It's the End of the War as We Know It
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
You echo the sentiments I've been trying to convey to some of my console friends. This trend we're seeing concerning dedicated servers really bothers me. The point you made I feel most at heart about is the server communities one. I play probably 90% of my TF2 time on a single server (Fug games - Orange x3. Come say hi!) and there's a real sense of community there. I hate that some developers don't feel this is important.
Clear and to the point, hopefully it will make PC gamers dissatisfaction more understandable to the people who still don't get what's the big deal about dedicated servers.
Also...
This is just about greed, unbelievable amounts of greed.
Also...
It was never an issue weather or not MW2 is gonna make profit, even if they hadn't hiked up the price they still probably would have made more money on first day of sale than it took to develop all the Call of Duty games so far and the next sequel combined. And everyone knew that.Shamus Young said:
This is just about greed, unbelievable amounts of greed.
That is pretty damn unfair if they do and it is in no way PC gamers "fault". I don't see many people shoot themselves in the foot and then blame someone else for it, but if there is no more CoD games on PC because "we didn't put out" then it just proves that PC gamers were not the ones to blame.Woodsey said:
if IW/Activision won't man up and take responsibility then they are basically twisting the situation to fit their own pre-determined opinion, so I completely disagree that PC gamers are at fault here, regardless of the outcome.
I know you aren't blaming PC gamers, I'm not twisting your words, but I think that if IW/Activision drop PC support because we "rejected" Modern Warfare 2 in the same way a woman would to a creepy old man trying to cop a feel, then it isn't fair.
Let'em. Fuck it. Someone else will take their place. Dice/EA for instances.Woodsey said:
I promise you, if enough money is being moved around, they'll suddenly want us back... Hell, if enough money goes around, they'll sell their mothers to have us back. It's all about money.
As always a few bad PC apples cheat and everyone blabs about it.
You can run hacks just the same on xbox's and ps3's I seen it.
This bites because honestly, I enjoy the game but I don't FPS with a controler, I'm a mouse and keyboard shooter, I want to beable to aim where i want to, not run around fire and pray the auto target assist helps me out like most console FPS do.
You can run hacks just the same on xbox's and ps3's I seen it.
This bites because honestly, I enjoy the game but I don't FPS with a controler, I'm a mouse and keyboard shooter, I want to beable to aim where i want to, not run around fire and pray the auto target assist helps me out like most console FPS do.
yeah, but if you have been following with the news, you may have seen the article about Microsoft banning something like...600,000 to 1,000,000 Xbox accounts because of this. You can't have this mass genocide of cheaters on PC.Carlston said:
While I could agree with parts of John Funk's article (I made my comments regarding that topic there and won't litter this thread with them) I tend to better agree with Mr. Young's work.
I can understand why companies move in this direction and even begrudginly agree that it the move makes sense from a business standpoint. That said, the community is often pointed out as the key factor that keeps the PC gaming crowd on their system of choice. In any game I have played for extended periods on the PC, I have eventually found my way to servers that catered to my own personal tastes. Hell's Kitchen ran the TF Mega map Frontlin in an endless loop, and, being by far the most innovative map made for that entire mod, I was regularly found on that server. The trend contined during the Tribes days, the era of counter strike and Unreal tournament and the like. The community was built around the notion that, no matter how many people played the game you could always visit that favorite server and rub elbows with old friends and allies while still seeing a constant influx of new blood.
Of course, my complaint with the entire scenario was never what they did or why they did it, but rather with the flimsy excuses they constructed to make the move seem like anything but mercenary. I can accept that they want to make money on a product and that this move is designed to help further that goal. But to tell me that the move was designed to effectively combat cheating is simply a slap in the face. In the great arms race between the cheat protection and those that seek to circumvent such things the advantage has always been with the cheaters.
No matter how you try to dress it up, removal of a feature that has existed in FPS games since Quake 2 is a loss.
I can understand why companies move in this direction and even begrudginly agree that it the move makes sense from a business standpoint. That said, the community is often pointed out as the key factor that keeps the PC gaming crowd on their system of choice. In any game I have played for extended periods on the PC, I have eventually found my way to servers that catered to my own personal tastes. Hell's Kitchen ran the TF Mega map Frontlin in an endless loop, and, being by far the most innovative map made for that entire mod, I was regularly found on that server. The trend contined during the Tribes days, the era of counter strike and Unreal tournament and the like. The community was built around the notion that, no matter how many people played the game you could always visit that favorite server and rub elbows with old friends and allies while still seeing a constant influx of new blood.
Of course, my complaint with the entire scenario was never what they did or why they did it, but rather with the flimsy excuses they constructed to make the move seem like anything but mercenary. I can accept that they want to make money on a product and that this move is designed to help further that goal. But to tell me that the move was designed to effectively combat cheating is simply a slap in the face. In the great arms race between the cheat protection and those that seek to circumvent such things the advantage has always been with the cheaters.
No matter how you try to dress it up, removal of a feature that has existed in FPS games since Quake 2 is a loss.
Pay-to-play online portals. It's that simple. You payShamus Young said:
Thank you, Shamus, for summing up the PC community's fears for those who don't understand our feelings. I've been trying myself, but you were much more concise than I think I could be. Sadly, this is an uphill battle- everybody knows that money talks, and the stratospheric sales of MW2 will only lead other developers and publishers down this road.
Well. My PS3 dies and now my badass PC is becoming worthless (To justify. I like to play online, most games have online. Most games are simply online with a bit of a single player thrown in. My PC gaming is not looking fortunate.) Fuck gaming. Fuck it all. Fuck the greedy bastards scrounging pennies when they have many pounds in the bank.
OK that said. Whatever... Maybe it's time for me to get a new hobby... Like... Eating. Or watching TV.
OK that said. Whatever... Maybe it's time for me to get a new hobby... Like... Eating. Or watching TV.
Number 3 is easily one of the most bothersome of these for me. I hate the random games and the random people, I prefer a community that I eventually grow to love, and with this COD it just can't happen.
Big companies only care about big money...
I simply cannot believe that this was news to anyone!
If you guys did not see this one coming, then you almost deserve it. I mean, Booby Kotick is a lot like most of us, I am guessing, imagines the Devil to be like, were he real. So, of course he does not care about you... Or your precious servers.
One thing is for sure; they are not getting my money!
I simply cannot believe that this was news to anyone!
If you guys did not see this one coming, then you almost deserve it. I mean, Booby Kotick is a lot like most of us, I am guessing, imagines the Devil to be like, were he real. So, of course he does not care about you... Or your precious servers.
One thing is for sure; they are not getting my money!
The PC gaming is not dead. And it will NEVER die. The reason is that the PC gaming doesn't only have all those nice and shiny games that demand your soul to perform well (exaggerated hyperbole) but also all those indie and flash games. The PC's biggest gaming strength is that you don't need to buy a license like you do on the consoles. You can develop freely and sell or give a game for free without big problems.
OT: To be honest, I'm not a big fan of online multiplayer. I'm more of a local dude actually. But, one of my friends is a BIG online PC gamer and was even looking forward to buy Modern Warfare 2 because he had an excellent time playing the first Modern Warfare online. The crippled online of the second game came to him as a big shock. No surprise taking into account the not-so-stellar connections here in Greece. It would lag as hell.
My biggest fear for when the "no dedicated servers for PC" news were announced must have been the fact that other developers would probably follow. And Carmack followed. If two well-known entities decided to abandon dedicated servers, who can guarantee that others won't? Who can guarantee that they won't try to cause some bullshit on the consoles too?
OT: To be honest, I'm not a big fan of online multiplayer. I'm more of a local dude actually. But, one of my friends is a BIG online PC gamer and was even looking forward to buy Modern Warfare 2 because he had an excellent time playing the first Modern Warfare online. The crippled online of the second game came to him as a big shock. No surprise taking into account the not-so-stellar connections here in Greece. It would lag as hell.
My biggest fear for when the "no dedicated servers for PC" news were announced must have been the fact that other developers would probably follow. And Carmack followed. If two well-known entities decided to abandon dedicated servers, who can guarantee that others won't? Who can guarantee that they won't try to cause some bullshit on the consoles too?
If companies were serious about streamlining the experience they would
take the good things from consoles and apply them to PC's. It would be much simpler to just make a game os that has all of the features Steam, Playstation, and Xbox 360 provide. Create one overall platform for developers to target, end the defacto dominance of one company whose main market has nothing to do with gaming (Microsoft); which will end stunts like the ones Crysis and Halo 2 pulled in order to push sales of a product that had nothing to do with gaming. Dedicated servers don't really streamline anything because even with them there you still have a bunch of disparate services all with their own friends lists or moronic restrictions on where game data can be installed in the case of Steam. (I'm running out of space on my windows partition and now have to think of some song and dance because whoever made that program seems to think that hard drive space is infinite.)
Has no one noticed how Microsoft is subtly pushing out other types of gamepads by requiring newer games to support Microsoft controllers? Now it is not exactly surprising if a game comes out on the PC that only supports a 360 controller or some other Microsoft brand pad. Granted third party pads designed specifically for use on PC tend to be able to get around that problem but the fact remains that Microsoft is trying to push it's own products in a way that often
leads to the exclusion of other manufacturers. I think everyone here knows that eventually there will be high profile Windows 7 only games.
Ask yourselves if you think it sounds reasonable to pay anywhere from approximately 100-500USD give or take just for the operating system, and then however much else you need for the inevitable upgrade(s) to your system, because the game you want to play will only function under Windows 7. Should Microsoft even be able to arbitrarily withhold features so that they can use a game to push sales of their product which you would otherwise not need at all? But of course it is much simpler for companies to push their own silly services, and remove things like dedicated servers than it is for them to come together and really streamline this whole thing in a way that does not suck.
take the good things from consoles and apply them to PC's. It would be much simpler to just make a game os that has all of the features Steam, Playstation, and Xbox 360 provide. Create one overall platform for developers to target, end the defacto dominance of one company whose main market has nothing to do with gaming (Microsoft); which will end stunts like the ones Crysis and Halo 2 pulled in order to push sales of a product that had nothing to do with gaming. Dedicated servers don't really streamline anything because even with them there you still have a bunch of disparate services all with their own friends lists or moronic restrictions on where game data can be installed in the case of Steam. (I'm running out of space on my windows partition and now have to think of some song and dance because whoever made that program seems to think that hard drive space is infinite.)
Has no one noticed how Microsoft is subtly pushing out other types of gamepads by requiring newer games to support Microsoft controllers? Now it is not exactly surprising if a game comes out on the PC that only supports a 360 controller or some other Microsoft brand pad. Granted third party pads designed specifically for use on PC tend to be able to get around that problem but the fact remains that Microsoft is trying to push it's own products in a way that often
leads to the exclusion of other manufacturers. I think everyone here knows that eventually there will be high profile Windows 7 only games.
Ask yourselves if you think it sounds reasonable to pay anywhere from approximately 100-500USD give or take just for the operating system, and then however much else you need for the inevitable upgrade(s) to your system, because the game you want to play will only function under Windows 7. Should Microsoft even be able to arbitrarily withhold features so that they can use a game to push sales of their product which you would otherwise not need at all? But of course it is much simpler for companies to push their own silly services, and remove things like dedicated servers than it is for them to come together and really streamline this whole thing in a way that does not suck.
