Is Square racist?

[Tyrak]

I'm sorry, but I find that opening picture hilarious.

Moving on.

They might be, though as some have said, it's more...Insensitive, rather than openly hostile. They're not /as/ bad as, say, Capcom, but Square's had its moments. Many, many developers have, often without realizing it, or at least the wrong in it. It happens.

Now excuse me while I save that picture.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

I don't know if I could consider Square- and, by extension, Japan as a whole- to be racist. Sometimes their characterization of certain races is very stereotypical, but I think that's more of a reflection of the Western pop-culture material that makes it into Japanese culture. Since Japan isn't very racially diverse (at least not as diverse as somewhere like the USA or England) it only makes sense for them to take cues from pop culture.

For the most part, I think Japan's stereotyping of races in entertainment isn't malicious in any way. It's done purely for entertainment, and they don't really seem to pick on any race specifically; as far as I can tell from the anime, manga, and video games I consume, pretty much any race is fair game for stereotyping, even themselves.

To be honest, I wish that Western nations were that laid back about political correctness.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Every time Square depicts a black person, it's always in a very stereotypical manner. Sometimes are worse than others, I suppose.

Stereotyping isn't exactly racism.

Sahz from FF13 didn't really seem sterotyping, maybe the hair but overall not really.

It wasn't that bad

 

[MoD1212]

I don't see racism in this at all, is everyone forgetting what a caricature is?

"A caricature can refer to a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness" - wikipedia

Listen man I'm black and for the most part as a race we do tend to have bigger lips than most soo in drawing a caricature of a black person that's something that would stand out to the artist.

Plus every other comment about the Japanese getting most if not all their first perception of black people from foreign media is probably right and I'm pretty sure HentMas is on point from a development stand point

so no square is not racist but i appreciate your concern

p.s. i haven't played 13 yet but Barrett is easily one of the best characters from VII and his "stereotypical" nature at times only made him more human

 

[justnotcricket]

I don't see racism in this at all, is everyone forgetting what a caricature is?

"A caricature can refer to a portrait that exaggerates or distorts the essence of a person or thing to create an easily identifiable visual likeness" - wikipedia

Listen man I'm black and for the most part as a race we do tend to have bigger lips than most soo in drawing a caricature of a black person that's something that would stand out to the artist.

Plus every other comment about the Japanese getting most if not all their first perception of black people from foreign media is probably right and I'm pretty sure HentMas is on point from a development stand point

so no square is not racist but i appreciate your concern

p.s. i haven't played 13 yet but Barrett is easily one of the best characters from VII and his "stereotypical" nature at times only made him more human

Charicatures are kind to no-one - my partner pointed out to me that the Asterix and Obelix comics also show black people with huge red lips etc, but at the same time the (white) French (Gaulish) characters all had huge noses...

I agree that it is odd, even unpleasant to modern sensibilities to see such a charicature, and because I am caucasian myself I find it a little hard to comment - I don't condone racism, but I guess whether or not it is racist really depends on whether or not you think that the people behind the game were racist, and deliberately portrayed black people in this antiquated way as an insult. If this was the case, then you have a genuine example of racism. If not, then... I guess it's just a caricature.

At the end of the day, no, I don't think you can call Square racist based on one thing in one game tewnty-odd years ago. Whether or not those particular developers were personally and deliberately racist? Who knows...

 

[Luke Cartner]

For my complete view see a great song - everyones a little bit racist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHKIMOgoJoU

But seriously racism towards black people in Japan is unlikely to exist the same way it does in America simply because you'd have to try really really hard to actually find a black person in Japan..
And in effect the image reflects that as it simply shows as the devs dont actually know any black people they simply borrowed from iconography available to them.

 

[Vhite]

Everyone is little bit racist...

Spoiler

Fuck, am I like 10th that posted it?

 

[iblis666]

a better question is are the Japanese racist, and yes they are, really most cultures are pretty racist, when it comes down to it the US is probably one of the least racist around.... for the most part

Yeah, the japanese never actually got that it's not cool to portray black dudes as these clowning people with comically large lips.
They're not racist, there's no hatred involved. Just a litte ignorant, I guess.

Values dissonance at its finest.

I'm sorry, thats just funny.

Anyway, I would say yes. But all Japanese are inherently racist.

Barret has stereotypical traits, but he isn't a stereotype. He is an environmental terrorist who lives in a bar and tries to support his adopted white daughter as much as he can. Sazh isn't really a stereotypical character either, save the 'fro and the guns, but saying Sazh is stereotypical for his afro is like saying Jacob from Mass Effect 2 is stereotypical for his big nostrils.

However, Japanese companies can be extremely ignorant of races because there aren't much black people in Japan, so they base it off of characters in movies and other forms of media.

Have you seen the "black" crows in Disney films of the 70-80s? Or any of a dozen other American cartoons from before 1990? Yeah.

I'm just not sure why you think that Square stands out from the rest of Japan (who are known world-wide as pretty damn racist). At least Square acknowledges that other races exist. They may only be familiar with those races from TV shows from the 80s, but at least it's a sort of progress.

I find it funny that when we talk about Japan, we do it in sociological terms--like, "the Japanese are culturally racist"--rather than really assessing the severity of the actual depiction, and the individuals responsible. As Bara no Hime pointed out, there's been a lot of racism in North America, too, but I don't feel like we'd just assume racism in American or Canadian games is a write-off because "Americans are racist" (not a totally surreal claim, either, given its unique racial tensions).

Judging Japanese portrayals of different peoples by American standards doesn't really make sense though. Japan doesn't exactly have a black community, now does it? So you see they aren't making fun of black people, they're depicting foreigners. In other words, they're depicting black people and white people the way they see them depicted in the media they get from America.

Uh, Japanese girls read fashion magazines that are laden with images of white, western males. But often portrayals of black people in Japanese media are grossly prejudicial. So I'd say we're not just talking about the depiction of "foreigners" at large, here.

That depiction of black people was common in slavery-era America (and later, but I'll admit I'm undereducated on this topic), which is part of why it's so distasteful to us. Coming from Japan, it doesn't really mean anything since they weren't involved in that part of American history.

Consider Dead Island's 'lynching' logo. It wasn't considered inappropriate for a European release, but the American cover was changed due to unfortunate implications. The imagery simply means something else in a different region.

It's still stereotypical and crude, but I don't think there was any racist intent behind it.

[sub]That said, Square isn't what I would call racially progressive. Or any other kind of progressive.[/sub]

I think it's a fallacy, though, to assume that racism has to be intentional rather than just culturally manifested.

I think we should lighten up and call each other every single racial slur we can think of until we all realize that none of it means a damn thing and then we can laugh it all off.

BTW im very low on white people racial slurs besides cracker i really cant think of any

 

[Noatun]

I don't know whether or not it's racist (it would most definitely be considered racist in the Western world, obviously), if I were to give any noteworthy comment I would first have to study and investigate into the matter. However, I do think that there is some ignorance involved, most notably the ignorance towards certain charicatures and stereotypes. Japan doesn't seem to fully realise what is considered to be extremely offensive in other countries/cultures, nor does it seem to be bothered about all this. Considering how the ethnicity in Japan isn't as diverse as, say, the US or the Netherlands, it isn't that strange to consider that they simply don't fully realise the negative emotions these charicatures and stereotypes evoke; though I don't believe they're completely oblivious either.

African people aside, I frequently encounter genuine questions regarding Germany about how "witches cast ancient spells in the woods" and that some family member--think it was his grandma--strongly discouraged him to go there, because it's "too dangerous".

I wanted to reply by making a witty retort about tentacles, but I realised I'd be an ass if I were to do such a thing. After all, it's not his fault that he knows nothing about Germany. Also, I do find the fact that some of the Japanese wear swastikas--and I don't mean the Indian symbol--or something Nazi-related. What would they think if it became trendy to wear T-shirts saying "Fat Man" or "Little Boy", with the lines "Have a blast!" and a picture of a mushroom cloud in the Western world?

Edit: I hope everyone's intelligent enough to refrain from randomly yelling "Godwin's Law!" aloud.

 

[Soxafloppin]

Yea and all there Japanese characters have silly haircuts too!

 

[emeraldrafael]

I'm sorry, thats just funny.

Anyway, I would say yes. But all Japanese are inherently racist.

This is supposed to be ironic right? LOL

No, its not. if you look at the reasons its rather painfully obvious.

Maybe racist is a strong word. but hte Japanese are a VERY Elitist people.

EDIT:

BTW im very low on white people racial slurs besides cracker i really cant think of any

Honky's a good one. There's a particularly spiteful joke that nowadays seems quaint that deals with Honky and N*****.

Sorry, I'm partially Native American, so I get a lot of racial slurs towards me and learned alot more about white people.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Nah.

Sazh could have easily been a stereotype. He ended up being the most realistically portrayed character in FF13. Not that the competition was stiff...

 

[ace_the_poet]

I saw the title of this thread and really just wanted to respond with an outright "yup". But seriously. Based on that pic and some reference to FF7? Yeah, no. Also - I think I had that game. Awesome.

 

[Furious Styles]

Have you ever noticed how all the Japanese characters in most japanese movies and games look more white than asian? I mean, Sen from spirited away just looks like a little white girl.

I don't think they're racist, i just think that they're culture is so different to ours that we have a hard time understanding them some times and misinterpret some things as racist that just aren't.

 

[gustcq]

Judging Japanese portrayals of different peoples by American standards doesn't really make sense though. Japan doesn't exactly have a black community, now does it? So you see they aren't making fun of black people, they're depicting foreigners. In other words, they're depicting black people and white people the way they see them depicted in the media they get from America.

^^ WIN!

 

[Rayne870]

Where did they find a black ginger?

 

[The Youth Counselor]

Yes and no.

The OP cited an example from a 22 year old game, when blackface carictures were just starting to be phased out due to the 80's embrace of multiculturalism. Growing up in the U.S. during the 1990's I was still seeing highly racist cartoons on TV with Superman battling bucktoothed slant eyed "Japs" and Bugs Bunny being chased by dark skinned, big lipped "savages" in jungles.

As for Barrett, he is indeed a stereotypical big angry black man, but that's really a characterization that's in everything and everywhere still today. Should we do more to remove stereotypes and the the practice of segregating ethnic roles to token characters? Absolutely. Should we really be offended by these? Not really, I know many people who fit into this stereotype.

 

[starwarsgeek]

Racism--believing one race to be superior or inferior to another.

So, no, I can't say they're racist judging by that picture alone. Yes, the picture is culturally and racially insensitive and ignorant, but that's not the same as racism.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I find it interesting that alot of people reference Sazh as a rascist character yet hes the only one in the game people seem to consider bearable.

 

[Gibboniser]

It was a long time ago, when Racism wasn't nearly as taboo as it is today.