I severely doubt that just because it was banned that all spanking has ended. There is a vast difference in spanking a child and beating him or her.Tubez said:
Is punishing a kid consider abuse?
- Thread starter MasochisticAvenger
- Start date
I thought you said you watched the video. He DID do that, the first time she pulled that sort of thing. That's why she got her laptop taken away in the first place and that's why he said "If you do it again, I'll put a bullet through it." It's not his fault that she refused to take his warning to heart. In the future she knows now to trust her father's word.NoOne852 said:
In regards to punishment being abuse. No, kids should be punished when they do something wrong. Otherwise they grow up thinking anything they do is ok, and we get spoiled self-entitled people who have a much harder time contributing to society.
I've seen a couple people here who said stuff like "scientifically, spanking does no good." Yeah well guess what...that's not helpful. Scientifically people who smoke don't live as long, but one of the oldest living humans who made it to 116 was an avid smoker. Scientifically doesn't matter much to the individual.
I was spanked as a kid when I did something so bad that I deserved it, and it was never for a first time offense. Usually it was after my parents had explained to me that what I did was wrong.
I don't support people who just beat their kids over every little thing, but I do believe that a simple spank can be used to send a message across, especially when you've already exhausted other options to get your kid to behave.
However, spanking only does anyone any good if you explain to the kid why you're doing it.
The first time your kid does something bad, explain that they shouldn't do that. Second time, maybe go for the time out approach, something that sends a message of some sort. Third time, go for the spank and then explain why you did that. Kids aren't stupid, and if they know why that just happened, they'll usually be more careful, so as not to cause it again.
I agree. A gun is not a toy, it is a lethal weapon, and should be treated as such. It's one thing to take a decrepit laptop or computer and fill it full of holes on a range, another thing entirely to pull out a lethal weapon in the middle of a grown "man"'s temper tantrum.Erana said:
OT: There is a big difference between punishment and discipline. With punishment, there is no room for redemption, discipline is a part of a teaching or guidance. To just "punish" your kid, yes, that's wrong because they never learn anything but to fear and mistrust you. With discipline, there is learning involved, and discipline doesn't always have to be spanking. There are many ways to deal with issues, most of never involving striking your child or ever raising your voice.
Depends on the offense and the response, but "the line" of what is acceptable and what isn't changes per person. So the punishment you use being abuse is speculative, and annoying to pin down an absolute answer. I mean just look at all the different opinions in the posts above (and possibly below)
Im sure some people are still hitting their kids but I do not know anyone that has ever been hit by their parents. I do agree there is a difference but it's still abuse, same way that there are different level of assaultspectrenihlus said:
Here is some more information if you want to read.
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effects-no-spanking-law-child-abuse-328316.html?cat=72
"Studies done in 1981 and 1988 showed significant decreases in the use of physical punishment, support of physical punishment, and numbers of cases of child abuse (Hyman 1997). Hyman (1997), director of the National Center for the Study of Corporal Punishment and Alternatives reports that only 26 percent of parents in Sweden supported spanking in 1981, and the support rate is now less than 11 percent. In Deley's (1988) comparative study of child abuse 9 years after the prohibition of corporal punishment, 10.7% of American men and 8.2% of American women sampled stated that they had been victims of child abuse as children, compared to 3.9% of Swedish men and 0% of Swedish women in the sample. Finally, according to Joan Durrant, professor of family studies at the University of Manitoba in Canada, "Sweden went from a family violence- child death rate of 18% in 1970 to 0 percent in recent years" (Hyman 1997:215)."
Sending a kid to their room for a reasonable amount of time? Making them miss dinner one night? Temporarily taking away their access to video games or television? Suspending their allowance?
Not abuse.
Holding a mentally disabled child down and beating them for over an hour because they weren't acting exactly like all the other kids and then lying about it to the school board to get them punished for being "punished"?
Abuse.
I have extensive experience with the latter and therefore speak with authority on this topic.
Not abuse.
Holding a mentally disabled child down and beating them for over an hour because they weren't acting exactly like all the other kids and then lying about it to the school board to get them punished for being "punished"?
Abuse.
I have extensive experience with the latter and therefore speak with authority on this topic.
Punishment only turns to abuse if it's taken to extremes.MasochisticAvenger said:
Swatting a child's butt once with an open hand when they misbehave is one thing. Hitting them again and again while holding them down, especially if you hit them with something like a belt, paddle, or any other implement, is abuse. (for those parents not against spanking)
Temporarily taking a toy away from a child when they use it to misbehave is one thing. Forcing a child to get rid of their favorite toys themselves just for staying up past bed time is pushing it. (to be fair, he did say he tried talking to her, then temporarily taking away the laptop before shooting it. She had chances.)
It's astounding that people, parents and parents-some-day, treat any form of punishment or rule enforcement as a crime. Ignoring kids and teens comes with a special name: neglect. It mostly applies to cases where the kid is lucky to get food and a decent place to sleep, but why not apply it to cases when the parent turns a blind eye to bad and possibly dangerous behavior? They obviously don't care enough to try to stop it or ask for help.
Yes, punishing a child for something IS abuse. Wait, wait, before you all jump down my throat:
Disciplining a child, however, is not.
The etymology of the word punishment is that it comes from the French punissement, which literally means "rough handling".
Discipline's root is disciplina, which is Latin for "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge,".
Children need discipline over punishment because punishment comes without enlightenment. They don't learn anything from their mistake. Sure, they aren't likely to do whatever it is again, but they have no idea of why not to. Personal example: When I was 'bad' as a child while Grandma Millie was watching me, I'd get smacked with the yardstick. I learned not to jump on the bed again, but I didn't know why I shouldn't have in the first place. I felt victimized because Grandma didn't want me practicing flying to Neverland. (Yes, that is truly what 5 year old me thought I was doing.) If she'd told me not to because I might break it, and it cost a lot of money to replace, and people needed to sleep on it when they came to stay, I wouldn't have felt victimized. Instead I would have understood that people needed to sleep on that bed, and they couldn't if I broke it. I never would have jumped on it again not out of fear of being smacked, but because I knew it to be the right thing to do.
There is a lot more to the psychology and child development around punishment/discipline, like the difference between acting up and acting out, but I think I've said enough. For those of you who are parents or aspire to be so, remember that if you want your children to be good because they want to be good, not out of fear of being bad, discipline is the path for you.
As for the dad shooting the daughter's laptop... it was rather melodramatic, and posting it on Facebook was an act designed to humiliate. However, he did explain clearly why he was doing it, and I think in the end he wanted her to learn from the experience. He could have handled it better, but it was not abuse.
Disciplining a child, however, is not.
The etymology of the word punishment is that it comes from the French punissement, which literally means "rough handling".
Discipline's root is disciplina, which is Latin for "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge,".
Children need discipline over punishment because punishment comes without enlightenment. They don't learn anything from their mistake. Sure, they aren't likely to do whatever it is again, but they have no idea of why not to. Personal example: When I was 'bad' as a child while Grandma Millie was watching me, I'd get smacked with the yardstick. I learned not to jump on the bed again, but I didn't know why I shouldn't have in the first place. I felt victimized because Grandma didn't want me practicing flying to Neverland. (Yes, that is truly what 5 year old me thought I was doing.) If she'd told me not to because I might break it, and it cost a lot of money to replace, and people needed to sleep on it when they came to stay, I wouldn't have felt victimized. Instead I would have understood that people needed to sleep on that bed, and they couldn't if I broke it. I never would have jumped on it again not out of fear of being smacked, but because I knew it to be the right thing to do.
There is a lot more to the psychology and child development around punishment/discipline, like the difference between acting up and acting out, but I think I've said enough. For those of you who are parents or aspire to be so, remember that if you want your children to be good because they want to be good, not out of fear of being bad, discipline is the path for you.
As for the dad shooting the daughter's laptop... it was rather melodramatic, and posting it on Facebook was an act designed to humiliate. However, he did explain clearly why he was doing it, and I think in the end he wanted her to learn from the experience. He could have handled it better, but it was not abuse.
Well beating the kid into submission is definitely abuse. Taking out a belt and wailing away at them, yes. Punching or kicking them, yes. However a quick slap (or a few depending on what the kid did) to the butt, hands, or other non essential/vital part of the body, at least in my mind, shouldn't be seen as a form of abuse. Especially if the kid is pushing clearly marked boundaries. The people who say that it is abuse either had really good kids, never had to watch misbehaving kids, or never have had to deal with young kids.Instant K4rma said:
I find a lot of these threads debating what Mr. Jordan did rather silly, especially in light of the post on Facebook he made in response to the Dallas Fox affiliate. Honestly, people are going to be debating this for months and months, when it's already been effectively resolved for him and his family.
I don't think that punishing a child is abuse, but there is a limit. Smacking the kid on the hand is not the same as pulling a gun on them. Physical punishment, or even emotional/mental punishment should not have the potential to injure a child. I've had spankings as a kid and, IMO, there are kids that need spankings who don't get them. However, I do not approve of being overly violent to a kid, even if it's just displaying such violence.
No. I really don't think anything more needs to be said. Children need to be taught right from wrong, if they aren't it ends very badly for everyone involved. I mean I'm not against positive reinforcement, if your kids do the right thing it is better to highlight those things and reward them then punish negative behavior. But that being said there is a big big difference between punishing a child to teach a lesson and maliciously attempting to cause them pain for your own enjoyment. Anyone who says punishing children is abuse is a complete idiot.MasochisticAvenger said:
I'm going to answer this stuff by questioning myself.
Is it ok to give discipline to a child? Yes, when that guy shot his daughters laptop, it was because she believed she could be disrespectful to her parents with no trouble at all.
Do I approve of what that guy did to the laptop? No, I would've sold it personally (then again he was probably pissed so maybe it did seem rational at the time).
Is it ok to HURT a child (this is my opinion!)? Yes and no. I would not consider a spank as bad and it also the ONLY form of child hurting I'd approve of.
I'm not a parent however, but I'm going by the way I was taught.
EDIT: My writing was used for the posts on the first page that I read. Apologies if my writing is not based on most of the conversation on here.
Is it ok to give discipline to a child? Yes, when that guy shot his daughters laptop, it was because she believed she could be disrespectful to her parents with no trouble at all.
Do I approve of what that guy did to the laptop? No, I would've sold it personally (then again he was probably pissed so maybe it did seem rational at the time).
Is it ok to HURT a child (this is my opinion!)? Yes and no. I would not consider a spank as bad and it also the ONLY form of child hurting I'd approve of.
I'm not a parent however, but I'm going by the way I was taught.
EDIT: My writing was used for the posts on the first page that I read. Apologies if my writing is not based on most of the conversation on here.
I vote for more punishment that way there are less running rampant annoying others, As long as the punishment is not over the top adults should be encouraged to discipline their children in this way.
I think more discipline is the answer.
I think more discipline is the answer.
Gotta agree with Electro Dave here, this is pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well. It's actually how I was raised, and I'm fine!Electro Dave said:
The few times I actually did something bad enough to earn a slap on the tush, was the last time I did that bad deed, and my parents never resorted to that as their first option. I was just stubborn little bastard at times xD
The only time it becomes abuse is when it becomes routine, excessive, and done with no reason behind it.
This is dangerous territory. Working in child psychology the topic comes up a lot in dealing with the levels of punishment a child receives and when it is to be considered "abusive".
In my opinion, removing an object or item from the child that is not required for survival (food, clothing, shelter being involved) is a form of negative reassurance. (Negative not being used as something that is "bad", but rather minus the object in question, a - symbol). Excessively berating a child for their actions, lifestyle, home environment or such is. Excessive use of force against the child can also be considered abusive, however for a young child the use of what we once called a "spanking", which was once when used mildly and not an everyday occurrence is now being considered sexual assault and battery.
Personally, I have slapped my child on the bottom when theyve done wrong. I have removed their toys for a period of time, or even for good when they have acted in a negative fashion. A child must learn respect for the adult, for themselves, and for the things around them.
An example of a time of spanking, when my child was attempting to place a metal object into the light fixture. I imedietly removed said item and gave them a firm tap to the rear, informing them of what they had done wrong and of the consequences that could have occured. They associated the mild pain I had delivered to the pain they could have recieved more heavily if they had done the previous action, and have since not touched the fixture or attempted to place anything inside.
Now, constantly slapping someone around, not informing them of the reasons for punishment, leaving marks, having it occur multiple times per day, verbally berating the child, or continuing the spankings past a certain age, that is considered abuse that can further scare a child. I have however seen very few patients who were spanked as children who came to me with thoughts of sexual abuse when they were young by their parents or guardians. I also do not tell parents that a good form of punishment is spanking. A child should be punished with positive and negative reinforcement, and direct physical force should be avoided if possible.
In my opinion, removing an object or item from the child that is not required for survival (food, clothing, shelter being involved) is a form of negative reassurance. (Negative not being used as something that is "bad", but rather minus the object in question, a - symbol). Excessively berating a child for their actions, lifestyle, home environment or such is. Excessive use of force against the child can also be considered abusive, however for a young child the use of what we once called a "spanking", which was once when used mildly and not an everyday occurrence is now being considered sexual assault and battery.
Personally, I have slapped my child on the bottom when theyve done wrong. I have removed their toys for a period of time, or even for good when they have acted in a negative fashion. A child must learn respect for the adult, for themselves, and for the things around them.
An example of a time of spanking, when my child was attempting to place a metal object into the light fixture. I imedietly removed said item and gave them a firm tap to the rear, informing them of what they had done wrong and of the consequences that could have occured. They associated the mild pain I had delivered to the pain they could have recieved more heavily if they had done the previous action, and have since not touched the fixture or attempted to place anything inside.
Now, constantly slapping someone around, not informing them of the reasons for punishment, leaving marks, having it occur multiple times per day, verbally berating the child, or continuing the spankings past a certain age, that is considered abuse that can further scare a child. I have however seen very few patients who were spanked as children who came to me with thoughts of sexual abuse when they were young by their parents or guardians. I also do not tell parents that a good form of punishment is spanking. A child should be punished with positive and negative reinforcement, and direct physical force should be avoided if possible.