Is Steve Jobs the 2nd Greatest Innovator of All Time?

devotedsniper

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I don't agree, i mean come on what exactly has been innovative? The iphones are nothing more than an overpriced touchscreen phone, and with every release they just fix problems from the previous ones (i mean come on the first one didnt even record video, my phone from 8 years ago could do that). And as for the macs again there just overpriced pc's with very little compatiability (yes it's starting to get better but they've taken there sweet time). I'll probably get flamed for those 2 comments but there the ones which come to mind, i have yet to see a product other than the ipod which i actually like from them (and even the ipod i've never bothered buying because of the price, you can get a decent mp3 player for a fraction of the price).
 

BlackStar42

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Well, since it said "of all time" I'm going to go with the canny bastard(s) who invented agriculture. Let's face it, without that we'd be pretty fucked.
 

draythefingerless

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edison pushed innovation? probably. he was a thief and a bastard but he rallied all those people and even put some work into his inventions himself. still he was a slime and does not deserve to be commended.

even worse is god like figure Steve Jobs, who is a marketing genius, BUT NOTHING FUCKING ELSE. I DONT WANNA FUCKING HEAR HOW APPLE MADE STUFF MAINSTREAM AND HOW IT HELPED THE MARKET, IT STILL DIDNT INNOVATE JACKSHIT.

i want Tesla, i want fucking Gutenberg, i want MOTHER, FUCKING, GALILEUS-COPERNICUS-NEWTON.

but i guess this is about who pushed bussiness innovation the most, not actual mankind.
 

LordLundar

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XandNobody said:
WAIT A SECOND! Wait, wait, wait, Thomas Edison? Thomas Motherf***ing Edison, still has first God**** place? Still? This kills the importance of Jobs position. Seriously, this is like comparing Gandhi to God**** Stalin. Jobs was this era's Tesla, not Edison, you d*** ****ing idiots.
Actually, I would say Jobs is this era's Edison. Both were corrupt thieves who thought they were above the law and if IP theft laws were around while either of them were doing it they'd both would have enough lawsuits to ensure their great grandchildren would never see a penny.

So yeah, I'd put them in the same bracket, just nowhere near the greatest innovator of their time.
 

Melnordan

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well that really says volumes of the quality of education they are handing out at MIT. If they don't even recognize that with out the past the present wouldn't exist and the future wouldn't be a thought then how can they hope to teach anything. i wish I had her email address so that I, and others, could email her and prove to her how much like "Snookie" she sounds. Without Tesla none of Jobs "inventions" could have even existed. Tesla invented electricity for god sake so I think only Curie's inventions would have worked without Tesla.

But could Tesla have done what he did without those who came before him? Does anyone know who invented the printing press?(Johannes Gutenberg) Without that device 1 book would take years to copy and costs tens of thousands of dollars. His schooling would not have been there to give him the basics that he used to develop his theories.

No inventor can claim that he is the greatest for without the inventions of the past no one could get past the very basics in a single life time. Issac Newton may have said it best "If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants. " To claim that One inventor is better than others is to ignore the past and prove your ignorance.

On the subject of her desire to have more and better inventors coming out of the school system that would require a fundamental change in the way the schools work. I would say that the Ken Robinson Put it best in his TED talk Schools Kill Creativity. in it he explains how schools need to change the focus of education to bring back creativity. It is one of the things that is needed by any inventor so maybe MIT should look into that sort of thing.

Well that is my piece on this one.
 

Atmos Duality

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Steve Jobs? Innovator?
How retarded are these people? No really, I normally don't ask that sort of question, but this is just fucking stupid. Are they really that brainwashed by marketing? Or are they really just that damn ignorant?

I guess they don't realize that without the innovators of science (Coulomb, Faraday, Newton, Tesla, Gauss, just to name a few) that the little logic gates, transistors and mathematical logic that enable microprocessors and programming to function in the first place, Steve Jobs wouldn't had even had a market for his iFads, let alone a job.

The man ruthlessly rode on the back of the innovation of others; he was a brilliant marketer and investor, no question, but one of the greatest (and thus, most significant) INNOVATORS OF ALL TIME?
Provably false.
 

mindlesspuppet

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Did anyone in this poll actually invent, i.e. innovate, anything?

Edison is known for patenting inventions, not actually inventing it.

Steve Jobs is known for ever so slightly modifying things that people already made.

Alexander Graham Bell is probably the most deserving to be on the list, and even here he simply beat Elisha Gray to the patent office.

Marie Curie studied elements, really didn't innovate anything.

Amelia Earhart... just WTF?

and Temple Grandin, well shit, I'll give that a WTF too.
 

MasterSplinter

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"most of his work was in the 1880" Oh I'm sorry i thought you said "of all time" not just your recent memory.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Nouw said:
I thought Thomas Edison copied everyone's ideas. Damn it school education and internet clashing!
It's hip to bash Edison because he's American, especially nowadays.

The bottom line is that a lot of really smart people from that time period all tended to travel in the same circles. Edison was pretty much the elite of the group, but worked with a lot of people, and there has been a tendency nowadays to say he stole from the people he worked with rather than doing anything of his own... which is kind of contridictory because if that was actually true he never would have retained the contacts he had. People at that time were all heavily interested in the business aspects of things and "races to the patent office" were not uncommon. Edison wound up being credited for so much because he really was that good and a lot of the people claimed to have been the actual innovators were more along the lines of assistants to him.

The thing is that Edison is used as one of the "go to" guys for the arguement that the US pretty much invented/created the modern world, something a lot of the world takes exception to, especially given how relatively recent he was. It's one thing to speak about someone like Davinci whose ideas are now quaint, than someone whose stuff still forms a direct backbone of what we use today.

It also doesn't help that a lot of the great modern minds were more or less chased out of their home countries and came to the US where they were better appreciated due to the enviroment we presented. Scotland (I believe) tries to claim Alexander Graham Bell for example because he was born there, but they pretty much ran him out and he did all of his stuff in Canada (who also tries to claim him) and the US. Of course he also shows something of the mentality because one of the big contreversies over the phone was how he wanted to submit things to both the US and British Patent office but needed to do it in Britan first because of how they wouldn't accept a patent already on record in another country (where the US would allow you to multi-patent). It's been a long time, so I could have some of the details there wrong... but it's fairly interesting.

At any rate the two biggest innovators of the period are probably Edison and Tesla. Both of whom had some very good ideas, and their business relationship DOES raise some interesting questions. In the end though a lot of the Pro-Tesla crowd seems to overlook that Tesla was almost dysfunctionally insane, believing in doing things like unleashing psychic power with pyramid shaped headwear and such. People tend to point to his good ideas, but tend to also want to overlook where he actually directed a lot of his energy. That said his work on direct current, even as a collaberator, alone makes him one of the biggest innovators in history.

Steve Jobs really doesn't belong on the list, he's AN innovator, but not one of the biggest.

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates deserve credit for developing a usable computer operating system which made computer approachable to the average person. All comments about other "tech guys" aside it always comes down to those two in discussing whether or not Bill invented MS DOS or stole it from Steve, an arguement which goes back to things like HiDOS from the Apple II.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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rhizhim said:
mindlesspuppet said:
Did anyone in this poll actually invent, i.e. innovate, anything?

Edison is known for patenting inventions, not actually inventing it.

Steve Jobs is known for ever so slightly modifying things that people already made.

Alexander Graham Bell is probably the most deserving to be on the list, and even here he simply beat Elisha Gray to the patent office.

Marie Curie studied elements, really didn't innovate anything.

Amelia Earhart... just WTF?

and Temple Grandin, well shit, I'll give that a WTF too.
what about these dudes



In the early 1950s, the race to discover DNA was on. At Cambridge University, graduate student Francis Crick and research fellow James Watson (b. 1928) had become interested, impressed especially by Pauling's work. Meanwhile at King's College in London, Maurice Wilkins (b. 1916) and Rosalind Franklin were also studying DNA. The Cambridge team's approach was to make physical models to narrow down the possibilities and eventually create an accurate picture of the molecule. The King's team took an experimental approach, looking particularly at x-ray diffraction images of DNA.

In 1951, Watson attended a lecture by Franklin on her work to date. She had found that DNA can exist in two forms, depending on the relative humidity in the surrounding air. This had helped her deduce that the phosphate part of the molecule was on the outside. Watson returned to Cambridge with a rather muddy recollection of the facts Franklin had presented, though clearly critical of her lecture style and personal appearance. Based on this information, Watson and Crick made a failed model. It caused the head of their unit to tell them to stop DNA research. But the subject just kept coming up.

Franklin, working mostly alone, found that her x-ray diffractions showed that the "wet" form of DNA (in the higher humidity) had all the characteristics of a helix. She suspected that all DNA was helical but did not want to announce this finding until she had sufficient evidence on the other form as well. Wilkins was frustrated. In January, 1953, he showed Franklin's results to Watson, apparently without her knowledge or consent. Crick later admitted, "I'm afraid we always used to adopt -- let's say, a patronizing attitude towards her."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/do53dn.html

and who got the nobel price?
ok to be fair she died before she could recieve it and you know no prizes for dead people.(mostly) but then again who will be remembered the most?

Hmmm, well things like this are a touchy subject. While it can be argued that she came up with the basic theories, it was Watson an Crick who actually made them workable and did something with them, and that's generally what gets rewarded.

To put things into a certain kind of perspective, think about some of the current "patent trolls" out there right now. Over the last few years we've had people who copyrighted ideas for things like MMOs in some cases decades before they appeared, but had no idea on how to make them a reality. I remember reading about at least one case (including a drawing) which is aparently still ongoing claiming that pretty much every MMORPG out there owes this guy money because he patented the idea before anyone did it.

The idea of a patent troll (which is actually legally reinforced) is to come up with something you think is potentially going to happen, patent the idea, and then show up to demand the profits when someone else makes it, based on your speculation.

Whether you legally win or not in the long run (there have been mixed results over the years) doesn't change the fact that nobody really respects this.

It's not a direct analogy to the situation above, but basically your dealing with someone who had a basic idea they couldn't do anything with, except give a few lectures outlining the concepts.

This is like a science fiction author demanding recognition for someone making something similar to what's in his books. I mean it's nice if he gets a nod (like Watson and Crick have done after her passing) but the full credit as an innovator compared to the person who did it? I don't quite agree with what.
 

Babitz

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This makes me rage. God damnit this education system is failing humanity so much. Both Jobs and Edison were assholes who didn't do shit in their lives; they both exploited geniuses, but never were one. I'd say Jobs and Wozniak of today are like Edison and Tesla of yesteryear.
Also, why is Mark Zuckenberg on this list?
God damn it.
 

Babitz

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Therumancer said:
Nouw said:
I thought Thomas Edison copied everyone's ideas. Damn it school education and internet clashing!
It's hip to bash Edison because he's American, especially nowadays.
Except that we was an asshole and a hack.
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3345-historical-figures-who-were-actually-dicks/
http://www.cracked.com/article_16072_5-famous-inventors-who-stole-their-big-idea.html

Also, Bill didn't invent MS DOS, he bought it from some Russian guy and sold it as his own product.
Steve Jobs, on the other hand, probably never even wrote a line of code in his life. All he did was leech on people smarter than him, like Edison.
 

WaysideMaze

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Apr 25, 2010
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fix-the-spade said:
If people taught history properly, Edison wouldn't even be on that list, the man was a patent troll and a thug.

Also, a list of innovators that does not include Da Vinci (or Tesla?!?). I despair!
I must be the 10th person to quote you now, but you really couldn't be more right.

This list makes me weep.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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This list makes me sad. I can't believe there is no Einstein on this list. No Archimedes, no Cai Lun, No Gutenburg, no Tesla? There are so many people far more deserving than what is on there.
 

mindlesspuppet

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Babitz said:
Therumancer said:
Also, Bill didn't invent MS DOS, he bought it from some Russian guy and sold it as his own product.
Steve Jobs, on the other hand, probably never even wrote a line of code in his life. All he did was leech on people smarter than him, like Edison.
Bill Gates bought DOS from Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer (for 50k if I'm not mistaken), not "some Russian guy".