You seem quite open to the ideas I put forwards and willing to understand them. Thank you.BiscuitTrouser said:Well to you id call myself an equalist because you use feminism in a way I dont. My language is fluid depending on who im talking to. Personally I think feminism is centered on the fact the patriarchy (Which i define as a set of sociatal values based on defining what a man(tm) should be, a man shouldnt cry, a man shouldnt cook, a man works ect) causes a lot of the problems for both men and women. I think the patriarchy (Which AGAIN is a set of societal values propagated by men telling other men what they should measure up to and by extension telling them to NOT be like women because women are lesser) hurts men equally as it does women. I see no problem calling the movement to de construct these random unnecessary social standards feminism. Its a little poetic seeing as this set of standards pretty much uses the general rule of "If a man does ANYTHING we usually assign to women it is weak and bad". I think a core part of femenism is that it shouldnt be frowned upon or hated for a man to act in a way traditionally womanly. Thus i dont see any reason to call the fight for my ability to enjoy baking without being seen as "weak" or "Not into MANLY interests" feminism. It's my fight too to be allowed access to the things men previously have been steered away from because they BELONGED to the "weaker" caste of "women". Similarly it has a duel purpose in spearheading the idea women have as much right as men to take part in and enjoy "manly" activities and roles without judgement.Single Shot said:But by calling yourself feminism you align yourself to the most vocal aspects of the group. This is simply because the most vocal parts are the most public. So by calling yourself a feminist you add a number to the perceived acceptance of the group, and thus it's most vocal/extreme parts becaue it's most vocal parts are also the most extreme.
An extreme organisation with 100commited members is a fringe, an organization with an extreme voice of the same 100 but a total of 100,000 members (even if said members are quietly mumbling about equality to themselves) is something else entirely.
You have to see that FEMinismis a female-centric view of the equality issue, and that's what breeds the anti-male subculture. It's not the majority of feminists that believe that, but they are the most vocal.
But hey if you dont see how thats fitting at all im happy to swap to equalism when talking about it with you. The word really accounts for NONE of my opinion. And if peoples think me using a handy word to describe my views means i have anything to do with the same people who might try and use that label to describe an OBVIOUSLY different view thats just stupid and they are within their right to consider me something else entirely.
I also see the problems caused by what you chose to term as 'patriarchy' (I'd use a different term for social standards but you agreed to use equalism so I'll make a concession too.), but I also see the problems inherent in the solutions feminism has provided.
Employment quota's create jobs that can never be filled my men because an office is already at it's limit, this also creates social splits in offices between those seen as employed to fill a quota, and those who are actually the est fit for the job.
Child custody is bias towards women because early feminism fought for that change, but men still have the responsibility for financial care because early feminism didn't want that responsibility.
Men can still be abused by their female partners in relationships because feminism got "the size and muscular stature" of the abuser written into the abuse laws. Feminist groups also campaign and argue against help centres for male victims (making themselves the most vocal parts of the feminist community around the issue)
These and other reasons are what I have a problem with, and why I cannot in good conscience call myself a feminist despite the constant reminder that I agree with most of what they say at the very moderate level to some extent.
You seem to believe in true equality though, so I will respect whatever you choose to call yourself as long as you respect my right to call out the more vocal and extreme sections of your claimed movement.