Is this how we should handle Dick Pics?

[runic knight]

The idea of shaming people for their own stupidity is one I can't really argue against in principle. If they flashing their junk at people who most likely want nothing to do with them or it, they are asking for a bit of mockery at the very least. That said, I do have to wonder about the practicality and the justness of how it is being done. On the one side, this seems to be baiting more dick pics from people either with no care of their family's opinions of them, or simply because they get off on that sort of thing. Or they may feel it a challenge and specifically rain dick pics or worse on them just because of the predictable reaction. On the other, I am not sure I like the self righteous vigilantism of it, especially given the ease of harm the would-be backlash can do to people who aren't actually involved. Steal a pic online, hack a phone or email, spoof an IP, lot of ways to mislead where things come from, or even intentional frame others for it. Considering this is presented through Jezebel, from, well, people I don't trust in any degree of personal responsibility, restraint, or even fair examination when it comes to their personal politics or ideology, I have a lot of doubts about the idea. Reminds me a little too much of the open carry nutters for comfort; both groups of people looking for an excuse to show off how much of a "good guy" they are by way of punishing others.

Not saying I think it is too common an occurrence at the moment, but change the dynamic of how people respond and watch people take advantage of that change. This would-be solution seems it will cause more issues and more serious issues to others. When you risk harming the lives of people just to counter a troll, I think the troll has well and truly won.

I think that will subside though when the laws catch up to include electronic communications. As it is, in most places it is illegal to send dick pics via snail mail, they just have not updated them to include modern communications in many places. It is happening slowly, and will get there in time, in the meantime this is one of the only options people have to combat it. If they do not want people to have to handle it themselves, they need to update the laws accordingly so people have someone they can call to have something done about it. We are just in this " in between stage" where it is running rampant because people have no recourse.

It is crazy though that this has gone on as long as it has without having laws updated more often... I am sure they do not want to look back on this time in internet history as "Era of Rampant Dicks", instead of people having shootouts over poker matches like the wild west they are fighting dick pics with dick pics..

Though if someone flashes someone in person, the person who was flashed has every right to tell their family what they did. They talk to news reporters, and the whole world finds out what they did , so I am not really seeing that as a problem here for them doing it online as well.

I agree, the law should be adjusted, sensibly, to have some means to deal with people sending unwanted stuff like that. Would probably be hard to word the language to not be weaponized though between ex's who have shared nudes or similar things. We've seen the lack of care about similar things on sites like facebook or youtube where the claim of nudity is enough to cause trouble for accounts, adding a legal repercussion to that instead of a commercial one would have to be done with care.

As for people having a right to inform others, that isn't the point of contention here. I think the problem is tied with the anonymity of it all and the ease to cause issues for people in a rush to play the hero vigilante. Like I said, it reminds me a lot of the open carry people. Both do have the right to do it, but both aren't prone to being very sensible with that applying right. And much like the open carry people, there is a lot of swaggering and showboating, and a far greater risk of issue because of it.

So I suppose my stance is, I see and agree with the concept, but I am weary as hell of the application of it and the harm it can cause.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I'm not big on "revenge" type stuff (there are exceptions) like this, so my opinion of this subject/article and this person is quite low.

I'm also not clicking on a Jezebel link, as I don't see any sense in further enabling them.

So, eh. Personally, I've received unsolicited tit and vajay pics (and since I no longer frequent sites where my personal info is available, it's) in the past. Some of which were far from appealing. It can make the recipient uncomfortable, it's unwarranted, and I don't understand why people do it.

By the same token, it's not as though I've never seen female genitalia before, nor is it something that I can't immediately just roll my eyes at, delete, and move on with my day. But, then, I'm not all that bothered by these sorts of things. Other people may well be...so, as a general rule, just don't send pics of your junk without making sure everything's copacetic.

With all of that said-

I don't and have never done that to someone, but is it weird that I now see this as a challenge?

Like, I went into a whole mental spiel about burner phones, using multiple VPNs, and constructing a dick-sized ski mask (the ones with a single slit, obviously) to get over this hurdle.

But then I thought, hey, that'd be a serious waste of my time and comes off as vindictive, petty, and indicative of a deep-seeded personal issue.

Far better to just shrug and read a book or something.

I will no longer go against the apparent hivemind of these forums out loud. It's honestly too much trouble to voice your opinion without being attacked anymore once a thread has attracted one section of morals/politics/etc and you do not hold the same values/opinion/etc.

Aw, c'mon. I realize our individual time is worth more to us than it is to others, but why cave on the issue? Wouldn't you think that's what they'd want?

I mean, ya just capitulated- not that it matters, I guess, because why should ya care, at all, what folks around here say, feel, or think?

And the same for them in regards to you.

You know this would look maybe a bit better if the reason you gave didn't just sum up to "A lot of people posted disagreeing with me." That's what happens on a forum. I'm not sure what's supposed to be so terrible about it that you get all passive aggressive with the 'hivemind' stuff.

It's kind of a cop out, but kind of isn't.

Honestly now, you can't refute that this sort of stuff comes in waves, from one crowd or the other, hereabouts. It's always the controversial topics (naturally) that bring it about and the Escapist has been pretty damned polarized after the last year or two due to, well... pretty damned polarizing events.

More often than not, you and several others come down on the opposite side of Mr. Ryhno and, again, several others. I'm often included in the latter group.

It's not a "hive-mind" so much as it's just like-minded individuals getting fired up at once, then simultaneously spraying their collective, subjective internet justice into someone's face.

It's veritable Hate-Bukake.

Anyways, on to the topic, I approve of what she's doing. Bringing home consequences for shitty actions will make at least some jackasses reconsider. There's bound to be a fair amount of cowards in there.

But it's just so fucking petty though! I don't get this sort of behavior when it comes to cheaters either.

You're expending life energy and what meager time you have on earth to be vindictive when you could be doing something worthwhile and constructive!

Like posting about something on the internet that doesn't, in any way, involve you.

 

[Areloch]

Frankly, if it's a problem, she should be handling it through the proper channels.

Something mentioned a few times in this thread, and in the general discussion of this sort of thing, is how ineffective "proper channels" are.

Well, maybe her freetime could be better utilized to raise awareness to improve those channels rather than stalking people? (I'm presuming something along the lines of stalking is involved. I don't know how she'd get the contact info for the sender's friends and family otherwise) That way not only she benefits in the end, but everyone, for any issue that'd go through those channels.

Self-serving vindictive vigilantism may work out for her, but the general issue isn't resolved, so I really can't see it as a net positive - thus, I can't see her behavior as 'how we should handle dick pics'.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

You know this would look maybe a bit better if the reason you gave didn't just sum up to "A lot of people posted disagreeing with me." That's what happens on a forum. I'm not sure what's supposed to be so terrible about it that you get all passive aggressive with the 'hivemind' stuff.

It's kind of a cop out, but kind of isn't.

Honestly now, you can't refute that this sort of stuff comes in waves, from one crowd or the other, hereabouts. It's always the controversial topics (naturally) that bring it about and the Escapist has been pretty damned polarized after the last year or two due to, well... pretty damned polarizing events.

More often than not, you and several others come down on the opposite side of Mr. Ryhno and, again, several others. I'm often included in the latter group.

It's not a "hive-mind" so much as it's just like-minded individuals getting fired up at once, then simultaneously spraying their collective, subjective internet justice into someone's face.

It's veritable Hate-Bukake.

I don't see a problem with wanting to bow out because the response is overwhelming, I don't think you really need an excuse for that. My problem is that he acts like it is some sort of hivemind that brooks no dissent. Like I'd said to the other guy, it's not that he bows out but the comments he makes as he goes that look a bit bad.

Anyways, on to the topic, I approve of what she's doing. Bringing home consequences for shitty actions will make at least some jackasses reconsider. There's bound to be a fair amount of cowards in there.

But it's just so fucking petty though! I don't get this sort of behavior when it comes to cheaters either.

You're expending life energy and what meager time you have on earth to be vindictive when you could be doing something worthwhile and constructive!

Like posting about something on the internet that doesn't, in any way, involve you.

Well we're all wasting time here. I never got it when people mention the value of time etc on an Internet forum. It's like the height of time wasting.

Also personally I really dislike the mentality that says it's okay to harass random innocent people for no reason. So I like to see bad things happen to people who think that way.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, maybe her freetime could be better utilized to raise awareness to improve those channels rather than stalking people? (I'm presuming something along the lines of stalking is involved. I don't know how she'd get the contact info for the sender's friends and family otherwise) That way not only she benefits in the end, but everyone, for any issue that'd go through those channels.

Actually, the attention this garners and the response it gets does benefit everyone in the end. Let's not pretend that one is going to benefit other people and the other isn't. People are gong to be less likely to whip their dicks out if they think there will be consequences.

This is also the sort of thing that leads to pressuring the powers that be into action, so let's not pretend that's an either/or scenario or that this can't bring about that sort of change. Often, this sort of attention brings about change a lot faster than trying to pressure law enforcement or government bodies directly.

Self-serving vindictive vigilantism may work out for her, but the general issue isn't resolved, so I really can't see it as a net positive - thus, I can't see her behavior as 'how we should handle dick pics'.

The general issue hasn't been resolved by decades of going to the police over sexual harassment, or years of petitioning for change, yet you still advocate that.

 

[Trunkage]

It's also really stupid, as it's only one small step from your phone to the internet as a whole. It's so easy for a phone or computer to be hacked and for potentially embarrassing photos to be leaked, it's just better to never take them in the first place. A good rule of thumb is to never have anything you don't want the entire world to see on a device connected to the internet.

That is a pretty insane way of thinking. I am not supposed to take some sexy pics for my SO because there is some kind of miniscule chance that they end up online?
Nonsense. Nobody is "hacking" my phone or my computer. The fact that you think "hackers" are on the prowl for John Does dick pics means you haven't the slightest idea about what is going on.

The way shit you take (pics or video alike) end up on the Internet is if your SO leaks it. It isn't because of any "hacker" browsing your "Nude Pics" folder on your desktop.

This depends on how much you care if someone puts your genitals on the internet. If its the most important thing for it not to be there, then no chance is the only option. If you realise that it is a risk and accept that it could go up then you have more choices. Your SO is likely to be responsible but you could make a mistake too. Or your friends if you leave it out when you are drunk (I've had some of the women I go drink with put their breasts on my phone mainly so I can get in trouble with my wife.)

 

[Areloch]

Well, maybe her freetime could be better utilized to raise awareness to improve those channels rather than stalking people? (I'm presuming something along the lines of stalking is involved. I don't know how she'd get the contact info for the sender's friends and family otherwise) That way not only she benefits in the end, but everyone, for any issue that'd go through those channels.

Actually, the attention this garners and the response it gets does benefit everyone in the end. Let's not pretend that one is going to benefit other people and the other isn't. People are gong to be less likely to whip their dicks out if they think there will be consequences.

It's possible I guess, but if we're being honest, if the person is socially inept enough to think that dick pics are a way to charm the ladies, I have major reservations about them thinking it through enough to think they'll be caught either.

I mean, there are WAY more extreme repercussions for hacking, swatting and the like. And these things are still perceived as 'hoaxes' as opposed to majorly damaging events and the people still do them because they don't think they'll be caught.

So I have a hard time believing that "I'll let your mom know what you're doing" will have enough of a bite to deter people from the line of logic that puts them to do this sort of thing in the first place.

This is also the sort of thing that leads to pressuring the powers that be into action, so let's not pretend that's an either/or scenario or that this can't bring about that sort of change.

You'll have to explain to me how this would lead to anyone actually working on improving reporting channels and police or whatever other service's handling of similar situations.

You say "lets not pretend", but I'm not pretending. I have a hard time seeing how this would apply any pressure at all. This entire thread has been people going "See, she found a workable solution. Go girl!". If her handling of it is perceived to be an effective remedy, why would there be any pressure at all to improve official channels?

Often, this sort of attention brings about change a lot faster than trying to pressure law enforcement or government bodies directly.

I would think bringing attention to how there's no good way to handle an unpleasant situation and pressuring law enforcement or government bodies is far more effective than going "it's cool guys, I figured it out" which would just encourage status quo to be maintained because hey, clearly she figured out how to handle the situation herself.

Self-serving vindictive vigilantism may work out for her, but the general issue isn't resolved, so I really can't see it as a net positive - thus, I can't see her behavior as 'how we should handle dick pics'.

The general issue hasn't been resolved by decades of going to the police over sexual harassment, or years of petitioning for change, yet you still advocate that.

So what we're saying is, if decades of going to the police hasn't encouraged change, someone going "I figured out the solution, it involves completely ignoring the police and taking matters into your own hands" will somehow get the police to get around to stepping up?

Because I have major doubts about that. Besides, I also seriously don't trust some random person on the internet to engage in a counter-tracking campaign to find a person online and shame them to their friends and family and never get it wrong. And she stands to do a heck of a lot of damage to a potentially innocent person if she makes a mistake and informs the wrong relations about dick pic'ing activity that the innocent guy never actually sent.

And again, I dunno how she's getting that information to contact and inform the sender's friends and family, but it feels like it's brushing REALLY close into stalking territory.

So in short: I don't believe this stands to be an effective deterrent, too much is at stake if she gets her information wrong, and I have questions about how she's getting her information as well. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

 

[Bat Vader]

If someone is willing to take a dick pic and send it to a random stranger the idiot that did it has no right to be offended or angry when they are shamed for doing it.

 

[DementedSheep]

Frankly, if it's a problem, she should be handling it through the proper channels.

Something mentioned a few times in this thread, and in the general discussion of this sort of thing, is how ineffective "proper channels" are.

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

 

[Areloch]

Frankly, if it's a problem, she should be handling it through the proper channels.

Something mentioned a few times in this thread, and in the general discussion of this sort of thing, is how ineffective "proper channels" are.

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

Well, if you're getting multiple dick pics from the same people, that's a fairly solid harassment case. If it bothers her enough to do something about it, pursuing that seems to be the reasonable course of action. Like any other similar crimes.

Alternatively, if this is happening through private messages on twitter, or some other social media, I'd presume that you could contact administrative/moderators to handle it.

 

[Chris Moses]

I really never understood this. As a man there is no way I would consider sending a picture of my penis to someone else. Unsolicited or otherwise. I just... why?

Never got a nude pic yourself, either?
I'm hoping for your sake it is because you're very young, even if the rest of your post doesn't make it look like you are.

Sending nude pics to your partner is fun and its super fucking arousing(for both). You're missing out.

It's also really stupid, as it's only one small step from your phone to the internet as a whole. It's so easy for a phone or computer to be hacked and for potentially embarrassing photos to be leaked, it's just better to never take them in the first place. A good rule of thumb is to never have anything you don't want the entire world to see on a device connected to the internet.

So I guess I am good to go since I have appeared nude live on stage via the musical "Hair". 20 years later and other instances of semi-public nudity later (including nude pictures over the internet), my life is far from ruined. I don't understand what the big deal is with nudity in the first place (as long as kids are not directly/purposely involved). I don't think s0denone is anymore stupid than you are a prude (and I think that is fine as long as you don't try to bully people into thinking like you do). Plenty of people share their nudity in various legal ways and it is not and should not be an issue.

OT: I can empathize with this woman's frustration, and I guess I don't mind when certain sleaze bags get called out, but I don't think every dick pic needs to end with someone losing their job or complete social disgrace.

 

[DementedSheep]

Frankly, if it's a problem, she should be handling it through the proper channels.

Something mentioned a few times in this thread, and in the general discussion of this sort of thing, is how ineffective "proper channels" are.

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

Well, if you're getting multiple dick pics from the same people, that's a fairly solid harassment case. If it bothers her enough to do something about it, pursuing that seems to be the reasonable course of action. Like any other similar crimes.

Alternatively, if this is happening through private messages on twitter, or some other social media, I'd presume that you could contact administrative/moderators to handle it.

But it's not usually just one guy repeatedly sending you dick picks, it's a whole bunch of guys sending you dick picks. Blocking them won't stop others sending them or them making another account. The police aren't going to do anything to a guy for sending a dick pick, since they usually do fuck all about IRL stalking and harassment even if it was multiple from the same guy harassing them the police are unlikely to do anything and they can't do anything unless they are in the same country. Moderators of sites could ban people who send dick picks but that's about it. Making a severe example of some so that anyone else will be worried that could happen to them as well is one of the few things that could actually work as discouragement.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's possible I guess, but if we're being honest, if the person is socially inept enough to think that dick pics are a way to charm the ladies, I have major reservations about them thinking it through enough to think they'll be caught either.

Apparently, this has had an impact. And, in fact, you have people flipping out not because it's ineffective, but because it's "shaming" and "Wrong." This, to me, says that it can work. Beyond that, cultural norms aren't the sort of things you think about until called out about them. This goes to the very heart of enforcing harassment: it's often treated as a "boys will be boys" thing. A lot of harassment is. Hell, a lot of shit that goes on beyond harassment is.

I mean, there are WAY more extreme repercussions for hacking, swatting and the like. And these things are still perceived as 'hoaxes' as opposed to majorly damaging events and the people still do them because they don't think they'll be caught.

And they likely won't be as is. Which is also why your "proper channels" line is so off-base. This, on the other hand,m brings in a real repercussion.

So I have a hard time believing that "I'll let your mom know what you're doing" will have enough of a bite to deter people from the line of logic that puts them to do this sort of thing in the first place.

Except people are extremely protective of that exact sort of thing. Otherwise, nobody would be bothered if they were caught masturbating. It's one thing to send a picture to someone, and another to have family see it or for it to go public.

You'll have to explain to me how this would lead to anyone actually working on improving reporting channels and police or whatever other service's handling of similar situations.

Because shit rarely gets done when attention isn't drawn to it? That seems like the most basic explanation, at least.

Political and legal change often happens slowly, or not at all, when you're dealing with social inertia (harassment in general suffers from this). The way you get change is by getting people to pay attention. The "proper channels" are already inclined to not do anything, so what you're saying is indistinguishable from "deal with it" in practice. It is the "white moderate" response.

This entire thread has been people going "See, she found a workable solution. Go girl!".

*looks at thread*

Yeah, we're not looking at the same thread, or you've just reduced every point to a strawman. I'm just not sure which at this point.

I would think bringing attention to how there's no good way to handle an unpleasant situation and pressuring law enforcement or government bodies is far more effective than going "it's cool guys, I figured it out" which would just encourage status quo to be maintained because hey, clearly she figured out how to handle the situation herself.

Yes, and rephrasing it so it's solely "it's cool guys, I figured it out" is totally above board.

So what we're saying is, if decades of going to the police hasn't encouraged change, someone going "I figured out the solution, it involves completely ignoring the police and taking matters into your own hands" will somehow get the police to get around to stepping up?

Be honest. Are you reading what people are saying? Because I'm curious how you keep turning this:

Until she stops getting inappropriate photos entirely, she?s happy to do what she can to raise awareness of this dickerrific brand of online harassment.

Into this:

"I figured out the solution, it involves completely ignoring the police and taking matters into your own hands"

Like, seriously. Should I just stop here? Like, if this is what you're going to offer, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to reply any further.

If you're actually interested in discussion, try actually paying attention to what's being said, not talking at and over people and insisting on strawmen.

I have trouble believing you're actually listening when you say stuff like this:

Well, if you're getting multiple dick pics from the same people, that's a fairly solid harassment case. If it bothers her enough to do something about it, pursuing that seems to be the reasonable course of action. Like any other similar crimes.

Alternatively, if this is happening through private messages on twitter, or some other social media, I'd presume that you could contact administrative/moderators to handle it.

I'm not sure you understand the reality of the situation. Multiple people are now trying to explain it, and you're balking at it because you're "sure" that the things people have already thought to try will work as if they've never occurred to us before.

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

And if yo do, how are they going to respond?

Hint: they're probably not.

The police don't necessarily respond to death threats, and we're supposed to find comfort in the idea that we can somehow protect ourselves by calling them over dick pics.

The unfortunate thing is you've already said this and I still feel a need to make this comment, because I don't think it's being heard.

 

[DementedSheep]

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

And if yo do, how are they going to respond?

Hint: they're probably not.

The police don't necessarily respond to death threats, and we're supposed to find comfort in the idea that we can somehow protect ourselves by calling them over dick pics.

The unfortunate thing is you've already said this and I still feel a need to make this comment, because I don't think it's being heard.

It seems like with situations like this a lot of people seem to have two settings; either it's a law enforcement issue or it's non-issue. There is big area of shitty behaviour and harassment that isn't feasible to be dealt with by police or other officials, isn't on its own bad enough to involve them or just simply isn't taken seriously at this time. That doesn't mean it's not a big issue for the person on the receiving end and that they should accept it as fact of life and take it quietly. If you have the means and will to start dealing with it (within reason of course) on your own then great, deal with it. You can't wait for there to be a reliable official channel to deal with everything.

 

[Areloch]

Edit:

Actually, never mind. This is a situation that realistically doesn't have a perfect solution, and any other solution is going to be messy, unpleasant, and prone to failure.

I'll just leave it at the fact that I'm disinclined towards people going off the shame people to get their way on the internet. It may be warranted in this case, but as a collective action, I'm sick of seeing it and thus I'm going to kinda react to it negatively in a general sense.

Beyond that, whatever. Do what you think you gotta do to be able to live your life, I guess.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I think it's an excellent endeavor. Men often feel they have the right to make whatever sexual advances they like without consequence because they have have some notion of "that's just what men do" (it's not, it's something that assholes do, but such people don't realize that because they, themselves, are assholes). However, there are consequences for actions, or at least should be. Creepy people who send unsolicited pictures of their genitals should face negative consequences because maybe it will discourage them from doing those things in the future.

Men are equated with assholes a lot. One would think more of them would object to such conflation.

I specifically said its not something all men do. I said, as you can see above, assholes do such things and then try to play it off as something that men just do. Assholes view sending unsolicited pictures of their genitals as their right as men. Good men do not do such things because they realize that it is not anybody's right to do so and because they realize it will almost certainly only distress the person it's sent to.

 

[EternallyBored]

What are the "proper channels" anyway? the police? who is going to ring the police over dick picks unless you have reason to think the person is actually around where you live.

And if yo do, how are they going to respond?

Hint: they're probably not.

The police don't necessarily respond to death threats, and we're supposed to find comfort in the idea that we can somehow protect ourselves by calling them over dick pics.

The unfortunate thing is you've already said this and I still feel a need to make this comment, because I don't think it's being heard.

Even if they did care, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Government having the kind of power and scope necessary to do so, and I say that as a bureaucrat that works for the Government. You would need a lot of people to track down someone every time a dick pic is being reported, especially if the person is in another state, the FBI has far more important things to do than arresting people across state lines for misdemeanors, if you didn't involve the FBI then you would be talking about local police communicating across state lines, which they have enough trouble doing so with felonies much less something like this. If it's someone from another country, then there are no proper authorities.

Even if you could get them to care, in some cases the "proper authorities" will just make the situation worse, getting fucked by the American Court system is leagues worse than being outed as a sleazeball to your parents. Especially if you run afoul of any sex offenses, which could very well be levied in some states for sending lewd pictures unsolicited, and while shaming can be argued as to how ethical or effective it is, I think getting someone put on a sex offender list for a dick pic would be far worse than anything the woman is doing. The authorities are great for some things, but for a situation like this, they don't have the resources or personnel to do anything, and giving them the tools to be any help would probably do more harm to the situation than it would fix, the authorities have a tendency to be much more heavy handed than anything being done here. A face book call out can be embarrassing, but its much easier to explain that to an employer than a criminal record.

 

[DementedSheep]

To be sure, there's absolutely no magical "this will fix everything solution".

I'm just reaaaaal tired of internet vigilante justice and seeing it condoned here rubs me the wrong way when it's balked at in other places.

Opinions will vary but I think sending the pictures to people they know like their girlfriend and mother, and making it known you do this is fair enough. What I don't like with internet vigilantism is when they start spreading their name and face everywhere, obsessively archiving everything so it can be repeatedly brought up and tracking accounts because then people can get dogpiled for a dumb decision and something they did while in a bad space.