Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

ShakyFt Slasher

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Electro Dave said:
No it's not abuse to give them a smacked bottom once in a while if you have exhausted all other alternatives.

But there is obviously a fine line between slapping their bum as a form of discipline and out right abuse.
The way I see it, it should be used as a last resort for the unruly.
I agree with this completely. I was spanked rarely as a kid because my mom was always SERIOUS about her threats, she didn't back down from them no matter what. She wouldn't ask me to do things, she would tell me to do things. Due to this I was a very well behaved child and I respected my mother too.
 

Ziame

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Mortai Gravesend said:
MasochisticAvenger said:
But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.
I got fined in Italy for raising my voice at a kid, because he was being silly.

In Sweden you can't slap your children's bottom as a punishment, or you go to court.

And don't be silly. He didn't mean "beating kid black and blue for letting dog out". Slapping a kid on the bottom for, say, breaking a window is wrong for you? Especially if the kid won't listen to reason?

Noone means getting a clawhammer everytime they refuse to eat dinner. That's what you assumed, and that's what the OP didn't mean. He meant that "bonking a kid with rolled-up newspaper" is now comparable in "crimeness" to beating up wife "black and blue".
 

LordFisheh

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The thing is, there's absolutely no other normal situation where the civilised world would condone hitting people. Hell, even in the army officers aren't allowed to beat their recruits, and that's far closer to the 'behavioural conditioning' of nature than raising a child. So why isn't a child protected from physical assault? Because whether or not you term it assault or abuse or whatever, the fact remains that if you did it to someone on the street, you'd get arrested.

But the weakest members of society are denied protection against that because some people want to use it as a punishment. There are already all kinds of punishments available; why do we need an extra one? It isn't more effective; from a bad parent it can make things worse and from a good one it can do the job perfectly. But almost any method of discipline will fail for a bad parent and succeed for a good one, and adding violence to the mix won't improve those odds. I just don't think it's a good trade to get one extra disciplinary tool at the expense of denying one of society's most fundamental protections to someone simply because they haven't been alive long enough.
 

anthony87

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Man I love these threads just to see all the posts from people who can't seem to differentiate "spanking" from "beating the shit out of".
 

anthony87

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
The subject has been tackled a lot here: Some people think that any touch is abusive.

You wonder how they got brought up.

If a child deserves a smack, they get one. If an adult enjoys that, then he gets locked up. Simples.
I love this comment so much I want to have sex with it. It's always nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks that a child should get a spanking if they deserve one.
 

Blow_Pop

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You know, I was raised pretty much to fear the sound of a belt clearing loops especially if I had done something wrong. And boy, did I sure learn my lesson to not do whatever I did. Also the banishment to my room and all my books and toys taken away. And standing in the corner. And soap on my tongue for cussing. Though that last took a bit to sink in as a child. And I don't consider any of that abuse. I consider it being an actual parent. If I acted up in a restaurant my arse got taken outside and beat and then I'd have to come back in and apologise for causing a scene and proceed to sit on my arse which was hurting badly and behave the rest of the night. I've also had to cut my own switch at my grandparents house. Parents these days aren't raising their kids or even being parents any more. Yes lets think of the children. Do we want a bunch of out of control kids running around and causing trouble or do we want kids who are behaved and not causing trouble?

I'm not against raising my kids how my parents raised me if I ever have any. I am against any one who feels their child is a punching bag though. There is a fine line between discipline and abuse. Discipline I'm all for. Abuse no.
 

anthony87

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Bhaalspawn said:
My mother was big on hitting me and my siblings as a child. It worked until she took it to far. By that I mean she belted me across the face, and I belted her back twice as hard. She never hit any of us again.

Hitting your child in any sense is abuse. Plain and simple. It's not designed to teach them right from wrong, it's designed to instill fear of future spankings and humiliate them at the same time. I'm terrified of the people in this thread who still think that's okay. This kind of thing died out in civilized society 15 years ago.

It must suck that parents can't scare and bully their children into behaving anymore, and now they actually have to think rationally.
See what we have here is a classic example of someone not being able to tell the difference between "hitting" and "spanking". What you describe with the belt and all that. That's hitting..and some proper fucked up shit too.

What we're talking about when we say spanking is akin to a light tap on the ass. More shock than pain. It's not done to hurt anyone, it's not done to instil fear or anything like that. It's done to say "You've done something bad, now this is happening".

Hell it surprises me that people seem to think locking a child in a room on its own is worse than spanking.
 

Treblaine

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MasochisticAvenger said:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?
Punishing by REMOVING nice privileges is generally appropriate.

Punishing by INFLICTING pain and suffering is rarely appropriate.

For example, starving a child may be abuse. But giving them nutritious food but denying them a tasty dessert because they were bad would be a non-abusive punishment.

Similarly, it is not exactly pain/suffering to require a child to do very reasonable chores for their age like clean up after themselves or that they in some way get on the employment ladder. A 15 year old should be able to operate a washing machine and clean their own clothes or empty a dish washer. An 8 year old should be able to put their toys away when they are finished with them.

Parents are required to keep their children alive and functional so fed, clothed, housed and educated but treats are entirely conditional on the kids following the rules. You can raise kids by carrot, no need for stick.
 

Erttheking

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For the record, the laptop incident was not abuse, he payed for it, it was his property. Punishment CAN be an abuse, but it isn't inheriently. It's mainly about how extreme it is and contex, being spanked two or three times isn't really abuse (unless it's done chronically for no reason) having your fingers broken is.
 

DjinnFor

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Most people don't realize it, but there few cases in which punishment of children

A. Is necessary, and
B. Works in the way you intend
C. Is used in an appropriate way for an appropriate reason

Given, then, that punishment is in essence an attempt to harm the other person, I would say that almost all punishment of children and by extension young adults is abuse.

A lot of the misconception about how children are raised come from the following:

Parents use inane parenting strategies on young children who are ages 4-12, live through an excruciatingly difficult half-decade from 13-18, and then are quite surprised when the children come back from college or university with a much dramatic change in their personality and habits.

People in general believe that there is some correlation between terrible parenting strategies at a young age and proper behavior as an adult, but there is not. The real behavior change occurs when the parent and child are as far removed from each other as they have ever been.

What happens is that the child goes out into the real world, faces real-world consequences for their behavior, and learns essentially by necessity in 4 years what 14 years of parenting never could. The exact same thing can be said about school, by the way.
 

Zen Toombs

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Punishing a kid is not abuse.

Abusing a child is abuse though.

[small]tautological toombs is tautological[/small]
 

Treblaine

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LordFisheh said:
The thing is, there's absolutely no other normal situation where the civilised world would condone hitting people.
I presume you mean in a case of person in higher authority hitting is forbidden, the reality is people are often legally and ethically permitted to hit other people:

-Boxing and other martial arts tournaments
-Military or law-enforcement training for close combat
-Self-defence situations
-Sado-Masocistic sex games
-To stop an escaping prisoner

Loads and loads of examples where people are allowed to hit each other but almost always it is in cases where the person permitted to hit is on equal authority or lower influence. Such as if someone is victim of a criminal assault they are permitted to strike back till they have the upper hand. In military training and Martial arts the combatants are of generally equal level. Even sex play of "top and bottom" roles they are both reciprocating, playing to a rule book and doing what they want able to end it the moment they don't want it any more.

But a parent beating their child, or a corporal beating a new recruit; there you have a clear case where power and violence makes a far too dangerous combination with such a likelihood for abuse.

The only odd one is how many jurisdictions (including international criminal law) recognises the right for state authorities to strike and even shoot unarmed prisoners who are fleeing even though they don't pose any direct threat. That's just an established principal as many times only the threat of being immediately shot can keep a large group of prisoners from escaping. Imagine in war a surrounded platoon formally surrenders by laying down their arms, now what stops them all just running off? To stop them non-lethally you'd need 2 to 4 soldiers to retain one POW, that is such a waste of man-power no army would ever want to accept a surrender. In practice prisoners are held under the threat that those who flee will be shot even though they are unarmed.

And this is applied in peacetime prisons for criminals as well, often the only way to prevent a jail break is with firearms as almost always there are usually FAR more prisoners than guards in a prison so unlike day-to-day law enforcement they cannot rely on strength of numbers and co-operative locals to capture those who must be lawfully detained.

You can also argue semantics that if someone has passed out from a heart attack you can perform chest compressions that would be assault otherwise but considering the life saving intent it hardly qualifies as the normal definition of hitting which is intent to cause harm.
 

Substitute Troll

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It's not abuse -.- But some people seem to think that a proper punishment is spanking or something similar. That's just wrong. If you have to lay your hand on a child to raise them, you're just a bad parent.
 

Wintermoot

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depends on it as long as the child in question isn't wounded. (IE black eye,broken bones,etc.)
As punishment my parents put me under a cold shower once.
 

anthony87

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Substitute Troll said:
It's not abuse -.- But some people seem to think that a proper punishment is spanking or something similar. That's just wrong. If you have to lay your hand on a child to raise them, you're just a bad parent.
Well then what would you recommend? Please, relay your wisdom to all the "bad parents" of the world.
 

targren

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Mortai Gravesend said:
But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.
If he's talking about the thread I think he is, then you must have missed it. The putz who started THAT thread actually posted a list of warning signs of domestic/spousal abuse and tried to use that to equate insisting that the little bint get a job instead of an allowance was "abuse". I shit you not. For trashing her laptop. Yeah.

Sorry dude, OP is right. The dumbfuckery over this whole thing would be amusing if it wasn't so depressing.