It Doesn't Matter

[infinity_turtles]

I'm probably a minority in this, and honestly not much a movie person in the first place, but I tend to enjoy movies more for the settings and occasionally characters they establish then anything that happens to them. The context more then the substance. While I'm not likely to gripe about such and such not being realistic, plot holes and inconsistencies I realize later often... for lack of a better word taint the enjoyment I might've had with it earlier. So I find them a bit important, and am thankful when I know to avoid a movie because of them, as there's few things that illicit the same sort of disappointment as watching a movie, loving it, watching it again and coming away frustrated with it's flaws. Those who nitpick the things you only notice when paying close attention on multiple viewings can be helpful to some people.

 

[Jacob.pederson]

As a huge fan of MS3TK, Unskippable, and yes, even Spoony, I would argue that it is possible appreciate the inspired real-time intellectual assault on a movie AND the movie itself (though not at the same time). I consider Wizard people dear reader to be one the the greatest comedic achievements of our times; however, Harry Potter is pretty good too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_People,_Dear_Reader

 

[Ashley Blalock]

I think that maybe we are starting to see the backlash against the idea that you have to turn you brain off to enjoy a movie. I know I've gotten tired of people saying the reason I didn't enjoy some Hollywood big, loud, and stupid film was because I dared to think during the movie.

I shouldn't have to leave my brain in the car because I've seen outrageous stuff in movies that test my suspension of disbelief, but with good film making I can say oh what the heck that spaceship can somehow bank in space. Sure movie make me think the impossible can happen but don't assume that people buying a ticket are stupid.

 

[heaton101]

I find it ironic that the man who nitpicked The Amazing Spider-Man to death is now criticizing someone else for nitpicking movies to death. Not saying he's a hypocrite; just making a point. Good article otherwise.

 

[JudgeGame]

I think the concept of "movies are supposed to be experienced a certain way" is flawed. Surely, every moviemaker wants their movie to be experienced a different way and sometimes the audience (critics included) decide not to play on the moviemaker's terms at which point the moviemaker can only go and eat shit. Ultimately, everyone can experience anything however they want and everybody can expect other people to experience different way and in the end none of this makes any difference to the resulting experience. That's one existential can of worms that just got open.

 

[Thespian]

Bob I have to say this article really felt like a cloaked attempt to voice your dislike of CinemaSins. And a really misguided one at that.

Your points would all, of course, be totally valid if "Everything Wrong with _________ in three minutes" was a legitimate review show. It isn't. It is a video series that pokes fun at fridge logic, by definition. I'm positive that those who make the videos generally like the movie because, y'know, you'd have to in order to notice everything.

Other than that, yes, I get it. Tbh I think the video to explain it best is


When MrBTongue talks about Narrative Cohesiveness. That basically sums it up. When there are enough plot holes/inconsistencies that they hinder your enjoyment of the story, then it's a problem. For example, I thought this happened in the Dark Knight Rises. It got to a point where I lost interest in such a nonsensical narrative. However, poking fun at the stuff in Avengers is good because it doesn't bother you during the film.

 

[PissOffRoth]

My old roommate was basically a walking Cinema Sins. He actively tried to compete with any movie he saw, picking up on any excuse to tear any movie off of any pedestal he thought it might have been on and then wondered why nobody liked watching movies with him. I don't talk to him anymore, but i sure hope he never finds out about Cinema Sins.

He's probably the person that runs the website.

 

[SimGrave]

"some of them are really a stretch"... hahaha... saying this cause they were really spot on on the Avengers!
Super Heroes pretending to use headsets... face it... it was a bad movie... with one of the worst villains.
See to me the fact that they created a build up of 5 movies before doing the Avengers was not enough for me to appreciate it. It was bad. Yes it's a first in cinema history... but even with that in mind... it's hard to appreciate the movie for what it is in front of your eyes. Anyway... they nitpick errors and non sense in movies... they don't say the movies are bad, or that you are stupid to like these movie. Just pointing out stuff that made no sense. And now it's up to everybody else to decide if they are bothered by that or not.

 

[Kuomon]

I don't care if some people read it as condescending, THIS is the kind of writing and insight I enjoy the most from MovieBob and I really wish he would spend more time doing this sort of thing. Succinctly written and an important lesson that a lot of us need to get and would probably never have access to otherwise.

 

[bificommander]

I've recently found both Honest Trailers and Cinema sins, and I must say, I enjoy both. If the message of Cinema Sins is 'because of this list of plot holes, the films suck and really deserve to go to hell', it sure as hell doesn't come across to me. With such 'sins' as 'Scene does not contain lapdance', it's pretty obvious they don't take themselves too seriously.

To me, it seems they're just making jokes about movies. What's so bad about that? Yeah, I wouldn't recommend acting this nitpicky while or before watching the movie. (Hence why I haven't seen the Looper video, I still mean to watch that one) But after the movie is over, why not crack a few jokes about the silly things in it?

 

[gorfias]

you have to draw a line between "reasonable" and "unreasonable" suspension of disbelif

This. Looper is a movie that asks you to believe a lot. For this sins episode to make fun of time travel is low hanging fruit.


I just saw Die Hard 5. It is a mess. It isn't just that there are plot holes but that there is no logic to the movie at all.

Some things will take you out of the picture they're so bad. The Dark Knight is probably my all time favorite at this time. But when Batman "saves" Rachael by falling off a building with her, I'm thinking, "WTF?" Luckily, I was able to move past that enjoy the movie.

But if you're going to complain that Iron Man would just be a lot of goo inside the iron suit after being hit by things the Iron can withstand, but a human cannot, I think you have some work to do on suspending disbelief. You're missing out on the logic of the movie itself, and the good time it provides.

 

[maninahat]

No, my problem with Prometheus is that the characters in question were so thin and their motivations so vague and ill-defined that my mind had nowhere else to go but to linger on how little sense everyone's behavior was making.

That's it exactly. Prometheus wanted me to care about its characters when it hadn't done any work to make me do so. Alien, on the other hand, made sure I'd gotten to know and even care about the Nostromo crew so when they start doing stupid things, I had a lot more empathy for them.

Yeah, it's like in The Thing: again, like Alien, its basically a slasher movie with a vaguely justified sci-fi premise, but you can accept character flaws and even characters acting stupid, because they feel grounded and relatable enough to make sense.

Take this character from Alien:

She spends the entire movie panicking, sobbing and getting in the way. That sort of thing would take you out of the movie in poorer films, but due to good characterisation and a well established situation, you can easily accept that, yes, some people would be this useless. It feels far less frustrating than when a poorly established character in Prometheus blunders into a deadly situation and makes all the worst decisions.

 

[maninahat]

As a huge fan of MS3TK, Unskippable, and yes, even Spoony, I would argue that it is possible appreciate the inspired real-time intellectual assault on a movie AND the movie itself (though not at the same time). I consider Wizard people dear reader to be one the the greatest comedic achievements of our times; however, Harry Potter is pretty good too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_People,_Dear_Reader

That's less about nit-picking and more about riffing though. They both involve combing through a movie to look for things to complain about, but the latter is about poking some good natured fun whilst still enjoying movie, whilst the former is just about showing off at the expense of the movie.

 

[bificommander]

That's less about nit-picking and more about riffing though. They both involve combing through a movie to look for things to complain about, but the latter is about poking some good natured fun whilst still enjoying movie, whilst the former is just about showing off at the expense of the movie.

Kindly explain to me what makes 'Everything wrong with ... in X minutes or less' nitpicking while Spoony or ThatGuyWithTheGlasses are riffing. It just seems like a different style of going through all the weird bits in the movie and making jokes about them, namely by listing them off in rapid succession. I don't see what Cinema Sins is doing as something other than 'poking some good natured fun'. They might not like every movie they reviewed (though I think they actually did enjoy some of them), but have you seen Spoony during his 'Ultima IX' review?

And as far as MST3K goes, I find that Bob's comment about watching movies the wrong way would apply to that show much more than to Cinema Sins. MST3K is supposed to be how you watch the entire movie, with snipping comments talking over the movie. Funny comments perhaps, but still. Cinema Sins is supposed to be watched in a few minutes after you've seen the movie. It doesn't need to affect how you watch the movie proper. I see in now way implied that Cinema Sins encourages you to make a mental list of sins while you're watching any movie.

I really don't get Bob's problem with CS, while loving MST3K for doing explicitly what he accuses CS from allegedly endorsing implicitly.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

When MrBTongue talks about Narrative Cohesiveness.

That's awesome. Thanks for the link. The way he conveys his point there is really excellent.

 

[maninahat]

That's less about nit-picking and more about riffing though. They both involve combing through a movie to look for things to complain about, but the latter is about poking some good natured fun whilst still enjoying movie, whilst the former is just about showing off at the expense of the movie.

Kindly explain to me what makes 'Everything wrong with ... in X minutes or less' nitpicking while Spoony or ThatGuyWithTheGlasses are riffing. It just seems like a different style of going through all the weird bits in the movie and making jokes about them, namely by listing them off in rapid succession. I don't see what Cinema Sins is doing as something other than 'poking some good natured fun'.

I suppose what counts as good natured fun riffing and nitpicking is whether I'm having fun as the viewer. With Cinema Sins I'm not, and that's mostly down to somewhat uninspired comedy writing, which feels less like jokes and more like lists of alleged mistakes. The purpose of these movie criticisms is to provide entertainment whilst educating me on the flaws, but Cinema Sins does neither, which leads me to conclude that he has achieved nothing beyond nitpicking.

I agree that Spoony's most recent reviews have felt a little like this too, but generally, the fun is to be had in how upset Spoony gets, or in how cleverly Spoony can mock the problem - which was certainly the case in his older reviews.

 

[Tohoya]

I agree that what a film makes you feel during it is the most important thing, but some of us are more analytical than others. Some of us consume media in order to feel something, and some of us use it to sharpen our ability to logically think through complex systems. Obviously, speculative fiction and hard sci-fi are the best places to exercise this, but other forms of media can work for it, as well. You don't make a compelling argument for why your way of reacting to a film is more genuine than mine.

 

[Covarr]

I think this largely depends on what kind of story the film is attempting to tell. Small mistakes stand out a lot more in something that presents itself as "smart" like The Da Vinci Code or National Treasure than in something that never pretends to be anything other than what it is, like Independence Day. As a rule of thumb, if you can't write an aspect of your story well, minimize it instead of trying to fake it. Audiences can readily detect bullshit, but they'll generally ignore it if there's not very much.

P.S. Thanks