gets the comparison marked off to.

I'm the first to wear the pink western RPG supremacy over jRPGs but not in this case. There was no accusation or atleast not in my intent. Was just pointing some similarities and how people built cults around those. Thing is it's not your usual Baldur's gate nerds that do it which would have been normal...not exactly but sort off. But "normal people". To make another example(Poor Tali) the biggest Tali fanclub is called "Team Tali",nothing strange even for me at first look,just that it bears the same image/style and t-shirts with Edward Cullen in Team Twilight. Call me strange but those are the people that like angsty teenagers in films/music/games.

Were you not stating that Mass effect 2 is a JRPG-esque game? That sounds like an accusation to me. The word doesn't always carry a negative denotation.

Now I want you to know something. Team Tali is made up of the same people who formed the Imoen/Minsc fanclub for Baldur's Gate. Tali is an exported character, from your own fucking counter argument.

The last statement made me chuckle a bit, that is such a massive generalization of Fan Clubs that its comparable to generalizing the Universe as "big." Every single fan club, whether it be for Hoshi no Kaabi (a children aimed Anime no less) to Twilight (angst-based sex fantasy) to Musical Groups (Mindless Groupies). Every fan club follows the same organization and display pattern, the only difference being how obnoxious they are (see MLP:FiM.)

Your points are all to general in the sea of entertainment. I want to say it's akin to pointing at a block of irridium and calling it a diamond because both are hard.

 

[NotYetForsaken]

I haven't seen anyone with ridiculous hairstyle in mass effect(except the aliens) and there were no teenage girls to be found so no, its no a JRPG.

Miranda's little sister is still teenage if I remember. She's approaching legal (womanhood when in the convo) when you save her.

So i guess it really is a JRPG. I dont recall if Miranda's sister was wearing a very short dress and did she have ridiculously huge boobs?

Cute, Miranda's sister was wearing a blue Illium designed full length dress with a breast window. She also uses the default female character model used by everyone but Miranda and Kelly/Tali.

 

[PastaGabe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the only reference to Bioware being inspired by Final Fantasy was the helmet-goggle mask that the Blue Suns mercenaries used as well as some aesthetics but that wasn't from any of the games, it was from the cgi movie. I just wanted to check on that, I couldn't care less for the rest of the argument.

 

[CleverCover]

I don't think it's an JRPG.
A JRPG is an RPG made in Japan.

And really, characteristics of characters aren't only allowed to be in certain stories. Every game has the, my family was killed by evil dude and now I'm seeking revenge or something. That cliche isn't something only WRPG's have.

So no.

 

[FinalHeart95]

No, because it's not Japanese. What you described tends to be tropes used in japanese development of RPGs, but not necessary to be a JRPG.

Also, see the second half of Final Fantasy VI and call that linear.

 

[Eduku]

Does it really have to be made in Japan (according to so many comments here) to really be a JRPG? People call Demon's Souls a WRPG even though it's made in Japan. Inversely, Anachronox is called a JRPG even though it was made in the US.

Also, the use of JRPG stereotypes is astounding.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I thing jrpg as a descriptor has transcended being linked to country of origin.

The reason I didn't even bother describing anything in distinction there is because for decades now, the term "RPG" (beyond the very-direct "Rocket-Propelled-Grenade") lacks a clear, concise definition apart from (arguably) "it has stats".

You could ask 1000 different gamers what an "RPG" is, and they wouldn't be able to give you a clear response without directly referencing another RPG. "X is defined as being like Y".
Without those frames of reference (which ISN'T what a definition is; a definition is the specific meaning of something; not the "vague, sort-of-like-that" meaning of something) I bet you would get hundreds of different responses at least. Similar, but not the same by any means.

Fewer gaming terms are so ambigous and "fuzzy" in their nature.

The only parts of jrpgs that fall into some sort of consistency (and I say take this with a mountain of salt), are the tropes that are popular in Japanese culture. Children, magic, school stress, cutesy-ness, epic karate/sword battle duels, etc.

Mass Effect doesn't follow any of those tropes directly. Maybe a few jrpg tropes, but the game is decidedly NOT culturally Japanese. At all.

ASIDE: Re-Captcha had a phrase that was COMPLETELY UPSIDE DOWN.
This shit is just getting ridiculous now.

 

[Cenequus]

Your accusation is broad and firmly clumps a genre of games together as one to exemplify a misguided view.

On the flip side, with Japan's culture saturation it's nearly impossible to avoid either Japanese influence or Japan being influenced itself. So traces of it are just in most people's psyche and that's what gets the comparison marked off to.

I'm the first to wear the pink western RPG supremacy over jRPGs but not in this case. There was no accusation or atleast not in my intent. Was just pointing some similarities and how people built cults around those. Thing is it's not your usual Baldur's gate nerds that do it which would have been normal...not exactly but sort off. But "normal people". To make another example(Poor Tali) the biggest Tali fanclub is called "Team Tali",nothing strange even for me at first look,just that it bears the same image/style and t-shirts with Edward Cullen in Team Twilight. Call me strange but those are the people that like angsty teenagers in films/music/games.

Were you not stating that Mass effect 2 is a JRPG-esque game? That sounds like an accusation to me. The word doesn't always carry a negative denotation.

Now I want you to know something. Team Tali is made up of the same people who formed the Imoen/Minsc fanclub for Baldur's Gate. Tali is an exported character, from your own fucking counter argument.

The last statement made me chuckle a bit, that is such a massive generalization of Fan Clubs that its comparable to generalizing the Universe as "big." Every single fan club, whether it be for Hoshi no Kaabi (a children aimed Anime no less) to Twilight (angst-based sex fantasy) to Musical Groups (Mindless Groupies). Every fan club follows the same organization and display pattern, the only difference being how obnoxious they are (see MLP:FiM.)

Your points are all to general in the sea of entertainment. I want to say it's akin to pointing at a block of irridium and calling it a diamond because both are hard.

Not such a big generalizion if you google search Mass Effect team tali without safe search. But hey generalizing is always wrong,the fact it's a copycat of the team twilight made me say that,and I'm one pretty neutral on subject(better read something stupid rather than not read anything at all).

Not trying to prove anything actually but at this point anything is ok since most posts are "it's not jRPG because it's not made in japan".

 

[Hollock]

Not at all. Besides Bethesda, Bioware makes the most western western RPGs

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

it's a Bioware RPG. that should be a genre in itself a bRPG. [/bad jokes]

in all seriousness, j in jRPG stands for Japanese. Now you can't really call a game that has not been made by the Japanese a jRPG.
Bioware games were always about the story and characters. Yes, there are a few cliches here and there and the setting is nearly always god-awful but the writing and the way Bioware can build a consistent world is nothing short of excelent. It's this focus on the world and characters in it that makes fanboys rage about Tali's mask and so forth.
So no, definitely not a jRPG.

 

[akkronym]

I'm going to assume that you recognize the "j" in "JRPG" stands for Japanese and not simply say that it was made in the West (in other words, you are almost completely wrong at face value but I'll ignore your poor choice in label).

JRPGs did not invent linearity, nor are Western RPGs defined by being open world. Sure, Bethesda's games tend to be but the linearity you are talking about refers to following a specific character and learning about him or her, NOT creating your own and making almost all the decisions past, present, and future, for them. Yes, there is a certain level of plot progression that requires you to follow the main story in order to continue on in the game and no, it isn't self sustainable by hangout out on a random planet playing mini games. Neither of those are the definition of "an jRPG."

JRPGs did not invent character cliches, nor are Western RPGs absent of them all together. You may be confusing Final Fantasy's blatant reusing and re-purposing of old character archetypes, game mechanics, and themes (something that should not be read as an insult because its the familiarity that makes Final Fantasy a franchise rather than 13 games made by Square that don't relate to each other), as the basis for saying all JRPGs use character archetypes. Problem is those predate gaming. They predate film. Shakespeare had character Archetypes and Romeo and Juliet wasn't a JRPG. Does Mass Effect have characters with stories you've probably heard before? Sure. So does Gears of War, Left 4 Dead, Fallout, even the Need for Speed games. Anything that tells a story draws from the pool of character archetypes to start with and build from.

And your final point is that the fans write fanfiction it must be a JRPG? Not even gonna go there.

As to the "Why don't the bring back the whatever instead of focusing on the in-game mystery not yet revealed of whatever?" They took the upgrade system out because they (keyword here, they - read Bioware) felt it was too cumbersome and required you to constantly pull yourself out of the action to manage your inventory. Personally I didn't mind it and the whole strip mining aspect of ME2 was less desirable than buying and upgrading weapons as I went and specializing them to my situation. The skill system you are talking about (I'm assuming it was the level up portion) was streamlined so that you didn't have 20 different spots to put points in for random characters without understanding what you doing. You want them to have a more powerful Slam attack, then give points to Slam. Not +2% Damage and +3% Duration like in the first game. I'm not saying it was for the betterment of the game but it broadened their audience without sacrificing really anything major from the experience. As for the Tali thing, for you, I will apologize on behalf of the entire ME community for character about anything other than "Does Shepherd save the Galaxy?" because its clear that in an RPG that is in question rather than the entire universe of other details that could be explained further in ME3. ME1 was a good game but its RPG elements overshadowed the shooter portions and it was criticized for its slow pace and few and far between action sections. ME2 was a little too much action shooter at the expense of the RPG. It's up to Bioware to find a blend of the two to please fans. We'll see.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

More exactly the second one. Now i know even Bioware said they were inspired by Final Fantasy and all but I always dissmised claims like that in general just because people always use classic games more often to say what type of games they loved/grew up rather than what their game actually looks up.

Now for Mass Effect 2,first of all I really enjoyed them game and the only flaws I could bring to it are how limited it is when it comes to side quests(still a 30ish hours game so not bad overall),almost absent if not lacking at all RPG elements(you can take almost any new FPS and it has pretty much the same in depth rpg elements) and some characters. Now I know putting big points like that one might think it's actually a big deal but even with those I really enjoyed the game.

Now what makes of it an jRPG: well for one to a certain degree the linearity but not by itself it's a linearity that includes side quest(not sure if I explained myself properly).

Second the characters,while for one they aren't 13 yr old kids(I'm sure there are jrpg with adults somewhere) with few exceptions(Jacob and Miranda only come to mind now)the rest are pretty much jRPG clichès. A good example is the behavior a Jacob and Tali vs their respective fathers. But overall any can fit some jRPG archetype and those that know them better could actually make examples for each,this includes Liara,Tali,Thane,Legion,Garrus,Jack with personalities I probably wouldn't dislike that much if I didn't had "normal" personalities(Jacob,Miranda as i said) to compare them.

Now nothnig wrong in the end and I can say I finally liked a jRPG but I made one fatal error that made me reflect more on this subject and open to disscusion...I visited the bioware forum for ME. My mind exploded not at the amount of fanfic that can rival any anime,manga or japanese game but the actual war btwn fanbois of this char vs another. And I mean hundred of thousand of posts with threads having thousand of pages about how much they loved Liara or Tali.

Now I always thought Bioware will take the best of ME1 and ME2 and easylly make out of ME3 the best game ever but I don't know since people think unmasking Tali is a higher priority than bringing back the skill system or the upgrade/modding of weapons and armor.

TL;DR I liked ME2 even if it's an jRPG...kinda...both.

While teenagers are used in JRPG's a lot, 13 year olds are not the staqrs. It's in the older teen area and the younger kid area. And plus, since loads of JRPG's take place in different worlds and dimensions, maybe teenage to us is different to them. So people can finally shut the fuck up about the ages of characters and be fucking smart for once.

And there is usually a big thing about a JRPG:

IT'S MADE USUALLY IN JAPAN.

Look, I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I love JRPG's. And Mass Effect isn't on my love list. It's as non-JRPG you can get. Why? It's a sci-fi shooter with an in depth story too many people will kill each other over and has RPG elements.

And also tired of people listing fucked up stereotypes about JRPG's. Would any of you like to play a modern JRPG and come to realize that most of the characters aren't fucking 13 year olds who have fucked up hair? Hell, in Final Fantasy, it was mainly in the EARLY games that there were young kids.

And if people try to argue "Well what about in FF7? Cloud had fucked up hair and he was probably just a teenager." Well he could've been. But he was in basically the fucking army. He was apart of SOLIDER. His best friend died right in front of him and he had to watch as he fought his final fight.


AHEM.


Now that my little rant is over,

No. Mass Effect is not a JRPG. It's Bioware. And it's a Sci-Fi shoot'em up with RPG elements.