Is Rap Music Really Music?
- Thread starter DiMono
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Why did this thread even need to go past this one original post? Why did The thread hijack that has occurred was the best thing that could happen in here.DiMono said:
(edit: I was going to say something snarky like "CONGRATS ON HAVING AN OPINION TC" or something asinine like "YOUR COOKIE IS IN THE MAIL" but I didnt think it would lead to any productive discussion. SO instead I'm just going back to listening to Jay Dee beats. http-> www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM4suco50wI enjoy!)
So instead you said something useless like "Why did this thread even need to go past this one original post". You say you didn't want to make a post that wouldn't lead to productive discussion, but here you are having done just that anyway.Spookimitsu said:
OT: Let's talk about how rap has evolved from the '80s or so to today. I think my opinion's been made pretty clear on this already, what do the rest of you think about it?
I'm sorry, what?!?DiMono said:
mu·sic
?noun
1.
an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2.
the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.
3.
musical work or compositions for singing or playing.
4.
the written or printed score of a musical composition.
5.
such scores collectively.
6.
any sweet, pleasing, or harmonious sounds or sound: the music of the waves.
7.
appreciation of or responsiveness to musical sounds or harmonies: Music was in his very soul.
Rap goes into several of these definitions. Rap can have melodies, scores etc etc. You are an elitist snobby knobhead. I loath Metal, but even thatI consider to be barely music.
Now, I'm not sure if this has been covered but anyways.DiMono said:
Just because the melody doesn't come from the vocals doesn't mean that there isn't a melody. The simple fact that Hip Hop songs are not one single tone indicates that there is some kind of melodic variation.
Now, I could list the "Elements of music" and talk about how Hip Hop incorporates them all, and then post a bunch of Hip Hop songs, but neither of us have time for that.
As i read through the various arguments presented within this topic and the opinions of people whom state that most rap is shit i find myself slightly sickened. It's one thing to state that you do not like hip-hop rap and rmb but it's another to say that it is shit and 99.9% is garbage and thus not worth the time to make it. It is like i have stated before an expression of what people are subject to in their daily lives. Gangsta rap evolved as a sub-genre of of the hip-hop community just a metalcore is not all that heavy metal has to present gangsta rap is not all that rap has to present. when i read that gangsta rap is only about shooting bitches and getting rich it makes me want to vomit out of pity mostly. I listen to rock, rap,classical,blues,jazz, and Indian music and each one presents some thing different that i come specifically to listen to. I don't not compare one by the standards of another because if i were to do that of course i they would not stand on equal footing with one another. It is clear to me here people want emotional content from their music and all music(yes rap is music) presents that. now is rap presenting an emotion and or subject matter you want to deal with probably not but this is not the fault of the artist it's yours for not being open to the concepts presented in each song.
Lets take Rapper Notorious B.I.G. as an example because I'm sure everyone knows who he is and can identify who he is.Time magazine wrote Wallace(B.I.G.) rapped with an ability to "make multi-syllabic rhymes sound... smooth". Allmusic wrote that the success of Ready to Die is "mostly due to Wallace's skill as a storyteller"On Life After Death Wallace notably demonstrated this skill on "I Got a Story to Tell" telling a story as a rap for the first half of the song and then as a story "for his boys" in conversation form. he was one of the most popular gangsta rappers of all time and the reason he rapped about the content he did was because he lived that life style. Before he rapped he sold drugs and committed the crimes described in his songs. His music was an expression of his life his art. He help a trend reach epic portions gangstas had become what people wanted to hear about because they spoke about the lives of the people whom lived in their neighborhoods. Rap is not the way it is because rappers want to be derogatory and amoral. It is the way it is because of the sociology of the neighborhoods which create them.
So people should not come to the table hoping to find the heavy metal lyrics and performance style that is generally associated with masculinity and machismo, but some thing different. They should listen to the topic the rapper is presenting in their song and then decide if the topic is palatable to them or not. If it is not then don't listen to the that rapper but don't assume ever rapper talks about the same thing every single song. The rappers is conveying a story about the ghetto life style. The subject matter is not for every one but it is no less valid then the subject matter presented by by bands such as Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, Lead Zeppelin, or The Ramones. I seriously doubt anyone here if they like rap or not has listened to most of the rap available so to make such a claim is absolutely asinine. Oh I almost forgot though I'm sure every one here thinks pop is sad and terrible i would like to mention that pop means popular music...this would imply that most people like it. I know every one here is just so nonconformist and against the grain that every pop song fills them with disgust but think about it with out pop there would be no what ever it is you are listening to. For from what ever music is popular at the time comes the sub-genres and distantly related music that you listen to.
Oh and lastly
Hip hop-rap music was both influenced by disco and a backlash against it. According to Kurtis Blow, the early days of hip hop were characterized by divisions between fans and detractors of disco music. Hip hop had largely emerged as "a direct response to the watered down, Europeanised, disco music that permeated the airwaves", and the earliest hip hop was mainly based on hard funk loops. However, by 1979, disco instrumental loops/tracks had become the basis of much hip hop music. This genre got the name of "disco rap". Ironically, hip hop music was also a proponent in the eventual decline in disco popularity.
it began as a genre of music it can suddenly not be music on some ones whim...and with this i hope to say just because you are not personally acquainted with gangsta life style it does not mean that you can degrade their struggles and trails. The cushiony life style you know is not present through out world and some people do struggle daily to survive in a harsh world. Rap is like an escape from that the acquisition fame, money, and women is some thing desired in the community because it is some thing deigned to the vast majority. When a rapper talks about busting slugs they are giving an account of what it takes to survive in a world where you are expected to be in jail or dead by 25. But hey ignore me i mean i could not possible know what I'm talking about.
Lets take Rapper Notorious B.I.G. as an example because I'm sure everyone knows who he is and can identify who he is.Time magazine wrote Wallace(B.I.G.) rapped with an ability to "make multi-syllabic rhymes sound... smooth". Allmusic wrote that the success of Ready to Die is "mostly due to Wallace's skill as a storyteller"On Life After Death Wallace notably demonstrated this skill on "I Got a Story to Tell" telling a story as a rap for the first half of the song and then as a story "for his boys" in conversation form. he was one of the most popular gangsta rappers of all time and the reason he rapped about the content he did was because he lived that life style. Before he rapped he sold drugs and committed the crimes described in his songs. His music was an expression of his life his art. He help a trend reach epic portions gangstas had become what people wanted to hear about because they spoke about the lives of the people whom lived in their neighborhoods. Rap is not the way it is because rappers want to be derogatory and amoral. It is the way it is because of the sociology of the neighborhoods which create them.
So people should not come to the table hoping to find the heavy metal lyrics and performance style that is generally associated with masculinity and machismo, but some thing different. They should listen to the topic the rapper is presenting in their song and then decide if the topic is palatable to them or not. If it is not then don't listen to the that rapper but don't assume ever rapper talks about the same thing every single song. The rappers is conveying a story about the ghetto life style. The subject matter is not for every one but it is no less valid then the subject matter presented by by bands such as Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, Lead Zeppelin, or The Ramones. I seriously doubt anyone here if they like rap or not has listened to most of the rap available so to make such a claim is absolutely asinine. Oh I almost forgot though I'm sure every one here thinks pop is sad and terrible i would like to mention that pop means popular music...this would imply that most people like it. I know every one here is just so nonconformist and against the grain that every pop song fills them with disgust but think about it with out pop there would be no what ever it is you are listening to. For from what ever music is popular at the time comes the sub-genres and distantly related music that you listen to.
Oh and lastly
Hip hop-rap music was both influenced by disco and a backlash against it. According to Kurtis Blow, the early days of hip hop were characterized by divisions between fans and detractors of disco music. Hip hop had largely emerged as "a direct response to the watered down, Europeanised, disco music that permeated the airwaves", and the earliest hip hop was mainly based on hard funk loops. However, by 1979, disco instrumental loops/tracks had become the basis of much hip hop music. This genre got the name of "disco rap". Ironically, hip hop music was also a proponent in the eventual decline in disco popularity.
it began as a genre of music it can suddenly not be music on some ones whim...and with this i hope to say just because you are not personally acquainted with gangsta life style it does not mean that you can degrade their struggles and trails. The cushiony life style you know is not present through out world and some people do struggle daily to survive in a harsh world. Rap is like an escape from that the acquisition fame, money, and women is some thing desired in the community because it is some thing deigned to the vast majority. When a rapper talks about busting slugs they are giving an account of what it takes to survive in a world where you are expected to be in jail or dead by 25. But hey ignore me i mean i could not possible know what I'm talking about.
Yes it is a form of music, not a music I like I admit but music nonetheless. I don't mind and sometimes like the background music, it's just the rapping which I don't like at all.
It's just the lyrics, the generic sound and the image which rappers have which I don't like.AvitaDeva said:
Well when you say that i have to ask you have you listened to ever rapper out there...becuase not every rapper talks about the same thing.Flamezdudes said:
Like
Lupe Fiasco,flobots, Nas, and D12
generic sound implies that you listen to three rappers and thus believe they all sound the same which is not a fair assessment.
In France there are more and more rap groups that incite Hate speechs in their lyrics, which makes me shiver, when you get to understand what they say:DiMono said:
Extracts of Mauvais Ril:
"Les colons nous l'ont mis profond.
A l'envers on va leur faire,
On est venu récupérer notre dû
Dans vos rues on va faire couler votre pu
Attends toi à plus d'un attentat
Ici, en France, loin des ambiances "pétard"
14 juillet Microphone ouvert et nos actions s'amorcent féroces,
AL.I., Booba, Lunatic, Hauts de seine, on te saigne."
Extracts of "Guerre/Jihad" :
"on repartira avec leur argent, leur sang et leurs pes-sa(sapes = cloths)
La France n'est pas territoire neutre.
Mes troupes sont mobilisées
Ils ont leurs paradis fiscaux
Faut qu'on impose nos lieux de non-droits
Et si c'est ça qu'ils veulent on va s'armer et s'entourer d'Khos"
this is as repulsive as it can get...
In the past, we censored songs from some French artists (Ferrat, Vian ...) for far less than that.
btw, recently i've heard 153 members of the National Assembly, have asked several months ago, to the Minister of Justice - so far unsuccessfully - that legal prosecutions be initiated against a few rap groups who, in songs that hum the suburbs, that are selling well at stores like FNAC, insult seriously our country, and threaten our countrymen in a way that is totally unacceptable. Members of these groups are foreign or of foreign origin. They were welcomed in our country and they are now making a fortune selling their insanities. We can not accept, and no government in the world should accept, such actions.
personally speaking, i do like to listen to rappers like NWA, Warren G, Ice-T, WuTangClan, among others...
Well, many people here have already said what I wanted to say, so I'll just say this: When you get really traditional, to third-world country folk music, to be more specific, check this youtube link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtAG3CCQvfk&feature=&p=2B5C219877321C64&index=0&playnext=1
There is no pitch or melody whatsoever. If you think that is music, that should answer your question. It certianly couldn't hold my attention for long, but those women seem to have no trouble dancing to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtAG3CCQvfk&feature=&p=2B5C219877321C64&index=0&playnext=1
There is no pitch or melody whatsoever. If you think that is music, that should answer your question. It certianly couldn't hold my attention for long, but those women seem to have no trouble dancing to it.
Yep. There's nothing quite like John Cage. I'm listening to him right now at work without earphones.Rachel McCall said:
Unfortunately, yes. Not good music, but in a technical sense, it is.
Now, I don't like rap (except for MC Lars and maybe Sage Francis), I just want to get that out there. I feel like most rap is just the same recycled drum and bass beats, auto-tuned vocals, and talkin' about bitches, hoes, bitchy hoes, and smoking weed or drinking something. I don't see what people see in these rappers. I feel like if I was ever forced to add rap to my iTunes, I would probably put older stuff on. That seemed to be about... something.
Not trying to flame or troll, just my opinion.
Now, I don't like rap (except for MC Lars and maybe Sage Francis), I just want to get that out there. I feel like most rap is just the same recycled drum and bass beats, auto-tuned vocals, and talkin' about bitches, hoes, bitchy hoes, and smoking weed or drinking something. I don't see what people see in these rappers. I feel like if I was ever forced to add rap to my iTunes, I would probably put older stuff on. That seemed to be about... something.
Not trying to flame or troll, just my opinion.
You sound like someone I've been waiting to meet for a long time. As many have stated already, chances are I'll only find crummy rap if I rely on mainstream sources, but I don't know anyone who can recommend music I'd like. I don't take well to ghetto culture, so that does limit my options, but with that in mind, do you know any artists I might enjoy hearing?AvitaDeva said:
OK, so I'm a little new here to this thread, but thought I'd chime in anyways.
There is a genre of poetry called Free Verse, which exists as a form of poetry entirely without meter, musical pattern, or rhyme. For examples, check out some works by e.e. cummings and Walt Whitman.
Free verse exists an artistic precedent... the ability to look at something and say 'this is certainly like no other poetry that existed before, but still carries artistic merit.'
To most detractors who take issue with the musicality, or occasional lack of rhyming structure in rap, I would say that music doesn't have to rhyme, sound good, and (most importantly) you don't have to understand it. Hell, I still have no idea what Yellow Submarine means. It all exists as a musical form of Free Verse.
Rap, as a genre, does have rules and conventions, which serve to make it distinct from other genres. You know a rap song when you hear one, even if you don't have a liking for the genre as a whole, you inherently know what rap is. It exists as a musical genre, same as any other. Sure, some of it sucks, but not all punk, country, metal, classical, or pop music is good either.
I was also going to try shoehorning Bill Hick's stellar Arizona Bay album as the idea that music doesn't need to rhyme or sound good, but I can't think of a decent segue. So there it is.
There is a genre of poetry called Free Verse, which exists as a form of poetry entirely without meter, musical pattern, or rhyme. For examples, check out some works by e.e. cummings and Walt Whitman.
Free verse exists an artistic precedent... the ability to look at something and say 'this is certainly like no other poetry that existed before, but still carries artistic merit.'
To most detractors who take issue with the musicality, or occasional lack of rhyming structure in rap, I would say that music doesn't have to rhyme, sound good, and (most importantly) you don't have to understand it. Hell, I still have no idea what Yellow Submarine means. It all exists as a musical form of Free Verse.
Rap, as a genre, does have rules and conventions, which serve to make it distinct from other genres. You know a rap song when you hear one, even if you don't have a liking for the genre as a whole, you inherently know what rap is. It exists as a musical genre, same as any other. Sure, some of it sucks, but not all punk, country, metal, classical, or pop music is good either.
I was also going to try shoehorning Bill Hick's stellar Arizona Bay album as the idea that music doesn't need to rhyme or sound good, but I can't think of a decent segue. So there it is.