Is Square racist?

[SodaDew]

Any old style game,book, or any form of media showing 'racist things' I feel is a important part of history for example, I own 2 post cards of 'Black Americans' being shown the same was as in the OP's picture. But I consider it a important part of history to hold on to ( Now Barret on the other hand was just for humor)

 

[Mordwyl]

It's not just for black people. All of Nomura's leads (FFVII onwards) are pale, skinny and for the most part Asian-looking girly men that whine constantly when there's bigger problems to worry about (i.e. A giant meteor about to destroy the planet, a witch from the future disrupting space-time, an eldritch abomination constantly endangering everyone in the world, etc.).

 

[reddfawks]

At least Square acknowledges that other races exist. They may only be familiar with those races from TV shows from the 80s, but at least it's a sort of progress.

I was actually going to bring that up. Didn't Nomura (or, at least one of the designers) say something about basing his design for Sazh out of a mix of Eddie Murphy and Lionel Ritchie? I lol'd.

 

[Toriver]

a better question is are the Japanese racist, and yes they are, really most cultures are pretty racist, when it comes down to it the US is probably one of the least racist around.... for the most part

Yep, they will even admit it themselves (though not proudly). Several guides on Japan I have read, written by Japanese people, have the very sentence "Japan is a racist country" as the opening line in their articles about Japan and race. They will not deny it. Though as others have said, it's more of an ignorant/stereotyping racism than it is a malicious form of racism... unless you're talking about the Chinese or Koreans, or the US did something to upset Japan recently.

 

[Treefingers]

Who cares? You have one example that is over 20 years old to back up your claims. (I'm not counting the FF7 claim, because that isn't racist at all.) You're just being overly pedantic and politically correct for the sake of being overly pedantic and politically correct.

I'm going to take a rough guess and say that you're white?

It'd explain why you don't care about the more covert forms of racism, is all.

 

[Wintermoot]

unlike the US Japan isn't a cultural malting pot so they have little to no experience with black people.

 

[jovack22]

hahaha this made me laugh

also it reminds me of the old black and white cartoons.

 

[mireko]

I think it's a fallacy, though, to assume that racism has to be intentional rather than just culturally manifested.

Okay, that's a good point. I suppose it's only fair to judge the caricature on its own merits, and now I'm a little embarrassed for not doing that from the start. As for the thread title itself, they don't seem to do this anymore. It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but they seem to have learned from past mistakes, so calling the company racist might be a little excessive.

I'm trying to remember other black characters in Square-Enix games, but there's really just that, Barrett and Sazh. I played FFVII when I was 11 or something, so my memory isn't too clear there. Sazh wasn't bad, though.

[sub]Not that I liked him much as a character. Threatening to kill a ??-year old girl is kind of unpleasant. Doubly so when everyone's so poorly-written that they act drunk half the time.[/sub]

 

[Fappy]

I'm sorry, thats just funny.

Anyway, I would say yes. But all Japanese are inherently racist.

This is supposed to be ironic right? LOL

 

[Baralak]

I think it's a fallacy, though, to assume that racism has to be intentional rather than just culturally manifested.

Okay, that's a good point. I suppose it's only fair to judge the caricature on its own merits, and now I'm a little embarrassed for not doing that from the start. As for the thread title itself, they don't seem to do this anymore. It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but they seem to have learned from past mistakes, so calling the company racist might be a little excessive.

I'm trying to remember other black characters in Square-Enix games, but there's really just that, Barrett and Sazh. I played FFVII when I was 11 or something, so my memory isn't too clear there. Sazh wasn't bad, though.

[sub]Not that I liked him much as a character. Threatening to kill a ??-year old girl is kind of unpleasant. Doubly so when everyone's so poorly-written that they act drunk half the time.[/sub]

Barret was slightly stereotyped, but he was a fully fleshed out character, right down to

Spoiler

Loving his adopted daughter that he got when his best friend died

My main question is, why is EVERY non-white character that doesn't COMPLETELY go against EVERY stereotype somehow racist? Do people forget that stereotypes are not only -not- inherently racist, but were all based upon truth? There'd be no stereotypes if there weren't tons of people living them everyday.

In fact, I'd be willing to argue that most stereotypes are closer to real life than many people are comfortable with. A version of the Uncanny Valley, if you will.

-end rant-

 

[MasterChief892039]

Ha - oh wow. What a lovely screen cap.

Is Square still racist today? I would imagine that depends on your definition of racism. Is it racist to include mainly white characters, and Westernize the appearance of your Asian characters? Is it racist to include one "token black guy" in nearly every one of your games? Is it racist to give that character a stereotypical afro that has small animals living it it?

Square obviously has some issues with diversity, but in the present I'd say they aren't "racist" so much as they are exactly the same as every other game company.

 

[RelexCryo]

I found this image when I was reading about Square's Tom Sawyer, which was released in 1989 and--in spite of being based on the work of a popular American novelist--never made it stateside. Anyway, I think the depiction of Jim in it speaks for itself:

Anyway--what do you guys think? This isn't the first instance of racial insensitivity unearthed in Squaresoft's games--take Barret in Final Fantasy VII, for example (to boot: he beat his chest). I also think that a lot of people are likely to offer cultural apologia--to claim that Japan is different--but I'm not sure if that's really an adequate explanation.

Sorry to be so horribly PC, but this is just the way I feel.

Um...with regards to Barrett...I don't recall him beating his chest. He didn't even have two hands to do so with. He was also a loving father, and, interestingly enough, the most powerful character in the game. He was more powerful than Cloud, by a lot.

 

[Yopaz]

Anyway--what do you guys think? This isn't the first instance of racial insensitivity unearthed in Squaresoft's games--take Barret in Final Fantasy VII,

You are aware that the word "first" indicates that it happened before the even in question, right? I am pretty sure Final Fantasy VII was made after Tom Sawyer. The picture in question is easily a product of a limited colour palette.
All the time when any game developer wants to have a character that isn't a white male of age 10-40 they suffer from not being able to determine how he/she is going to be. Then they go for the stereotype.

As you said in your original post some of us will mention that Japan is different, and yes, that's true. Japan has had a history of being racists. \If I am not mistaken the Japanese word for foreigner also mean savage or something like it. Is this racist? Probably not, my bet is on stupidity.

 

[RA92]

Seriously, people need to stop tossing around the word "racism" like it's cheap fucking cigars.

Cigars are cheap?

And you throw them away? O_O

OT: Hmmm... I wonder how a Japanese would react to this thread...

 

[Watchmacallit]

Meh. The old Bugs Bunny used to have a Black Cotton Picker chasing him instead. Racism was big back then.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Well that certainly is insensitive but your noted example is old and the other doesn't seem that bad the way you describe it. I'd need more then that to see racism beyond the normal white privilege.

 

[HentMas]

Every time Square depicts a black person, it's always in a very stereotypical manner. Sometimes are worse than others, I suppose.

Stereotyping isn't exactly racism.

Exactly this, after all, most Japanese games are based on stereotypes, the hero, the girl in distress, the gadget girl, the big muscular man with a heart... its just the way they try to please as many people as they can, trying to make at least one character that someone can relate to, or give a damn

see any FF game or any Anime from the 90´s and you will get the idea

 

[AceAngel]

ON-T: You have consider that it has to do alot with hardware limitations. Did you know that in old games, female models were given HUGE breasts due to the limitations of the graphics back in the day? All you could do was put up two triangles, and even then, they didn't look like much at a distance. This is true, and anyone who has read up on old game modeling books will see this is one of the things that was discussed about alot.

You also have to consider color limitation. Black was extremely easy to render out, but dump in a couple of brown that actually look like brown and not you TV has a burn at one part, and good luck. It's not until we went 16bits that we atleast got something note-worthy as far as color go.

On pixels, it's much different in 2D. You literally would have to clump with a pair of pixels infront of the chest to make it look like a girl, or give it long hair. There was literally no other way around the issue. That racially and sexually may sound 'sexist and racist', but it wasn't. People need to learn more about how games worked the limitations before making half-arse statements like yours. Sorry, but it's true. Your opinion may have some worth for your average media and gamer (as well forum) but we developers knew and know better (especially us artist guys) so your argument is PC at best, and ignorant of the subject matter at worst to put it mildly, and is worth moot to us.

OFF-T: You are the reason many of my friends are afraid to even make the model of a black guy. Do you know how many times we took the scans of black guy, and he had by nature a more protruded lower jaw?

Or that his nose and forehead length were considerably different? Or that he had flat Afro?

Yet in the studio, they couldn't do much because there was one guy scared to hell that he would get fired on such a thing, to show at the board-meeting, and when it was shown, they were told to essentially make the guys face 'white in terms of facial features' but at a darker skin color. It also didn't help that they were told to make him bald to further the issue to tone down any allegations of racial stereotype.

It's amazing at how gamers aren't willing to buy a good game to support a worthy developer with their money, yet are willing to complain about 'what a black person should look like' and they essentially have voted as to not wishing to see stereotypes when it comes people of a different race.

The irony in all this is one of the guys who worked in the scans was a black guy himself, and he happened to be my teacher, who also happened to a texture artist for Iron Man. He actually pissed off that we couldn't show 'more faces' due to all this PC.

 

[Kortney]

Japan is quite openly racist. It's not really a taboo there. Their Prime Minister constantly expresses how proud he is that Japan is a "one race nation". It's just a different culture. If Obama said anything like that, he'd be fried.

 

[BrownGaijin]

Racially insensitive maybe, but this can be said about any culture on the planet.