Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

[Deathmageddon]

I think Tommy Jordan was totally justified. From what I've read, he bought her the laptop and purchased the necessary upgrades, and his daughter turned around and threw it in his face (figuratively) by posting a very disrespectful rant on Facebook. CPS even said that they were very comfortable with him as a parent. Shooting her computer was actually very creative. Can't spank a 15-year old, can you? Bravo, sir.

 

[anthony87]

depends on it as long as the child in question isn't wounded. (IE black eye,broken bones,etc.)
As punishment my parents put me under a cold shower once.

See to me that's worse than spanking. I tend to think of things like locking kids up in their bedrooms or putting them under a cold shower to be bad psychologically, perhaps more damaging in the long term whereas a spank is short, sweet and to the point.

Don't get the wrong idea now, I'm not saying your were raised or punished badly or anything like that. I'm just saying I'd spank a child sooner than give him the whole cold shower shtick.

I agree with you on the whole "wounded" thing. Anything that's full on physical injury and you've crossed the line from punishing a kid to hitting them.

 

[ABLb0y]

Depends on how far you go. If you, say, ground them, that's ok. But if you do something that causes serious physical or emotional pain (I remember a case a while back about a woman who made her son drink tabasco sauce and take a freezing shower) then it's abuse.

 

[deshorty]

Depends on the punishment. Like for instance, my dad thought I was playing too much xbox, so he took the controllers away and I had to work my ass off to get them back. I hated it, but it wasn't abuse. In my mind it is only abuse when physical violence takes place upon the kid.

 

[platinawolf]

Depends on the culture and (less importantly) the laws. If all kids gets punished it is norm and thus fine. If only one child gets punished then the kid takes extra damage as it is separate from the norm.

 

[Substitute Troll]

It's not abuse -.- But some people seem to think that a proper punishment is spanking or something similar. That's just wrong. If you have to lay your hand on a child to raise them, you're just a bad parent.

Well then what would you recommend? Please, relay your wisdom to all the "bad parents" of the world.

Talking to your kids and making them understand what they did, why it was wrong, how it makes other's feel. Try to show an emotion other than anger. Anger just multiplies itself, ever seen someone get happier when their parents get angry (unless they have some dysfunction in their relationship)? Keeping your cool when your kid is jumping around like a bunny on drugs is difficult, but the outcome is better than the alternative. Plus, if you use pain as an educational technique (yes, punishing your child is supposed to be educational) then what do you think your kid will learn from that? It might be that your kid will start thinking along the lines of: causing pain=profit.

 

[Aprilgold]

My opinion: Any form of violence as punishment for kids is abuse (that includes spanked bottoms) scientifically it doesn't work like people think it will either so...

I agree with the Pony Lover here... Ok I agree with Matts on this but their avatar is just so adorable I had to point it out.

uuhhhh no its considered good parenting

the severity however, is what makes or doesnt make it abuse

See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.

I didnt watch the Video...but yeah put that way it is a little concerning

I cant comment either way, I dont know the situation personally

I don't think its good parenting to use a gun to destroy ones own personal equipment, since that costs a lot for just the ammo plus wasted money on the object itself. I agree, its a little bit more concerning because of the reasons behind it. I'm just worried that if she does this again, what will he resort to then?

ANYWAYS, what I was going to say before I quote-side-tracked. OH RIGHT! Violence should be a very last resort for the most extreme punishment, under the most extreme circumstances. It should never be the first line of response, it should be when your kid is being such a dick that its starting to physically harm others. Spanking doesn't work as well as people think it does, and, if anything hurts the parent-child relationship more then what the child has done beforehand.

 

[Final First]

Although I agree with you to a degree, you must remember your foot can be a lethal weapon too, so the same could be said about stomping on it with that logic. Also, if parents would be more strict and did this (assuming that it worked for this particular father), there is a possibility of less and less rebellious teens. Though everyone shooting laptops might be a problem, it shouldn't be done all the time I have to admit.

Stomping isn't crafted to be a lethal weapon, however. A gun is - a gun's only use is as a weapon, your foot is not.

Also, rebellion isn't inherently bad. Quenching all liberality isn't healthy for anyone - it's how new ideas are formed. Of course, this kind of petty rebellion is silly, but it's both completely normal and sets a foundation for later, perhaps more mature rebellion.

I agree completely. The petty rebellion is a minor problem, but rebellion by having different ideas and ideologies from one's parents isn't bad.

 

[GirDraconis]

I would leave it up to the parents unless the health of the child is put in some obvious danger and tell anybody else to mind their damn business.

This. I thoroughly enjoyed watching that man shoot his daughter's laptop. If she's going to use it to post hateful comments about her parents on Facebook, she doesn't deserve to have it. So what if she was embarrassed? She should be for behaving the way she did in the first place. That dad did an amazing job. I would have had some concerns had it just been a video of him shooting her laptop, but it wasn't. He had a perfectly valid reason for doing that.

The one thing I find interesting is that everybody seems to be crying about that poor... little... girl... What about the father? Seeing those words that his daughter wrote must've hurt him terribly. Why doesn't anybody care about him?

 

[waj9876]

Honestly, I believe it depends on their age. I was brought up on the philosophy of "If you knew it was wrong and were fully capable of stopping it but didn't, you get spanked." It worked too. I tried to avoid doing the wrong thing. And then as I got older, I got spanked less, as it didn't effect me as much. It was at that point that taking away my Playstation 1 and or 2 and Nintendo 64 for a while was enough.

I don't believe what happened to me was abuse. I've done some things where I'm surprised I wasn't beat bloody honestly. I once did something so bad, it just made my parents and grandparents cry. They didn't touch me for it, not once. Though they didn't even NEED to. That's what I think it boils down to. "Does this child deserve a spanking?" If the answer is no, don't do it. If it's yes, do it. Just not excessively.

Anyone else notice a trend? As soon as spankings became a controversial subject, a whole generation of little shits who could get away with anything grow up thinking that still applies when they are adults. I like to call this group 80% of 4chan. (/x/ SEEMS to be okay at least.)

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

Except the parent beating the child. Uhm.

OT: Some punishing is, but not all. Shooting a laptop isn't abuse, it's just silly, and he shouldn't be allowed to wield a gun.

No, spanking a child is not "beating them".

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

because generally speaking it doesn't leave scars like in the photo I showed you.

So if something isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave scars, it's not abuse?

Using a deadly weapon to fire a laptop is bad use. A gun is a last resort, not a toy to be used at will.

When the gun is being fired at a person (or anywhere it has a reasonable chance of hitting someone) then yes, it should be a last resort. This is so that people are not hurt or killed unnecessarily. He was target shooting. I'm not sure the idea of "last resort" applies in that situation.

no, there are many forms of abuse, but spanking generally isn't one of them.

 

[matts]

See, I disagree there. Violence against a kid shouldn't be any resort at all (unless the kid in question is about to murder someone or something).
Where I live it is illegal...
Spanking a kid sends you to jail if you are detected.

Also, thanks about the avatar, I agree Luna is the most adorable of all the Ponies. Related quote > "I ask thou to CHECK EM for the fun has been DOUBLED!"

 

[BrassButtons]

no, there are many forms of abuse, but spanking generally isn't one of them.

So something that isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave a scar can still be abusive, but spanking isn't abusive because it isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave a scar?

 

[SilentCom]

Is abusing a kid considered punishment? No. The two are not the same.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

because generally speaking it doesn't leave scars like in the photo I showed you.

So if something isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave scars, it's not abuse?

Using a deadly weapon to fire a laptop is bad use. A gun is a last resort, not a toy to be used at will.

When the gun is being fired at a person (or anywhere it has a reasonable chance of hitting someone) then yes, it should be a last resort. This is so that people are not hurt or killed unnecessarily. He was target shooting. I'm not sure the idea of "last resort" applies in that situation.

no, there are many forms of abuse, but spanking generally isn't one of them.

How is hitting a child multiple times, causing physical pain, not abuse? How is beating their ass different than just beating them?

Where you are focusing physical contact is different, and pain=/=abuse 100% of the time. As long as the pain can be proven to not be excessive(like breaking the skin or causing bruises), it is not abuse.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

no, there are many forms of abuse, but spanking generally isn't one of them.

So something that isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave a scar can still be abusive, but spanking isn't abusive because it isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave a scar?

If you really want to know, take a look here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#United_States].

 

[BrassButtons]

If you really want to know, take a look here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#United_States].

If you were only interested in whether spanking is legally abuse (in the United States) then why didn't you make that argument from the start, instead of comparing the amount of harm caused by spanking to that caused by other actions?

And since other countries do define spanking as abusive, does that mean that an action is only abusive if the local government says so, regardless of whether the child is harmed or not?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If you really want to know, take a look here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#United_States].

If you were only interested in whether spanking is legally abuse (in the United States) then why didn't you make that argument from the start, instead of comparing the amount of harm caused by spanking to that caused by other actions?

And since other countries do define spanking as abusive, does that mean that an action is only abusive if the local government says so, regardless of whether the child is harmed or not?

Legal is one of the main reasons I feel the way I do, but it wasn't the only reason. As I brought up before, the lack of scaring and permanent bruising were also reasons why I felt it was abuse. As for other countries, to be honest, their laws don't hold influence on my opinion on spanking anymore than their laws have influence on my opinion on hate speech.

 

[Signa]

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it.

Uh, proven? Wanna back that up there bud? I probably wouldn't believe you anyway because of personal experience, but I'd like to know who is making such outrageous claims.

We talked about it in both my Psych and Sociology courses. These are a couple of the articles that were cited:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-16/health/spanking.children.parenting_1_spanked-new-study-author-and-research-scientist?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm

Oh, toddlers.

There's a couple things wrong with the context of this study:

1. It only involves toddlers (ages 1-3).
2. It only involves low income families on the assumption that they spank more often.

I agree that you shouldn't spank a toddler, but kids aged 5-10 aren't nearly as fragile as you think.

Ahh, and there lies our misunderstanding. I've been arguing against toddler spanking. As for spanking younger kids (ages 5-10), I'm still dubious on the subject, but I agree that they aren't as fragile (mentally and physically) as a toddler.

Thanks for that. I told you that I was going to be suborn about this study, but I concede. Kids that young are certainly a different matter, and I would question how enriching a low-income environment would be for a kid generally speaking. I was expecting some agenda-driven study trying to tell everyone how they are bad parents when their kids are sweet, innocent angels. Trust me, in my family, we are genetically pre-disposed to be demons.

Of course I was spanked when I was a rambunctious ADHD child, and not only do I remember deserving my spankings, but the thought of the punishment kept me out of trouble a lot more than my parents realized (it's not like I went up to them and said, "Mommy, I was going to do something naughty, but I didn't because I didn't want a spanking!"). Then in the case of my younger ADHD brother, I smacked him around when he was disrespectful or disobedient, and while that wasn't much of a proper spanking as I prefer to envision them, he did display more affection with me than anyone else in the family, including my overly compassionate mom.

Certainly in my family's case, kids are like dogs that need to be properly broken. That little brother of mine was hardly spanked when he deserved it (failed to learn consequences), and now he's hardly able to make it to his 8th grade classes, let alone do homework or get a passing grade. My two sisters almost always behaved and they're doing fine (no spankings needed). As for me, I graduated high school 10 years ago with a 3.3 and I'm probably one of the best people you'd meet. I honestly can't say for sure if NOT being spanked would have changed anything, but I don't regret those moments one little bit. I know I learned respect and consequences at some point in my life, and I learned them well.