It's been confirmed; Xbox one wil block used games.

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Talshere

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
The answer to that is for the publishers to cut their prices to be more in line with DVDs. There's a little thing called the right (yes, right) of first sale that they're trying to do away with. It basically says, once you've sold something, it's no longer yours. Don't bother with the copyright/licensing thing. That's all BS too, because the protection the publishers claim they need the license for is already covered by copyright; the purchase of a copy does not confer the right to make more copies. That's why it's called "copyright."

Captcha: make a bee-line: Yes, Captcha, I have a feeling consumers will be doing that, in the opposite direction from Microsoft's new product.
If your brining it more in like with DVD's then you need an 18 month period at release where the studio pub has virtually full control as the game can only be played in 3 hr stints at registered cyber cafes for $10 a pop.

This continuing analogy with the film industry have to stop. Yes, pubs are wankers just like the studios but the nature of the industries are fundamentally different.

Admittedly we might be able to do away with this 45 min token campaign mode and get some serious story driven content back into our AAA titles.
 

WeepingAngels

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Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
It doesn't matter how quick the turn around is, it's about the game industry not being special. If Paramount can't cash in on used DVD sales, then neither should game companies.

Think about it, what if everything sold used followed those rules. Cars, appliances, furniture, etc...
Generally car manufactures continue to make money of their products because A) there is status in having a car new, which is never guna happen in gaming. B) Car manufactures continue to make money on parts long after the sale of the original vehicle. C) 2nd hand cars rarely retail for more than 50% of their original purchase price. They depreciate massively the moment they leave the show room, because of the aforementioned status thing.

If every time a game for the ONE got a disk scratched you had to pay the pub's $1 to fit it, while Im sure they would still like a slice of the $50 2nd hand retail its still a damned sight more than they see atm. I can not think of a single other industry or product where an item, bought, returned 2 days later can be sold for virtually the same price while retaining its "boxed new" status.
None of this matters. This is really quite simple. You sell a product and you no longer own it and therefore don't get anything if the new owner sells it.

Having a copyright doesn't mean you get resell money either, it just means that you have the legal right to make copies. I'll say it again, the game industry is not special.

Let me just add that next week a new Doctor Who Blu Ray comes out and I have it pre-ordered, Season 7 Disk 2. There is nothing stopping me from watching all the episodes on release day and then selling it that same day. The BBC wouldn't hold their hand out asking for some of the resell money and neither should game companies. However, if game companies were to get a cut of the resell money, it wouldn't be long before everyone else wanted to the do the same and the First Sale Doctrine would become meaningless.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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Talshere said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Talshere said:
WeepingAngels said:
Talshere said:
Imper1um said:
Whoo, looks like PS4 is going to get a boost in sales by this announcement. haha

Nah they will do the same. This has been a long time coming.

Ultimately, the blame lies on Gamestop, Game, Gamestation etc. who refused to let the pub's in on the 2nd hand market. Now they will pay the price for their greed.
Right and Paramount should get a cut when I sell a DVD?

The blame lies on greedy publishers who want to get paid for used sales. If any blame lies on Gamestop it's because they sat on their thumbs and watched this happen on a smaller scale with online passes. Even now they have an ad for Xbox One on their website.
I understand where your coming from with that, typically people dont buy DVD's with the intention of selling them 2nd hand within 1 or 2 weeks. Or in some cases days. Most people hold on to DVD's for at least a few years, well after anyone who is willing to pay a new game price has done. Atm there is very little reason to buy a game new. You wait 2 days and you can pick it up at a $10 mark down.
The answer to that is for the publishers to cut their prices to be more in line with DVDs. There's a little thing called the right (yes, right) of first sale that they're trying to do away with. It basically says, once you've sold something, it's no longer yours. Don't bother with the copyright/licensing thing. That's all BS too, because the protection the publishers claim they need the license for is already covered by copyright; the purchase of a copy does not confer the right to make more copies. That's why it's called "copyright."

Captcha: make a bee-line: Yes, Captcha, I have a feeling consumers will be doing that, in the opposite direction from Microsoft's new product.
If your brining it more in like with DVD's then you need an 18 month period at release where the studio pub has virtually full control as the game can only be played in 3 hr stints at registered cyber cafes for $10 a pop.

This continuing analogy with the film industry have to stop. Yes, pubs are wankers just like the studios but the nature of the industries are fundamentally different.

Admittedly we might be able to do away with this 45 min token campaign mode and get some serious story driven content back into our AAA titles.
Never heard of direct to DVD films? Or major movies that only made a profit after the home video release? The analogy is actually pretty damn near perfect, because it's an entertainment product made in a similar way (although games cost less to make than Hollywood movies, sensationalist "news" stories to the contrary), sold in a similar way, and consumed in a similar way. The theatrical release is a red herring -- the point is that the studios are pricing their customers out of the market by charging $60 a pop. There's something like 100 million consoles in the US alone, yet 6 million copies sold /worldwide/ is just about unheard of. Because consumers can't afford it, unlike the way they can films.
 

Talshere

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Never heard of direct to DVD films? Or major movies that only made a profit after the home video release? The analogy is actually pretty damn near perfect, because it's an entertainment product made in a similar way (although games cost less to make than Hollywood movies, sensationalist "news" stories to the contrary), sold in a similar way, and consumed in a similar way. The theatrical release is a red herring -- the point is that the studios are pricing their customers out of the market by charging $60 a pop. There's something like 100 million consoles in the US alone, yet 6 million copies sold /worldwide/ is just about unheard of. Because consumers can't afford it, unlike the way they can films.
Studios generally take a loss on direct to DVD and they do it when they realise theyve pumped money into something thats crap. The major difference being the film industry can soak a few terrible films, not least because its very rare to have a big budget release flop like that. It tends to be the moderate or cheap ones like 3 stooges.

While you may think they are analogous due to the similar nature the way we consume them is fundamentally different. It is incredibly rare once a sequel is released in the games industry to sell any of the previous title unless its a landmark game. While the release of a sequel film can actually BOOST the sales of a previous film. When LOTR:ROTK came out at my cinema, they spent the whole month prior screening TFOTR and TTT.

Similarly, we rarely go back and revisit games series of the past unless again its an icon, even if its up in the bargin bin for $2 due to the lack of availability to play it and the depreciation of the visuals. It takes a truly masterful game to overcome even 5 years of graphical ageing. Yet if you see an old film in a bargain big we dont really think anything of picking it up. If you saw Grease or Diehard, maybe The Last Starfighter, or just some random film that you liked the box art of, or has an actor you recognise, if you were in the mood youd pick it up for a chill viewing with some popcorn and a quietly suffering significant other.

This NEVER happens with games. We consume them in very different ways.

That being said I DO agree with you that console games are WAY over priced. Here in the UK you can expect to pay £45 ($68.27), while PC games rarely set you back more than £35 ($53.10) and usually can be had new for £30 ($45.51). It is criminal but half of that is the 1st parties fault for licencing costs. Small studios dont pay paramount to make a big budget film, paramount backs the studio for a share. Yet this is effectively the relationship between the 1st party and publishers, especially if you want your release to be cross platform.

The whole industry is broken and it starts with the 1st parties inability to make money on their consoles through sales.
 

mrhappy1489

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Bernzz said:
I just wanna point out that this happened:


And as for blocking used games? And really, their entire reveal? Sony's won this generation, hands fucking down.
You do realise that that is a fucking minuscule drop in microsoft shares don't you, though I'll admit the sony jump is very impressive. I've already decided to go PC, I'm just waiting for the money so this doesn't really affect me at all.
 

NoeL

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WeepingAngels said:
Let me break it down like this:

Person A buys game new. Installs it and has it added to his Live account (just like Steam).
Person A sells game to Gamestop.
Person B buys used game
Person B has to buy a pass to play the game and then has it added to his Live account.

On and on and on.... It's a system wide online pass system. Whether person A can continue to play the game is anyone's guess. Maybe the game will be deactivated on their account the next time they go online.
Given the process registers the buyer as the new owner of the game I wouldn't be surprised at all if the previous owner loses access to it. Surely the disc would have a traceable serial number or something.

Anyway, this article has a little more info:
http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

If you take a game you own to a friend's place you can play the game on your XBL account as normal, but if your friend wants to log in with their account they have to pay - wait for it - full retail price! Even if you're sitting their with the physical disc.

Microsoft say they have an as-yet-unannounced system in place for trading/selling games, so if you want to lend the game to a friend you'll probably have to log in and trade the "right" to play the game to them. Whether or not this will cost you is anyone's guess, but if they charge for it it'll be fucking disgusting.

Captcha: path less taken. And with good reason!
 

Innegativeion

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Dexter111 said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
How cute, you still think that Nintendo remains in the race. <3 xD

Sony will get all the good non-nintendo-1st-party exclusives, and make lots of money,


Nintendo will finally release all their 1st party titles,


and everyone will be SO FUCKING SHOCKED that nintendo continues to make lots of money. Like people who are shocked when a jack comes out of a jack-in-the-box.
 

Evil Smurf

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Innegativeion said:
Dexter111 said:
j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
How cute, you still think that Nintendo remains in the race. <3 xD

Sony will get all the good non-nintendo-1st-party exclusives, and make lots of money,


Nintendo will finally release all their 1st party titles,


and everyone will be SO FUCKING SHOCKED that nintendo continues to make lots of money. Like people who are shocked when a jack comes out of a jack-in-the-box.
I think the WiiU is the best new console. But I'll not buy on when I only use my laptop.
 

bug_of_war

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As I said in the Live Reveal thread, just looks like this three horse race got knocked down to two.
While I'm normally one for waiting till the end of something's lifecycle before stating it's success or failure, it looks as though the Playstation 4 has this hands down. The Wii U hasn't done nearly as well as the Wii and whilst you can't believe the loudest people are the majority I do feel as though PS4 just has the edge over the Xbox One. It'll be interesting to see the actual figures after PS4 and Xbone are released for a year or so.
 

Requia

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Shameless said:
According to This [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/] article.

The new xbox will require a fee for you to play pre-owned games...

Oh fuck off Microsoft !
Microsoft has said this is false.
 

Agayek

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
EA dropped their Online Pass system, and now it turns out that the new Xbox is going to charge for used games as standard.

I fucking knew something like this was in the works.
EA never dropped the Online Passes. They just renamed it. Instead of "Online Pass", it was "Deluxe Edition" or whatever bullshit they use. It's mentioned in one of the Jimquisitions about Dead Space 3.

They're still selling you a steaming pile of bullshit, they're just calling it pudding.
 

Yopaz

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
ToastiestZombie said:
Isn't it a bit fishy that the new of EA partnering with Microsoft is in such close proximity to this news? I smell a conspiracy.
EA dropped their Online Pass system, and now it turns out that the new Xbox is going to charge for used games as standard.

I fucking knew something like this was in the works.
You know... I remember roughly what your comment in the article about EA dropping online passes and well, it seems like that post was spot on.

OT: You should change the title of the thread, it's kinda misleading/inaccurate since they wont block used game, but charge for the use of them. They are making it so that buying used games are more expensive than new games so it's some grade A bullshit right there though.

Now let's read what the article says. They will charge a fee for playing second hand games. OK, I can grudgingly accept that... The fee will be the same as for a brand new game... wait WHAT?! I have to pay the price of a brand new game to play a used one on top of what it cost to buy the used game? What the fuck are you thinking Microsoft?

It will uninstall from the first console once you install it on the new one? Despite that technically it's been paid for twice?

The only "good" thing I read in this article is that they do allow people to bring the games to friends and play on their console without the fee as long as you sign in to your own account. Now these news have gone from being shit to being shit with sprinkles on it. Not the good kind of sprinkles though.
 

waj9876

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Now all Sony has to do is not shoot themselves in the foot, and they'll be top dog this generation. And now the Wii U seems a lot better now that this has been revealed. I'm going with Nintendo and Sony this generation. Like I do every generation.

Speaking of dogs, there was one good thing that came out of this conference. Collar Duty. Look it up. It's amazing.
 

LT Cannibal 68

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Shameless said:
According to This [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/407912/microsoft-confirms-pre-owned-fee-for-xbox-one/] article.

The new xbox will require a fee for you to play pre-owned games...

Oh fuck off Microsoft !
because that's speculation it isn't confirmed in the least they're going off a wired article, how about this for an idea?
you buy your game new and you get your cd key because that's what it is, and you put it in and you can play the game with no disc but if for example you lend a friend the game it installs normally but he still needs the disk? That is how i'd do it.

EDIT: straight from GS president
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2013/05/21/gamestop-president-tony-bartel-talks-xbox-one-playstation-4-used-games-and-pre-orders/

EDIT 2: IT'S CONFIRMED NO FEE STRAIGHT FROM MICROSOFT. the article you posted has been debunked, put down your pitchforks lads.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-always-on-drm-used-games-faq/
 

VoidWanderer

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To think... if Microsoft hadn't changed their CPU technology, because Sony certainly showed how well it worked for the PS3, and allowed backwards compatibility, they could've won this...

I am glad I wasn't going to bother pre-ordering the Xbox1, especially now!
 

Gothproxy

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Microsoft has until the launch of the Xbox One to either do away with the used game fee or, as some here have suggested, allow the game to play from the disc but charge if you want to play strictly from the HDD (with a used copy). Otherwise, this is going to blow up so badly in their faces Microsoft will think they are Atari from the 80s.

No gamer that I know (and I work at a GameStop...part-time) will buy this. I wont buy this. Why? Because in the past couple of years, games have been hit or miss as to whether they are good or outright crap (with most of the time being 'meh'). I will not buy a game at $60 (or probably more is what I'm sensing) if there is the slightest chance that it will be crap. All the pre-rendered game play videos, reviews, magazine articles will mean NOTHING to me if I have to gamble with my money on an overpriced game that I can't return or trade or sell or whatever if it does turn out to be lousy.

Now, if and when I decide to jump into the next generation of consoles (and just because I work at a GameStop doesn't mean I will), I'm leaning towards the PS4....but only if they enable that cloud service that will allow me to buy (reduced price) PSone, PS2, etc games and play. Sorry Nintendo but the WiiU just isn't up to snuff (unless the rumored SMT x Fire Emblem game comes out for it and then....maybe). And Xbox? Sorry, old boy but your daddy done screwed up big time.

Come to think of it...now that I'll be saving so much money by NOT buying an Xbox One, maybe I'll get that PSVita to go along with the PS4....hmmm.
 

Gothproxy

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LT Cannibal 68 said:
EDIT 2: IT'S CONFIRMED NO FEE STRAIGHT FROM MICROSOFT. the article you posted has been debunked, put down your pitchforks lads.
And where did you find out this info? Post a link? (a reliable link?)
 

Distance_warrior

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This makes no sense whatsoever. Not even to stem used game sales. There is now nothing stopping people from buying the game used paying the fee then returning for a full refund. What I think will happen is brick and mortar games store will drop the full refund to a 75% refund. This will essentially mean that even with new games the same price as used they will still be 50% cheaper and not a cent of that will go to developers.

No one will build games for it because the devs will get paid for 1 copy that then is installed on 50 consoles. there is no way they could make a profit.
 

LT Cannibal 68

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Gothproxy said:
LT Cannibal 68 said:
EDIT 2: IT'S CONFIRMED NO FEE STRAIGHT FROM MICROSOFT. the article you posted has been debunked, put down your pitchforks lads.
And where did you find out this info? Post a link? (a reliable link?)
eited my post sorry forgot to add link lol