Is Militarism in Modern Games a Problem?

MaxwellDB

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I saw an ad on a website a bit ago that prompted me to write a blog post. [http://www.maxwelldb.com/2011/06/the-reaper-is-watching/] It's not required reading for this thread at all, but it does describe where I'm coming from with lots of pictures, I guess. Alternately, here's a quote from Dave Sirota's 'Back to Our Future':

In that capstone event of eighties militarism, the Gulf War, much of the American combat was waged electronically through Patriot missiles and smart bombs. Today, one of the military's strongest growth sectors is drone warfare, a form of combat that has soldiers sitting in Las Vegas at glorified arcade machines attacking targets in Afghanistan via video-game-style consoles that control unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

This gets to the deeper figurative truth of Reagan's prophecy about video games: While most of the gaming generation that came of age in the 1980s and beyond will never literally enlist and remote-control bomb Afghan villages, the games we've been playing for the last three decades have prepared us in the same way they?ve prepared those drone pilots.

Grounded in electronic simulation, video games decontaminate and dehumanize their subject matter. Viscera such as pain, injury, death, and "collateral damage"-i.e., the brutal consequences of war that might make us question militarism-are reduced to pixels if they are even depicted at all, and most times they aren't. Most often a game's player is killed only to instantly reappear unscathed.
As gamers, do you ever feel that you're being manipulated by games to adopt a certain mindset when it comes to relating to the world? Obviously, things like CoD and the Battlefield series might come to mind, but even simply having violence used as a tool for problem solving a disproportionate amount of the time rather than making available things like speech checks in Fallout or sneaking in Thief can count.
 

Techno Squidgy

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No, not really. While sometimes I think it would be nice to shoot a certain person, this has nothing to do with video games. More inspired by a couple of books I read, with really detailed executions in them...

I have two main groups of mindsets, gaming and normality. The two sets are mostly non-interchangeable. Certain puzzle solving aspects cross-over, but that's about it.

Games do not manipulate the way I perceive the world to any great effect.
 

Hamhandderhard

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Believe me, if I could convince the Germans/Russians/Aliens/whatever to not attack me and I won't attack them, I would.
 

goni

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Absolutely not.

I can see where people are coming from with this, but it's only a threat when you lack free thought. When I play a game, be it COD, BF or MOH, I understand what I'm doing is playing a game. Is it presented in such a way as to appear as realistic as possible? Sure it is, that's it's selling point, but that doesn't make it a tool developed in some way by the army to advance their arsenal. But I can also make the distinction between a game and reality. It's the exact same argument people bring against the Grand Theft Auto series. It comes down to the player being able to distinguish reality from virtual reality. If you can't tell the difference, or have a feeling that you can't tell the difference, please seek help.
 

MaxwellDB

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An interview pertinent to the topic: http://www.charlielawing.com/huntemann.pdf

I don't mean to intimate that playing a lot of games will cause you to disassociate from reality. What concerns me more is that modern warfare can be presented in a very sanitized manner; that, in turn, informs game creation. The end result is actually in the interview above: too much of a focus on quick thinking without really considering the ramifications of 'destructive' behavior and the reinforcement of fetishism for military technology. The latter issue, I think, is inarguably present in games: they shift your way of looking at things off of human issues and onto mechanical ones. This doesn't mean that you become a bloodthirsty person, but you might be more susceptible to, for example, accept uncritically a news story that focus more on military operations and equipment than civilian casualties.
 

DAPLR

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Seems like a mixed bag, that post. I agree war is bad, but I hate when anti-war people go to the extremes. The dead kid? Why? Feel bad about joining the army? No. Its propaganda.
Yahtzee said it best in one of the Silent Hill reviews. Who you are in a game and who you are in real life are two different things. Thats true even on a physcological level.

My answer whether war games are bad? No. There is no bad genre, nothing should be banned, no game outlawed. Only one game ever gave me pause for thought on whether it should be legal, and that was Rapelay (as bad as it sounds). But they are just pixels, and people are smarter than we we ourselves give them credit for. If they want to join the army, 90% are going for a cause they truly believe in. The rest are other. Y'know, money, serving some jail time (in some circumstances) etc.

Games are an expression, an art form. Some want to pick up the brush and paint a Mona Lisa, while others just wanna paint for fun. I'm DAPLR and I support Freedom, hell, we all do :)
 

TheLoneBeet

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My best friend and I have talked about this a lot. We both enlisted into the CF a couple months ago and are currently being processed (medical, background, etc.) but my parents' first concern was; "You only want to join because of those games, it's not like that y'know? When you die you won't just come back."

I believe that people get desensitized IN GAMES but I think if they were to have the actual consequences on their shoulders, they wouldn't be the same. Even if you're controlling a drone and it plays out almost exactly like a videogame, I still think it takes a whole different sort of person to be able to do the things they're expected to do and live with themselves afterwards. Same goes for any type of game.
 

MaxwellDB

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TheLoneBeet said:
My best friend and I have talked about this a lot. We both enlisted into the CF a couple months ago and are currently being processed (medical, background, etc.) but my parents' first concern was; "You only want to join because of those games, it's not like that y'know? When you die you won't just come back."

I believe that people get desensitized IN GAMES but I think if they were to have the actual consequences on their shoulders, they wouldn't be the same. Even if you're controlling a drone and it plays out almost exactly like a videogame, I still think it takes a whole different sort of person to be able to do the things they're expected to do and live with themselves afterwards. Same goes for any type of game.
Good point. I think that's really the crux of the issue-- it's not really that games can make you totally cool with killing people forever and ever, but that military-themed entertainment can, when not consumed critically, influence a population to use and accept war in situations where it shouldn't necessarily be an option.
 

DrOswald

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In that capstone event of eighties militarism, the Gulf War, much of the American combat was waged electronically through Patriot missiles and smart bombs. Today, one of the military's strongest growth sectors is drone warfare, a form of combat that has soldiers sitting in Las Vegas at glorified arcade machines attacking targets in Afghanistan via video-game-style consoles that control unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).
This statement misrepresents the issue in order to manipulate the reader to a certain point of view. It uses strong emotionally charged language in order to override logic in the reader to force a certain reaction.

It could have been written:

"In that capstone event of eighties militarism, the Gulf War, much of the American combat was waged electronically through Patriot missiles and smart bombs. Today, one of the military's strongest growth sectors is drone warfare, a form of combat that allows soldiers to control unmanned weapons from a safe location using a digital interface."

They mean the same thing and are both true, but they imply very different ideas. Each invokes a different emotional response, negative and positive respectively. From what I understand, the entire book is like that. I have no doubt that it is a very good book, but it is one man's analysis and is colored by his prejudices and opinion.

I do not point this out to be confrontational but to show that the writer of that statement was trying to manipulate you much more than video games manipulate us. Even truth, especially truth, is manipulation in the hands of a skilled writer. This is not necessarily bad, but never take anything you read at face value.

I don't think video game militarism is much of a problem because it is so different from the actual military. I know quite a few people in the military, and they made it clear that all that crap you see in video games, movies, and books is drilled out of you in boot camp.

Furthermore, most gamers I know are very nonviolent individuals. We play games like COD and all that but we can barely stand the sight of real blood. I believe the human mind is capable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality.
 

Thaluikhain

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MaxwellDB said:
As gamers, do you ever feel that you're being manipulated by games to adopt a certain mindset when it comes to relating to the world?
Specifically as a gamer, not really. However, games are part of our culture, and cultural influences play a massive role in shaping people's worldviews.
 

thiosk

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I think its great. When the north koreans invade, we'll all be able to take up robotic arms and defend our homeland.
 

Woodsey

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The only people I worry about are these people who claim we can't tell the difference, because obviously they are the ones who can't tell the different between real life and a game.

All this moronic, "you don't get to reload once you die like in a game, don't you know?" does my head in.

I don't bat an eye when I shoot people in games because I have the mental capacity to know they aren't real. It wouldn't make shooting a real person any easier.
 

Iron Mal

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Desensitisation and increased agression are things which have been attributed to games for a long time now with no real solid evidence besides 'it sounds about right', I'm skeptical about citing studies from either side of the debate for the main reason that they tend to either be politically motivated, have bad methadology or tend to come to their conslusions based more on assumption seeing as things such as aggression and temperment are high personal and subjective and cannot really be measured in a quantifiable or experimental fashion.

My opinion is that while violent or militaristic video games can have a certain level of influence it's no greater an impact than any other activity a person might do such as watching TV, watching the news, talking to friends and family or even just seeing billboards as you go about your day. All of these things influence us in a very minor way, this goes without saying, but to say that they have major impacts on our behavior seems very unlikely to me.

This model of violent images resulting in violent behavior is highly dependant on the consumers of a given media just being passive sponges who absorb anything they're shown and will just accept the messages (and more importantly will possess the understanding of these messages that the creators of a given media text intended us to have), all of these conditions are somewhat hard to back up though.

As for the idea of all viewers being passive, the fact that our collective understanding of the workings of the media and the use of subtext and symbolism shows that on the whole we all tend to be active participants, even in more 'passive' forms of media such as television, even though we don't directly impact the events on screen we do think over what we see and come to our own conclusion as to whether we agree or disagree with what a show tells us.

All media have messages in them (even the more simplistic games like Doom have the basic message of 'hell is bad, so is dying') and it is often very easy for us to not have the reaction that the creator of a film or game intended, for example, how many people do you know who think that the Dark Knight's Joker was right? Or who thought or Watchmen's Rorsharch (excuse my bad spelling) was an admirable or heroic character? Or sympathise and agree with the villains in video games? This again makes it harder for the 'corruption' of people by video games to be possible since this corruption effect would imply that there is a single message or view that the game is trying to manipulate us into holding and as a general rule this is just plainly impossible for all media forms outside of explicit propaganda (the way people think is too diverse and multi-lateral for such an effect to be created).

For the 'tl;dr' crowd, what I'm trying to say is yeah, some people probably did feel inclinded to join the army after playing CoD, but a lot more people didn't. Unless there's a trend where the majority of people who do something show the same behavior it's somewhat hard to prove that games are causing any noticable negative effects in people that wouldn't be caused by any other activity they could be doing, from what I've seen and read, such a trend simply doesn't exist outside of the rantings of the anti-gaming moral guardians.
 

MaxwellDB

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DrOswald said:
They mean the same thing and are both true, but they imply very different ideas. Each invokes a different emotional response, negative and positive respectively. From what I understand, the entire book is like that. I have no doubt that it is a very good book, but it is one man's analysis and is colored by his prejudices and opinion.

I do not point this out to be confrontational but to show that the writer of that statement was trying to manipulate you much more than video games manipulate us. Even truth, especially truth, is manipulation in the hands of a skilled writer. This is not necessarily bad, but never take anything you read at face value.
But can't a video game advance a particular point of view just as strongly as a book?

Also, to a few of the latest posts, just because you're critical of certain things in games, it does not mean that you're against games in general. The chapter Sirota devotes in his book to militarism in entertainment at no point expresses the idea that video games are *bad*-- he's simply critical of the synergy that has developed between big game developers and the armed forces, just as the one developed between the film industry and the armed forces.

The normalization of violence is only one part of the whole, and it's not even the biggest. That honor would go to how military influence on media affects how you relate to the very idea of war.
 

Jegsimmons

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nah, me like most people with brain cells, can tell the difference between real life combat and a simulation.

i've fired real guns and let me tell you, video games do them little credit.

and it's getting old that people are trying to find a link between video games and real life violence when it just doesn't exist.
 

SilentCom

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Personally, I don't believe I am being manipulated as I am aware that video games are nothing like real life. Although there are some people who can't seem to tell the difference... Those people you have to worry about.
 

DrOswald

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MaxwellDB said:
DrOswald said:
They mean the same thing and are both true, but they imply very different ideas. Each invokes a different emotional response, negative and positive respectively. From what I understand, the entire book is like that. I have no doubt that it is a very good book, but it is one man's analysis and is colored by his prejudices and opinion.

I do not point this out to be confrontational but to show that the writer of that statement was trying to manipulate you much more than video games manipulate us. Even truth, especially truth, is manipulation in the hands of a skilled writer. This is not necessarily bad, but never take anything you read at face value.
But can't a video game advance a particular point of view just as strongly as a book?
Certainly, but my point is that the writer of that statement was actively trying to manipulate you where as video games passively manipulate you. The writer is saying "This is how reality is" when he presents you with his rhetoric, actively trying to change your opinion to match his own. Most games say "This is how a certain fantasy vaguely related to reality is" and do not actively attempt to change your opinion.

My over all opinion is that you can never let your guard down, you can never take any statement anyone makes at face value, you can never play a game or read a book without it effecting you in some way. I just don't think the overall effect of video games is so powerful that we will begin preferring war over peace.

Plus, the message in almost all video games, including the heavy military ones, is "War is bad, but we fight because we have to." Many games revolve around finding a way to prevent or stop war, even if it usually is through violent means. The overall message is anything is better than war. Though that opens a whole new can of worms.
 

MrJKapowey

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Nope. The violence isn't, it could be seen as it if you're one of theose people who are scared by things like Nerf blasters ('I'm scared by guns. Real guns, Nerf guns: they all scare me.' Quote from teacher at Goucher college (From memory)) but I don't think it's a problem unless you have some kind of underlying mental health problem which makes it hard to seperate real life and fantasy.

Interestingly, I don't think any major mainstream game has got 'militarism' properly. I get an urge to hit someone if they use Call of Duty or Bad Coy. shortly after 'Realistic shooters like...'. It's not the physics and stuff like that, it's the bits where they claim to be all special forces and yet get fucked over because you are ordered to charge an MG or when a 'seasoned veteran' really screws up somethings name like calling an M16 a gun - it is a rifle or a weapon. Never a 'gun'.
 

MinionStarwind

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Apr 17, 2009
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Unless you're unable to distinguish games from reality, no.

Although, I do enjoy playing some CoD every once in a while imagining an 'Ender's Game'-style controlled mini-war.
 

ultratog1028

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I'm starting to thing there might be bad consequences for the entire industry if this over saturation continues. And I might start being pissed if I was russian and a gamer with all this "Russians are bad" in games recently. THE COLD WAR ENDED LIKE 20 YEARS AGO PEOPLE.