Is Sony done with Video Games?

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GonzoGamer

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I loved my ps2 but it seems that since they've been going downhill since the PSP.
The PSP & PS3 (in my personal experience) were decent pieces of hardware that got really poor support. So poor in fact that I didn't get a Vita and don't see myself getting a PS4 when that time comes.
They need to spend more time helping the consumer get more out of the hardware and coaxing third parties (and even themselves) to expand on features and quality.
I hope they break their downward momentum but they seem intent on driving the playstation brand into the ground.
 

BrotherRool

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
- The Wii U may not be as underpowered as everyone makes out. While people have torn the thing apart to look inside, a lot of the actual workings of the specs are still a complete mystery. The CPU is certainly clocked at a lower speed than expected, but it also is apparently quite a bit more modern in design than the CPUs in either the PS360. More importantly, it has far more eDRAM than either console (32mb) and a GP-GPU (a GPU which can also pull double duty and do CPU tasks, such as physics) several generations ahead of the current gen. We've not seen any real visual upgrade yet, for the same reason most 360 launch games didn't look that much better than Xbox ones (or sometimes even worse). Developers need time to get to grips with the architecture. We're already starting to see games like Nano Assault Neo and Trine 2: Director's Cut, which are visually astounding. Give it a year or two, and developers will be able to start showing some of the Wii U's muscle.

- Conversely, don't be surprised if Sony starts reigning in the hardware specs for the next gen. For the last 8 years or so, they've consistently tried to win over gamers by cramming as much tech into their consoles as possible, and it hasn't worked. The PS3 is about level with the 360, but the PSP and the Vita flopped compared to the competition. Even worse, they cost Sony a bunch of money in hardware losses. I would be very surprised if Sony didn't start try to cut back on the cutting edge hardware next time round, and go back to a business approach more reminiscent of the PS2 and PS1. The latest rumour is that they're basing the design off an AMD A10 APU, an all in one design that combines CPU and GPU, not too dissimilar from the Wii U's multi-chip module. Tellingly, the A10 APU is technology that's several years old now, and pretty affordable. If Sony does go with the A10 architecture, the PS4 will be a step up, but it won't be the cutting edge machine everyone thinks it will.
This is also new information for me, I thought the general opinion was that it was a half step. I didn't imagine Sony would try and go for a powerhouse this time (I really hope they don't) and it's a strange situation where I imagine Sony and Microsoft are both basically going to just try and copy the other one, but I'd thought that even an Xbox to 360 sort of advancement would leave the Wii U behind. But if that's not true and I've got your opinion which seems to have some specifics to throw doubt versus a baseless general assumption, then it would leave the market in an interesting place. I can't believe devs would really get behind the Wii U controller (unless the Wii U manages to curbstomp both other consoles). You can't design a game for one control scheme on two consoles and add a design for second and have that design really utilise the strengths. And I'm not convinced it brings enough strengths to make the Wii U a much more favourable purchase than equal power MSony consoles. In fact I imagine most people would be a bit put off leaving the control schemes they know (and however it actually is, the Wii U controllers, doesn't look as comfortable to hold. And the 360 Halo fanbase is dedicated. Their are plenty of people who will buy the next console for that one game. In that situation I guess people would just tend to buy and use classic controllers as default.

Still I would be surprised, even with the revelation that the Wii U is more powerful than people think, if it were on equal footing with the others. The controller looks expensive to manufacture and providing Sony/MS don't try to force a Kinect/Wand thing down our throats they're going to use that to either make much cheaper consoles than the Wii U or more advanced consoles. Isn't there quite a lot of work just getting the tech power in the system to get the controller to run? But maybe they won't be advanced enough to leave the Wii U in the dust and people just won't bother using that extra power. I mean consoles are way behind PCs at the moment, but people aren't bothered and potentially the same thing could happen with the Wii U. It's good they released early though, if all three came out at the same time I think the strangeness of the controller would be enough to place it in other markets (and it will still probably absolutely corner the casual market, if not as strongly as the Wii) but with an established base it would be attractive to take the time porting

You could make the argument for Call Of Duty, but I would argue that Call Of Duty is a casual game hiding in hardcore clothing. A large part of COD's audience is people who simply play Call Of Duty for the multiplayer, and don't really play anything else. I know several people like this myself- surprisingly older people who enjoy playing a few deathmatches online, but otherwise tend to avoid gaming. The fact that COD's sales numbers are so astronomically huge, while numbers for other 'core' games are more or less the same as 8 years ago, suggests to me that COD is the exception, rather than the norm. If you remove COD from the equation, you're left with an industry that is seeing about the same level of interest as last generation. Each generation, the pie gets cut up into different slices, but I don't think the pie is really getting any bigger.

And of course, it's worth bearing in mind that development costs for games have gone up exponentially since the last generation. While games aren't selling much more, they're costing more to produce. Hence why we're seeing such a focus on bland, homgenous sequels...
I'm still not completely convinced by this, because the number of games sold this generation compared to last actually went up when comparing the top 50 to the top 100, which suggests there's other factors than one franchise. But considering it switches places later on, I'm wondering if whats happened is that we've lost genres and studios. The mediocre and niche ones couldn't cut it in the economic downturn and rising development expenses, so we like games the same amount, but we have less games to choose on and focus on the top 100/200 more compared to the last generation which was really diverse, which I guess agrees with your last paragraph

The CoD casual thing I've never thought of before, but you are right. But I think it's got more of an entry point than with actual casuals. The game is complex enough that some try out Borderlands or Mass Effect or Twisted Metal and that can open up everything. Whereas it's hard to go from Wii Sports to Planescape:Torment because there#s a much greater divide of complexity between true casuals and every other game on the ladder,

All in all, to bring this rambly post back to some kind of coherence... the gaming industry is in a really weird place right now. And I'm not sure Sony, as they are currently, are all that well equipped to deal with it. If they start scaling back hardware costs, and trying to focus on what made the PS1 and PS2 such astronomically successful consoles, then the company as a whole could still soldier on. If they simply make a moderately succesful, rather expensive console, however, that'll just be one more problem to add to their list of financial woes, and right now, they can't take much more of that sort of thing.
I was reading up on the PS2's launch and it sounds like it's success was partly down to the xbox and gamecube sucking =D It was over expensive, buggy, kept breaking and was hard to develop for.

I actually think moderately successful is what they should be aiming for. I think if they tried to gain dominance they would fail, MS and Nintendo are too smart to make the slip ups of before (I mean even the 360's final success is probably a lot down to the PS3 getting a bad start, rather than inherent strengths, because it ended up balancing out). As long as you have enough of an install base that it is always worth developing cross platform games, then you can make money. Sony make something like 30% off every game sold for a PS3 right? If they were taking pounds 60 losses on each console they still make that back in 5 game purchases. And even the CoD casuals buy 3 CoDs and 2 Fifas over a console life span. Providing they don't lose, there's still enough money for them. They don't even have to watch out for rising dev costs in the same way because they have a steady source of income even if they don't produce games themselves or make profit on the hardware
 

pat34us

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Atary77 said:
While many folks are waiting for a PS4 it's not hard to believe that there are some people who think a PS4 won't even happen
You don't have a link do you? I have been following the next gen consoles pretty closely and I have not read anything of the sort.
 

Atary77

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pat34us said:
Atary77 said:
While many folks are waiting for a PS4 it's not hard to believe that there are some people who think a PS4 won't even happen
You don't have a link do you? I have been following the next gen consoles pretty closely and I have not read anything of the sort.
http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2012/12/thumb-wars-episode-20-the-disappointments-of-2012/

Here ya go.
 

Mr. Omega

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This is a topic I've discussed with friends many times. I'll keep my point of view on it simplified:

None of the "Big 3" are close to the position that Sega was in when they dropped out of the console market. But Sony is the closest one to that position, by a longshot compared to the other two.
 

Ethan Bewley

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Frankly, I am one of those people who wants Killzone on the Xbox. I know that this is a little off topic but I just wanted to put that out there.
 

Epona

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To be honest, I have stopped playing console games for the most part. I would rather play on a handheld any day. I have no intention of buying any next gen consoles and the Vita doesn't really have me excited either. Don't want to play games on a touch screen phone either. Most of what I play these days is on the PSP or the 3DS. Right now I am playing the new Harvest Moon game on the 3DS.

I do use the PS3 for Netflix/Blu-Ray/DVD though.
 

Abomination

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They also publish some behemoth IPs like the Total War series... and I guess Sonic?

Rome 2: Total War will be a good measure as to how successful Sega can be in the PC market at least.
 

Epona

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Akalabeth said:
Crono1973 said:
You should be asking if Microsoft is done with games in favor of making an ad/subscription supported cable box.
Considering they just released Halo 4 and created Black Tusk studio and two other game-related studios in Vancouver & Victoria I think that would be a silly question to ask.
They also have 43 more non gaming apps coming. Nice of you to ignore that.


http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20121212/microsoft-goes-all-out-promote-non-gaming-content-xbox-id-1701712560.html
 

Karfroogle

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I think the gaming industry is the last thing Sony would pull out of. It's kind of their biggest thing right now, or am I the only one who's noticed their amazing selection of games that came out of nowhere this yearend?
 

Joey Bolzenius

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Well, Sony is too focused on way too many different forms of media to focus on just one with the attention it deserves. AAA budgets are so ridiculous these days that you as a game company need dedicated game designers to be your focus instead of high tech bullshit like 3D and 4k that is way too expensive for 85-90 percent of the gaming consumer base. If Sony dropped their 3d and 4k aspirations and hired a large group of A+ students from Digipen, then they would have much better success in games, that is if they really cared about doing well in games market.
 

Epona

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Akalabeth said:
Crono1973 said:
Akalabeth said:
Crono1973 said:
You should be asking if Microsoft is done with games in favor of making an ad/subscription supported cable box.
Considering they just released Halo 4 and created Black Tusk studio and two other game-related studios in Vancouver & Victoria I think that would be a silly question to ask.
They also have 43 more non gaming apps coming. Nice of you to ignore that.


http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20121212/microsoft-goes-all-out-promote-non-gaming-content-xbox-id-1701712560.html
Non-gaming apps are irrelevant to your original suggestion that they were "done making games". Done making games means they're not making games, but they ARE making games so whatever else they're doing doesn't matter in the least.

Huge multi-billion dollar corporations can do more than one thing at the same time, who knew?

It seems pretty obvious the Microsoft is more interested in services than games these days. That is what I meant but if you want to be literal with my words, so be it.
 

Mr. Omega

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s69-5 said:
But Sony is the closest one to that position, by a longshot compared to the other two.
Wait, what?

PS3 70 million Vs XBox 360 70 (or 72) million.

Microsoft forced to replace countless systems due to abysmal failure rate.
PSN hacked and Sony gives away free games.
Consumers largely shrug in both instances.
Winner: Sony (Fixing the hack is cheaper than replacing systems)

XBox 360 has 1 year head start and is DOA in Asia.
(Wii aside) PS3 in the lead in all territories except MS' home turf, the U.S.A. and is now almost even in total sales.
Winner: Sony

Sorry, not seeing it.
Admittedly I did overstate it. But Sony has also had more to deal with than Microsoft. The Move was a failure, the 3DTV gaming thing didn't take off at all, and the Vita has been bombing in its own home turf week after week. But to be fair PS Plus has become a point in Sony's favor. Maybe they aren't that much further off than Microsoft, but I do think they are closer to the "Sega Point" than either of the other console makers.

Keep in mind I did say that none of the big three are close to that point.
 

lunavixen

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I think if Sony drop out of the handheld market, they should be okay, neither of their handhelds have really been a success (i do have a PSP and i do like it, but i don't have many games for it).

I've been a playstation house since the PS1, the only Playstation console i don't have is the vita, and there is not enough interesting games on it to make me want to buy it.
 

Dr.Susse

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rhizhim said:
sony created/collaborated with the tester series.

if thats not a reason they are going downhill or an indicator that they have someone that makes really, really bad decisions on a too high for the companies health rank, than i dont know.

firing a huge portion of the marketing staff was the most intelligent decision sony made this year.
Mate I love how in the credits of that vid it said "Provided by Sony pictures" It just made me laugh.

OT:I didn't frequent the video game side of the internet as much when the Psp came out but from what I remember wasn't in a fairly similar position to the Vita now?
 

havoc33

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Mr. Omega said:
s69-5 said:
But Sony is the closest one to that position, by a longshot compared to the other two.
Wait, what?

PS3 70 million Vs XBox 360 70 (or 72) million.

Microsoft forced to replace countless systems due to abysmal failure rate.
PSN hacked and Sony gives away free games.
Consumers largely shrug in both instances.
Winner: Sony (Fixing the hack is cheaper than replacing systems)

XBox 360 has 1 year head start and is DOA in Asia.
(Wii aside) PS3 in the lead in all territories except MS' home turf, the U.S.A. and is now almost even in total sales.
Winner: Sony

Sorry, not seeing it.
Admittedly I did overstate it. But Sony has also had more to deal with than Microsoft. The Move was a failure, the 3DTV gaming thing didn't take off at all, and the Vita has been bombing in its own home turf week after week. But to be fair PS Plus has become a point in Sony's favor. Maybe they aren't that much further off than Microsoft, but I do think they are closer to the "Sega Point" than either of the other console makers.

Keep in mind I did say that none of the big three are close to that point.
You guys are somewhat missing the point. Sony will never drop out of the console business unless they are FORCED to. At the moment, the Playstation business is their only business running with a good profit. What worries me is that they have fallen so much behind on other areas that it will all shut down in a few years. I'd hate to see that happen, Sony pulling out from videogames would be a huge loss to the industry.
 

Sennune

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Foolproof said:
Sennune said:
I don't think there's been enough speculation in this thread on the evolution of the gaming industry and Sony's involvement in it. Vita failed. The PS3 hardware still hasn't pulled through. Now Sony is looking toward the next console generation, a generation analysts and some developers have said may be the last console generation we will see. With companies like Valve, EA, Microsoft and others moving towards a digital platform for game distribution, the need for individual gaming machines will decrease more over this next generation.
You do realise that Sony are the ones who actually own the only worthwhile cloud gaming service currently in existence, right? They are by far the most future proof people attached to games.
That's true, I forgot about that. Sony isn't alien to non-Playstation gaming courtesy of SOE and they do have their cloud gaming service. Sony will last quite a long time in the gaming arena.
 

xPixelatedx

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As far as I am concerned they've been done for a while.

I absolutely loved my PS1 and PS2, and I have HUGE libraries for both. My PS3? I have MGS4, Little Big Planet, God of war and some HD collections of PS2 games... I can't honestly justify keeping my PS3 outside of using it as a blueray player. This thing is pretty much a $400 paper weight. If Sony was serious about staying in the game, they wouldn't abandon so many of the great games that put them on the map each gen. I cannot believe how long we've waited for a Sly Cooper game, and where the hell is Crash? There is about a dozen other franchises dating back to the PS1 also MIA, all of them a million times more fun that that uncharted shit now replacing it. I usually buy all the consoles, but I may actually avoid the PS4 this time around. If things keep the way they are I can't imagine there will be anything worthwhile in their exclusives.
 

hermes

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No, they won't.

Their consoles division is one of the few profitable ones. They might shrink other departments, but they are far from throwing the glove in the consoles market (not the same as the handheld market, which I think Sony should stop)