It's ok to be angry about capitalism

Gordon_4

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Corporate lawyers are demonically evil.
https://wdwnt.com/2024/08/disney-dismissal-wrongful-death-lawsuit/

In the latest update for the Disney Springs wrongful death lawsuit, Disney cited legal language within the terms and conditions for Disney+, which “requires users to arbitrate all disputes with the company.” Disney claims Piccolo reportedly agreed to this in 2019 when signing up for a one-month free trial of the streaming service on his PlayStation console.

In the May 31 motion filed to move the wrongful death lawsuit to arbitration, Disney attorneys said that the Disney+ subscriber agreement states that any dispute, except for small claims, “must be resolved by individual binding arbitration.” Disney says that similar language was agreed to by Piccolo when he used the My Disney Experience app to purchase tickets to visit EPCOT at Walt Disney World in September 2023.
Its not often I come across a situation worthy of the word diabolical, but, this would certainly be that.
 

Agema

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Its not often I come across a situation worthy of the word diabolical, but, this would certainly be that.
It's interesting. In terms of PR, it's a horror show, although perhaps Disney is almost unassailable in that regard. Given the sum of money involved (tiny, for someone's death), the case is probably more expensive to fight than to just make the payout, so I would guess Disney wants to test the point.

However, the idea that you can sign up to a Disney product and forgo any ability to bypass arbitration to sue them seems absurd and outrageous, particularly when extending from one area of delivered service (e.g. streaming) to another (visiting a park). One the other hand, legal commentary seems to think the courts will close that argument right down, or at minimum severely constrain it in some way.
 

Gordon_4

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It's interesting. In terms of PR, it's a horror show, although perhaps Disney is almost unassailable in that regard. Given the sum of money involved (tiny, for someone's death), the case is probably more expensive to fight than to just make the payout, so I would guess Disney wants to test the point.

However, the idea that you can sign up to a Disney product and forgo any ability to bypass arbitration to sue them seems absurd and outrageous, particularly when extending from one area of delivered service (e.g. streaming) to another (visiting a park). One the other hand, legal commentary seems to think the courts will close that argument right down, or at minimum severely constrain it in some way.
It’s probably one of those ideas that when said to a lay person sounds incredibly stupid and that the difference should be self evident. Then people with actual legal education start making funny noises and flicking through books and realise that if someone smart enough makes a compelling enough argument, it might stand.
 

Agema

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It’s probably one of those ideas that when said to a lay person sounds incredibly stupid and that the difference should be self evident. Then people with actual legal education start making funny noises and flicking through books and realise that if someone smart enough makes a compelling enough argument, it might stand.
Honestly, I don't think a company should be permitted to put that sort of provision (waiving a right to sue) in the small print to customers under any circumstance.

I would take the view that for small purchases by the general public, the expectation can be made that a customer will not read the small print, and therefore a legal onus must lie with the company to be reasonable. In a court case, the burden lies on the company to demonstrate that whatever item that they wish to enforce is reasonable, proportionate, and relevant. So for instance if they want to slip in a measure that they think is not, they would need to do something to draw specific attention to it (e.g. a tick box).
 

Seanchaidh

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Honestly, I don't think a company should be permitted to put that sort of provision (waiving a right to sue) in the small print to customers under any circumstance.
or even in large print, really...
 

Agema

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Agema

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So, not exactly the ideal thread, but...

Mike Lynch is (was) a British tech entrepreneur who created a company called Autonomy, which way back when was bought by Hewlett-Packard for ~$11 billion. However, HP shortly after had to write down $9 billion on its new purchase due to alleged accounting irregularities. Lynch was later extradited and tried for fraud, being acquitted in June 2024. Then...


And then it also turned out:


Sure, this is almost certainly coincidence, but it's the sort of thing that can't help but make you wonder...
 

Drathnoxis

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Corporate lawyers are demonically evil.
https://wdwnt.com/2024/08/disney-dismissal-wrongful-death-lawsuit/

In the latest update for the Disney Springs wrongful death lawsuit, Disney cited legal language within the terms and conditions for Disney+, which “requires users to arbitrate all disputes with the company.” Disney claims Piccolo reportedly agreed to this in 2019 when signing up for a one-month free trial of the streaming service on his PlayStation console.

In the May 31 motion filed to move the wrongful death lawsuit to arbitration, Disney attorneys said that the Disney+ subscriber agreement states that any dispute, except for small claims, “must be resolved by individual binding arbitration.” Disney says that similar language was agreed to by Piccolo when he used the My Disney Experience app to purchase tickets to visit EPCOT at Walt Disney World in September 2023.
So it's been a month, did it go to arbitration or what?
 

Schadrach

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Disney dropped their motion.
To be fair, they just didn't want to spend the lawyer money to be involved in a trial that they'll probably win because they don't own or control the restaurant in question. They dropped it because of the bad PR. They're being sued because of three things:
  1. They're the landlord for the restaurant.
  2. They advertise the restaurant on their website, including that it claims to be able to accommodate allergies (and they'll likely claim that that information was supplied to them by the restaurant).
  3. They have extremely deep pockets.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Very informative clearly communicated interview. Educated British lady voice may help too, is not often I hear such issues laid out so matter-as-factly (factly is word now, shuddup!)


Happy Monday! Sam speaks with Grace Blakeley, English economics & politics commentator, staff writer at Tribune, to discuss her recent book Vulture Capitalism: Corporate Crimes, Backdoor Bailouts, and the Death of Freedom.

Follow Grace on Twitter here: https://x.com/graceblakeley/

Check out Vulture Capitalism here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/book...
If it don't start at intended intro of interview, then 25th minute is the stamptime
 
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Honestly, I don't think a company should be permitted to put that sort of provision (waiving a right to sue) in the small print to customers under any circumstance.

I would take the view that for small purchases by the general public, the expectation can be made that a customer will not read the small print, and therefore a legal onus must lie with the company to be reasonable. In a court case, the burden lies on the company to demonstrate that whatever item that they wish to enforce is reasonable, proportionate, and relevant. So for instance if they want to slip in a measure that they think is not, they would need to do something to draw specific attention to it (e.g. a tick box).
Guess that why they say the devil’s in the details.