It's "that" Skyrim topic again...

[SajuukKhar]

(Although I don't know how much that helped against the daedra.)

The dangerous nature of the Argonian's homeland did little to help against the Daedra, as the Argonians went INTO the Daedric portals and killed Daedra there, rather then letting the Daedra enter into Black Marsh and fighting them on Nirn.

The Hist gave the argonians a special kind of sap, which caused them to go into a berserk rage, and when the daedric portals opened, the Argonians rushed in like a flood, murdering everything in their path, to the point that Dagon's own generals started closing the gates themselves out of fear.

 

[NearLifeExperience]

I don't care about any of their shit, all I know is that the Imperials tried to behead me without a reason to do so and they also seem to invade other people's lands with their insidious laws, acting as mere puppets to the Thalmor. That's more than enough reason for me to take the fight to them. Sure, the Stormcloaks are no saints either, but I gladly fought with them against the Imperial pigs, even if I couldn't give a rats ass about Ulfric or Talos or the xenofobic asshats that call themselves Nords.

 

[irok]

Yeah but isn't it very Nordic to go yeah we'll fight the imperials and we'll take you bastards on as well, we see that its a trap and we are going to plow through it, that was my take on it anyway

 

[Amaror]

My main argument against Ulric is that he is Hitler and i don't like Hitler.
Just think about it:
A charismatic Leader, leading a nation of obviously racist people, aiming to clean their country of the evil foreigners.
Yeah there's not concentration camps or anything, but even in nazi germany these were built AFTER Hitler took over, not before.

 

[Cecilo]

Why would they teach anyone how to use the voice if they weren't going to follow the way of the voice, they make it very clear Thu'um is only to be used for the worship of the gods, except in the case of the Dragonborn who is the exception to the rule by virtue of being a gift from Akatosh.

Heck they threaten to stop teaching YOU the dragonborn more about the Voice if you don't start using the voice in the way they approve of until Paarthurnax tells them to let you up to the mountain top.

Because while THEY believe the voice is only to be used in the worship of the gods, they understand that not everyone agrees, and they have a greater understanding of destiny.

No they don't, in fact, you can tell them you dont follow their beliefs and they go "well, we wish you would, but we understand your dragonborn and gotta do whatever Akatosh wanted you to do, so its ok". The only thing they say is that they dont want you to learn the dragonrend shout because they view it as evil, not to use your voice only in the worship of gods, and those are vastly different things.
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Also, its believed that Tullius, Ulfric, and the Dragonborn are all avatars of Talos/Lorkhan, so there's some mythic destiny bs going on here.

I find it very hard to believe the Greybeards who hold that the Voice should only be used in True Need would teach other people how to use the voice just.. because, especially for warfare, especially for murdering people. Like how religious groups in our real world do not teach others how to use their religion as a basis for committing crimes and murdering people.

" The main precept of the philosophy is that those who can wield the Voice should only do so in times of "True Need"."

"Due to the rarity of times of "True Need" and the nonviolent lifestyles of the Greybeard monks (the most famous practitioners of the Way of the Voice), the philosophy is generally viewed to be one of pacifism. Actually, the Way of the Voice teaches that using the thu'um for battle is merely "the least of its uses"."

 

[Dandark]

Only problem is I find it really hard to sympathize with some of the stormcloaks worse elements and I like the imperial Jarls more.

Very much this. Every time I try to make a Stormcloak character, Whiterun gets attacked and Balgruuf gets ousted and I just have to go over to Windhelm and murder every single one of them.

Whiterun's easily my favorite city and Balgruuf's the best Jarl of them all. Having to actually attack his city never sits right with me.

I think the Stormcloaks would be more appealing if you could convert Balgruff instead of having to attack him. He is supposed to be neutral and still be deciding which side he has to side with so how about having the dragonborn who helped defend his city from a dragon and earned his trust and respect advice him on who to side with?

Though I think it's also supposed to say something about Ulfric. He didn't want to join the war but Ulric finally forced him into it.

 

[shintakie10]

I don't think anything (at least any of the humanoid kingdoms) could threaten the Argonians on their home turf, but could they be organised enough to hold onto the lands they managed to take over?

The Argonians are almost entirely unified under a single banner at the moment. On top of that, if the Hist tree (trees?) tell the Argonians to do somethin, they fuckin do it no questions asked.

If the Hist trees feel that the other races are a threat, there isn't shit that could stop the Argonians from quite literally wipin out every single other faction.

 

[silver wolf009]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?

There's a quest in Whiterun to track down someone's son, who has been taken by the Thalmor for speaking out against their ban on Talos.

I won't give away too much, but you find him in a room with a, "Thalmor Torturer", with clear signs of interrogation and torture. Not a concentration camp, but still very Nazi like.

 

[optimusjamie]

Both sides have their pros and cons.
Imperials: They did try to remove you head, it's very easy to see them as Thalmor puppets and the Septims are long dead, but they need Skyrim if they're going to fight the Dominion- Nords are excellent warriors, and if they lose Skyrim, they risk losing High Rock as well.
Stormcloaks: It would make more sense for a Nord PC to join them for a number of reasons- however, they are, as mentioned before, xenophobic, racist, and IIRC Ulfric doesn't understand wartime economics (seriously- compare the state of Windhelm or Riften to Whiterun or Solitude).

As for which side's victory would benefit the Dominion- from my understanding, neither of them do. If the Imperials win, the Empire might stand a fighting chance- they gain a propaganda victory and have access to Nord warriors. If the Stormcloaks win, you have a still somewhat powerful Empire and a fanatical Nord army that will fight to the death. The Dominion's strategy is to weaken both sides by keeping the civil war going as long as possible, making destroying both (and eventually Mundus itself) much easier.

Even better, it's possible for the Dragonborn to never know about this, essentially being a massive spanner in the works to a plan the Dominion has been developing and implementing for several decades or possibly centuries, going back as far as the end of the Septim dynasty.

 

[DEAD34345]

I'm of the opinion that the Empire is functionally dead before Skyrim even begins. Even before the Great War they only controlled Cyrodiil, High-Rock, Hammerfell and Skyrim, but the fact is that they lost the war. Forcing Skyrim to stick with the Empire now is less like unifying Tamriel to defend against the Aldmeri, and more like tying a boulder to High-Rock and Skyrim to drag them down into defeat with it.

Hell, Hammerfell was given to the Aldmeri Dominion by the Empire, and they've done alright seceding and driving the Aldmeri Dominion out themselves. I don't see why it would be any less advantageous for Skyrim to do the same. There are undercurrents of xenophobia in the Stormcloak rebellion, sure, but that's hardly surprising or even unjustified considering the situation. Other than that, they just seem the better option, whether you want religious freedom or just victory against the Dominion. After losing the war and getting weaker and weaker, the Empire has nothing to offer now but Thalmor oppression and defeat.

 

[Sansha]

Either a prolonged conflict, or a Stormcloak victory help the Dominion. If Skyrim secedes, then High Rock is completely cut off from Cyrodiil, and may secede as well. There will be no power large enough to oppose the Dominion.
The civil war is exactly what the Thalmor wanted when they wrote the Concordant.

Pretty much this. If there's one thing the elves have, it's intellect and cunning. They knew damn well the Nords would lose their shit over being told what to do and would start some shit. What happened in The Reach confirmed that, and that Ulfric and his people made such a big deal about it, to the point that the Elves were justified in wandering about Skyrim.

The Stormcloaks say it's all about gold, politics and cowardice. To me, it's common sense - doing what the Elves tell us to until such a time that we can formulate a plan to overcome them and drive them back to Summerset Isle. It's like I was told in Riverwood - everyone had their little shrine to Talos in secret, until Ulfric started agitating about it.

Finally, my personal perspective - at Helgen, I rushed over to the tower, where the Stormcloaks were taking shelter, to find them hanging around with their hands unbound. They didn't make any attempt to cut my bindings while we had the downtime sheltering in the tower. They then told me to go up the stairs, where I was nearly roasted by the dragon, and then out a hole in the wall to a frankly stupid leap of faith, I presume as bait. They didn't follow.
I found the Imperial guy who had a few minutes prior noted that I'm not on the list to go to execution, and his first priority was to get me across town to the keep, where we found the Stormcloak guy - weapon in hand getting his flee on - who wanted me to follow him again.

Get fucking real.

 

[Nosirrah]

Neither. They don't deserve to rule if neither of them want to be nice to the only guy who can kill the biggest threat.

 

[Doom972]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?

There's a quest in Whiterun to track down someone's son, who has been taken by the Thalmor for speaking out against their ban on Talos.

I won't give away too much, but you find him in a room with a, "Thalmor Torturer", with clear signs of interrogation and torture. Not a concentration camp, but still very Nazi like.

As I said in another post, I did this quest. I also commented on it.
As for your specific point: All nations who've been in a war used various torture techniques. I don't see how it's specific to nazis. If I think of torture, I usually think china. In many films/books/games/etc I see mentions of "ancient chinese torture techniques", so that's the first thing that comes to mind.

I don't see the Thalmor having much to do with nazis without the genocide and leader worship.

 

[Battleaxx90]

Only problem is I find it really hard to sympathize with some of the stormcloaks worse elements and I like the imperial Jarls more.

Very much this. Every time I try to make a Stormcloak character, Whiterun gets attacked and Balgruuf gets ousted and I just have to go over to Windhelm and murder every single one of them.

Whiterun's easily my favorite city and Balgruuf's the best Jarl of them all. Having to actually attack his city never sits right with me.

THIS.

I was perfectly willing to ignore the whole civil war plotline - both sides are different varieties of asshats, and they were just gonna have staring contests until I joined up with one side anyway - but then I discovered that Ulfric was planning to invade Whiterun. That's what tore it.

Whiterun is my character's hometown; my headcanon is that he lived in that burned house outside the city when he was a kid. He lost his home once already, and he had no plans whatsoever of losing it again. So he joined the Legion as a means to an end to protect his home and all of Skyrim.

 

[Siege_TF]

Stormcloaks: Regressive nationalists.
Forsworn: Like Stormcloaks, but worse. Possible Daedra worshipers.
Imperials: Surprisingly decent for a medieval setting, particularly compared to their real word counterparts.
Dominion: Wicked elf swine.
Horses: Need satchels.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

I'm of the opinion that the Empire is functionally dead before Skyrim even begins. Even before the Great War they only controlled Cyrodiil, High-Rock, Hammerfell and Skyrim, but the fact is that they lost the war. Forcing Skyrim to stick with the Empire now is less like unifying Tamriel to defend against the Aldmeri, and more like tying a boulder to High-Rock and Skyrim to drag them down into defeat with it.

Hell, Hammerfell was given to the Aldmeri Dominion by the Empire, and they've done alright seceding and driving the Aldmeri Dominion out themselves. I don't see why it would be any less advantageous for Skyrim to do the same. There are undercurrents of xenophobia in the Stormcloak rebellion, sure, but that's hardly surprising or even unjustified considering the situation. Other than that, they just seem the better option, whether you want religious freedom or just victory against the Dominion. After losing the war and getting weaker and weaker, the Empire has nothing to offer now but Thalmor oppression and defeat.

I pretty much completely agree with this.

I've played the Stormcloak storyline before, and though there are indeed some racist assholes within their ranks, both Ulfric and his right-hand-man were more than accepting and respectful to my character (a Khajiit), and I can't recall being given any trouble for being a cat.

Besides, my main character is a member of the Dark Brotherhood. The Empire has tried to kill her TWICE, and succeeded in killing almost her entire (adoptive) family. There's no way in Oblivion she'd side with them, unless it was the easiest way to kill them in their sleep.

 

[Scott Rothman]

They're both super evil, especially once you read into the whole forsworn backstory.

Lol look at this forsworn sympathizer

I bet you think Markarth rightfully belongs to High Rock too

and you replaced your heart with a Briar Heart which could easily be pickpocketed off you and therefore kill you.

They were on Skyrim first! Then the Nords just decide, nah we want this. Time to slaughter all the people currently living here!

 

[fornever1]

In the long term i can't see how the stormcloaks winning is better for skyrim. The dominion would have a much easier time conquering two provences and then one as opposed to having to conquer all three at once. plus from what we've seen in the game the stormcloaks have a weaker army. they only have light armored infantry whereas the empire has light and heavy armored infantry and mages. also Skyrim would be on its own surrounded by people who don't like it.also, if the dragonborn didn't interfere the imperials are the most likely to win.

 

[shintakie10]

Hell, Hammerfell was given to the Aldmeri Dominion by the Empire, and they've done alright seceding and driving the Aldmeri Dominion out themselves

Not really true. The Redguards only won because the Dominion sorta stopped carin. They knew Cyrodill was the big prize and Hammerfell was just a distraction so left a token force to hold off the Redguards. Until the point that the Empire started pushin the Dominion back the Redguards weren't able to gain any ground against the Dominion.

Even better, it's possible for the Dragonborn to never know about this, essentially being a massive spanner in the works to a plan the Dominion has been developing and implementing for several decades or possibly centuries, going back as far as the end of the Septim dynasty.

Chances are the Dragonborn will be put on a bus, much like the Nerevarine from Morrowind and the hero from Oblivion, because characters as powerful as them screw with the narrative too much to work the lore around.

 

[fornever1]

Besides, my main character is a member of the Dark Brotherhood. The Empire has tried to kill her TWICE, and succeeded in killing almost her entire (adoptive) family. There's no way in Oblivion she'd side with them, unless it was the easiest way to kill them in their sleep.

can you blame them? you WERE trying to kill the emperor, you started it. besides, they never would have found you if it wasn't for the leader of your "family".