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Silvanus

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You should probably let the US government know then, they never found any.
Don't worry, the authorities are well aware. This is why Giuliani is the likely "co-conspirator" in Trump's third indictment; why Giuliani was indicted on 13 felony charges; and why prosecutors were using his and his employees' recordings in 2019.
 

tstorm823

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Don't worry, the authorities are well aware. This is why Giuliani is the likely "co-conspirator" in Trump's third indictment; why Giuliani was indicted on 13 felony charges; and why prosecutors were using his and his employees' recordings in 2019.
When was Giuliani charged with anything related to Ukraine?
 

Silvanus

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When was Giuliani charged with anything related to Ukraine?
Oop, you're right, Giuliani has not been indicted to anything related to Ukraine.

Giuliani's many, many felony indictments concern efforts to assist Trump in overturning the election, not to Ukraine.

And meanwile, 2 of Giuliani's Ukraine associates were indicted on corruption-related charges, and Giuliani's Ukrainian MP ally was charged with treason.

I got different sections of this gigantic mess of corruption to Trump's benefit mixed up. Much better! This is certainly... uhrm, less incriminating than... one Republican operative saying LBJ did it.
 

tstorm823

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And meanwile, 2 of Giuliani's Ukraine associates were indicted on corruption-related charges, and Giuliani's Ukrainian MP ally was charged with treason.

I got different sections of this gigantic mess of corruption to Trump's benefit mixed up. Much better! This is certainly... uhrm, less incriminating than... one Republican operative saying LBJ did it.
It is dramatically less incriminating.

Let me put it this way: if they had uncovered records of someone not at all connected to Johnson instigating the spying, if it turns out Nixon was behind the scenes looking to sabotage Goldwater for personal reasons and there are records of him telling the CIA to do so, that would be reason not to suspect Johnson, even if Johnson was taking advantage of the information. That Giuliani's associates with no real direct ties to Trump are all guilty of corruption is not reason to suspect Giuliani was acting on Trump's direction, it's actually the opposite. We know who Giuliani was acting with and on behalf of, it wasn't Trump.
 

Silvanus

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It is dramatically less incriminating.
😂

We know your actual criteria, man. One has an R and one has a D next to their name. If a single disgraced Democratic operative was all we had for an allegation against a Republican president, you'd be here eviscerating their credibility and calling us all credulous fools if we believed it.

That Giuliani's associates with no real direct ties to Trump are all guilty of corruption is not reason to suspect Giuliani was acting on Trump's direction, it's actually the opposite.
That's absolute gold.

Working for Trump's lawyer is a tie. Working on Trump's pet project is a tie. Both together is a honking great tie.
 

Agema

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That Giuliani's associates with no real direct ties to Trump are all guilty of corruption is not reason to suspect Giuliani was acting on Trump's direction, it's actually the opposite. We know who Giuliani was acting with and on behalf of, it wasn't Trump.
😂

If only you could listen to yourself from the position of a third party and understand how absurd your argument seems.
 
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Gergar12

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In my opinion, Democrats really are weak when it comes to the carrots and sticks of their donors. Jamie Dimon, Sam Altman, and many others are democrats; now, Zuckerberg is likely an opportunist.

If I were the next democratic presidential candidate, the first thing I would do is have a meeting with the progressive labor unions and other advocates, and whatever remains of the billionaires' support of the Democratic party, and tell them your enemy is not each other, it's MAGA/JD Vance.

It's weird that in 2016-2017, I was begging my chapter of college democrats to make memes to counter republicans. I shouldn't have to do that; someone smarter and more capable than I should have.

I am barely a Redditor with severe mental illness and ADHD; some people don't have that, and there are a lot more dynamic people who missed the mark on Trump's rise.

As of right now, Peter Thiel and Elon Musk(Yes, I sold both of their stock, so don't complain), brought out the Young Turks, which was then the biggest media org on YouTube that was independent, Elon has X/Twitter, and Larry Ellison has TikTok. Now, to mention CBS is under the control of the republicans.

You know what's going to happen after the republicans fight about Israel, Jewish issues, etc. They are going to compromise and get stronger.

The democratic party, as of today, is fighting against the following people...

the Republicans
MAGA
Nazis
Conspiracy theorists
the Republican billionaires(bigger than the dems)
the Republican media system(growing larger every day if not already bigger than the dems)
the Republican activists
the Republican adjacent religious orgs(bigger than the dems)
Russia
China(which sold TikTok to Larry Ellison)
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Likely India
Various trolls paid by the above here, and overseas

Basically, the democrats are fighting against the whole world; they should act like it.
 

Agema

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In my opinion, Democrats really are weak when it comes to the carrots and sticks of their donors. Jamie Dimon, Sam Altman, and many others are democrats
No they aren't, they're plutocrat businessmen. They'll support whoever looks mostly likely to keep their money rolling in.

Indeed, this is one of the fundamental problems the left wing has. They're supposed to give a leg up to the little guy, and they need to soak businesses and the rich to do so. In response, the rich fund politicians up the wazoo to stop that happening. Normally, that's helping right-wingers win, but when the right looks like its going to lose, it means subverting left-leaning parties.

* * *

Other than that, yes, you're right. The Republicans have launched their authoritarian grab on power, a la Orban or Kaczynski. They rigged SCOTUS and no-one did anything, they're rigging the media and no-one's going to do anything, they're demanding corporations pay obeisance, strong-arming prestigious law firms into giving them free legal support, and muzzling universities, etc.

And their supporters fucking love it. They always do. Who doesn't want to win? A bit of cheating can be overlooked, and then a bit more cheating can be overlooked, and on and on until eventually their voters are okay with them cancelling elections and shoving undesirables into gas chambers.

In a way, there's nothing the Democrats can do, except win an election. Not that they'd do anything to stop the rot even if they did win an election.
 
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Gergar12

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No they aren't, they're plutocrat businessmen. They'll support whoever looks mostly likely to keep their money rolling in.

Indeed, this is one of the fundamental problems the left wing has. They're supposed to give a leg up to the little guy, and they need to soak businesses and the rich to do so. In response, the rich fund politicians up the wazoo to stop that happening. Normally, that's helping right-wingers win, but when the right looks like its going to lose, it means subverting left-leaning parties.

* * *

Other than that, yes, you're right. The Republicans have launched their authoritarian grab on power, a la Orban or Kaczynski. They rigged SCOTUS and no-one did anything, they're rigging the media and no-one's going to do anything, they're demanding corporations pay obeisance, strong-arming prestigious law firms into giving them free legal support, and muzzling universities, etc.

And their supporters fucking love it. They always do. Who doesn't want to win? A bit of cheating can be overlooked, and then a bit more cheating can be overlooked, and on and on until eventually their voters are okay with them cancelling elections and shoving undesirables into gas chambers.

In a way, there's nothing the Democrats can do, except win an election. Not that they'd do anything to stop the rot even if they did win an election.
If I were Biden, in hindsight, I would have hired a liberal billionaire or even someone who was financially/economically conservative, like a Jamie Dimon or one of the various billionaire democratic donors to be a cabinet secretary. Biden didn't do it to appease the left; it didn't work. The left wing still hated him for Israel. While Mark Cuban, for example, knew he had Lina Khan on his Administration and still backed him while advocating for him to fire her next, that and Biden needed to be strong, and there needed to be more infighting on issues to force a compromise, and less when the general election happened, and when Biden chose to step down.

Without money, you can't run campaigns, and you get closed off and outsmarted by closed-door meetings of people who will want to ratfuck you. Without leftist activists, you get outflanked by the right-wing activists who have more energy than you. Trump has 3 years to fix the economy, and I suspect he will. By 2026, he will bribe America to vote for republicans with another stimulus, and it will either stop swing districts from switching as often or just stalemate it.

The problem is that I don't even think Democrats care. Your most dynamic potential democrat isn't the liberal activists or a staffer. It's a liberal programmer at a tech company. Meanwhile, Republicans who have less education overall are running roughshod over the Democrats. Well, the republican billionaires in many tech companies have fired the democratic programmer or product manager. If I don't see some of them spamming, attacking, and trolling republicans back in waves, we have really proven we are a country that isn't willing to fight against fascism in the modern age.
 

tstorm823

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😂

If only you could listen to yourself from the position of a third party and understand how absurd your argument seems.
It can look absurd to you, but if I'm right, it's not absurd. I am the one who said it sounded like the Ukranians are feeding that info to Trump, not the other way around, based solely on the phone transcript. You thought Trump was bkackmailing Ukraine. People from the Ukrainian side being charged vindicates me, and you got it completely wrong.
 

Thaluikhain

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Trump has 3 years to fix the economy, and I suspect he will. By 2026, he will bribe America to vote for republicans with another stimulus, and it will either stop swing districts from switching as often or just stalemate it.
Well, he'll put the economy in a fix. But as for bribing people, yeah, he can stop mucking things up before the election to make things seem relatively better.

The problem is that I don't even think Democrats care.
That is a problem with a lot of Democrat leaders on a lot of issues, yes.
 

Satinavian

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If I were Biden, in hindsight, I would have hired a liberal billionaire or even someone who was financially/economically conservative, like a Jamie Dimon or one of the various billionaire democratic donors to be a cabinet secretary.
Biden was just old and weak. There are so many things that Biden could have done better - Or done at all, for that matter. He wasn't a good president. He was just not a blatantly corrupt and self-serving criminal like Trump and instead ineffectively continued the status quo. That sums up most of his accomplishments. There has been some good Biden era legislation, but mostly small issues that soon were forgotten.

Also yes, Trump is ruining the economy, not fixing it.
- taxbreakes for the rich don't actually lead to all that much more investment. That was always wishful thinking
- cutting social security however does have a direct impact as the demand for everything nonessenial crashes
- ICE disrupting every industry which employs people who are not completely white hurts dramatically
- tariffs disrupt all supply chains and lead to higher overall costs
- the fossil focus is uneconomic nowadays and just burns money
- the uncertainty is really bad for business. If you had money, you would rather invest it overseas where you can have propper planning horizons
- alienating all allies and unpredictable swings in foreign policies coupled with rising debt undermines the dollar als global reserve currency
- killing the independence of your national bank does the same.

I don't know of any president who hurt the economy as much as Trump did in the last 50 ears at least. There won't be any recovery in the next 3 years, it will all go downhill instead.
 
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Agema

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we have really proven we are a country that isn't willing to fight against fascism in the modern age.
Yes. Although not just America. Most of the Western world is currently in the process of falling to the authoritarian right.

The problem is that a good 20-30% of the population are right-wing authoritarians. This is a psychological description, not political - but it will of course have a significant effect on voting intention. It's pretty constant over times and places, so that's how many people are basically just waiting for a Hitler to turn up and give them some strong leadership. The results of actual Hitler and WW2 made parties that appeal too directly to this unpalatable for decades, but that effect is fading, so here they are rising anew. And as our societies are gripped by anxieties and frustrations, they're not having that much trouble adding the extra 20-30% of the population that they need to take power.
 

tstorm823

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Also yes, Trump is ruining the economy, not fixing it.
What are you going to say when the opposite happens? If, after 4 years, the economy is humming better than it is now? Are you going to maintain this certainty that Trump is ruining the economy? Are you going to be the punchline insisting that even if it works in reality, it doesn't work in theory?
 

tstorm823

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The problem is that a good 20-30% of the population are right-wing authoritarians.
In a broad sense, I would want to argue that being right wing does not have a monopoly or even a statistically significant association with genocide, but then I read the article, and well...
  1. a high degree of submission to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
  2. a general aggressiveness, directed against various persons, that is perceived to be sanctioned by established authorities.
  3. a high degree of adherence to the social conventions that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities.
That describes you, Agema.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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What are you going to say when the opposite happens? If, after 4 years, the economy is humming better than it is now? Are you going to maintain this certainty that Trump is ruining the economy? Are you going to be the punchline insisting that even if it works in reality, it doesn't work in theory?
Whare are you going to say when none of that turns out to happen, and Trump actually does crash the economy?
 
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Agema

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  1. A high degree of submission to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
  2. a general aggressiveness, directed against various persons, that is perceived to be sanctioned by established authorities.
  3. a high degree of adherence to the social conventions that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities.
That describes you, Agema.
Your overriding problem is that your confidence is inversely proportional to your insight. And your confidence is extremely high.