I've seen a lot of stories lately on the Police in the US. This is by far the worst.

[azukar]

Wait, American schools have cops in them now? What kind of society have you got running over there, guys?

 

[JoJo]

Officers are only meant to use their guns in cases where they believe themselves or others are faced with a clear and present danger to their lives. I fail to see how a 14 year old kid opening a door on a full-grown adult constitutes a danger to the cop's life, so he's guilty of manslaughter at-least, if not murder, if this story is true.

garden sheds can house sharp weapons. If the kid found one, he could easily ambush and murder the cop. If he is stupid enough to run then he is stupid enough to take on an officer.

Note the words "clear and present danger". You can't shoot a civilian, especially not a child, simply because you believe they might possibly be armed, you need to actually know that they definitely have a weapon. Plus the cop was ordered not to follow, so he disobeyed orders from the start.

actually they could if you resist and they think you have a weapon. There are many cases where a criminal reaches for something while he resisted only to be shot. There was no drama there. The only reason its a "tragedy" now is because people still believe children are little Timmy riding bicycles. That is not the case here.

You really think a 14 year old is responsible enough for their actions to deserve death in this case? What country are you from, evidently not one where the age for drinking, smoking, age of consent, marriage, death penalty etc are all higher than that age.

Also there was absolutely no reason to think he might have a weapon and honestly if a grown man feels threatened by a 14 year old, he shouldn't be in the police force.

 

[Thyunda]

From the OP's second link:

Gonzalez said Monday that Lopez had been expelled from Pease Middle School and then from from a Northside alternative school and was attending the Bexar County Juvenile Justice Academy.

So this wasn't your average high school. It was a "one step away from juvenile hall(kid's jail)" school. And correct me if I am wrong but the officer encountered this kid beating someone up. Later the officer catches up with the kid at a garden shed and the kid rams the officer with the shed door.

So let us review the situation: a kid in a school of violent kids who was just caught beating someone up rams an officer of the law. Sounds to me like the officer was a bit jumpy but I can understand why he would have felt threatened for a moment.

Oh and for those of you who think they wouldn't have felt threatened by a "child," a 14 year old is usually just a few inches short of his/er maximum height. This kid wasn't scrawny either, you can see a picture of him in the links the OP posted.

Listen to this dude. He's not blinded by instant bias...

This is irrelevant. He was unarmed. And he was shot. Y'know how police in this country managed a few years back? They carry a tough little stick for beating people about the head with. What the fuck was the policeman doing chasing the kid with a gun? Has he not been taught in any kind of takedown or apprehension technique? Do they even bother to train the police force in America, or do they just tell them to whip out their guns for every problem?

 

[Shadowkire]

From the OP's second link:

Gonzalez said Monday that Lopez had been expelled from Pease Middle School and then from from a Northside alternative school and was attending the Bexar County Juvenile Justice Academy.

So this wasn't your average high school. It was a "one step away from juvenile hall(kid's jail)" school. And correct me if I am wrong but the officer encountered this kid beating someone up. Later the officer catches up with the kid at a garden shed and the kid rams the officer with the shed door.

So let us review the situation: a kid in a school of violent kids who was just caught beating someone up rams an officer of the law. Sounds to me like the officer was a bit jumpy but I can understand why he would have felt threatened for a moment.

Oh and for those of you who think they wouldn't have felt threatened by a "child," a 14 year old is usually just a few inches short of his/er maximum height. This kid wasn't scrawny either, you can see a picture of him in the links the OP posted.

Listen to this dude. He's not blinded by instant bias...

This is irrelevant. He was unarmed. And he was shot. Y'know how police in this country managed a few years back? They carry a tough little stick for beating people about the head with. What the fuck was the policeman doing chasing the kid with a gun? Has he not been taught in any kind of takedown or apprehension technique? Do they even bother to train the police force in America, or do they just tell them to whip out their guns for every problem?

I am not condoning the officer's actions. He panicked and took a life when he didn't need to. What I am saying is he had some reason(though not enough in my opinion) to fear for his life. And when a person is panicking and think s/he is being attacked s/he isn't going to spend a moment double checking for a weapon, the person is going to react instinctively.

And as someone has already said in this thread time and again: this is not your country, we have different environments which require different methods of law enforcement. For instance here in the US it is easy to acquire a gun relative to many countries in Europe. In the US, especially the south west, gang violence is common and gangs do not always respect officers of the law or their rights to life. These things make it standard procedure to approach unknown and possibly dangerous situations with sidearms drawn.

 

[Jake the Snake]

That's...incredibly fucked up.


And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Funkysandwich]

Oh that makes sense, you know terrorism is not a bad thing and even without that, children have never gotten in fights or SHOT UP THE SCHOOL.

I am so glad that we live in a perfect Utopian society where the school does not need any form of protection than a bad glare at those whipper schnapps who cause trouble.

I can't think of a single school where I live that has a police officer stationed at it all the time, and we seem to get by just fine.

Meanwhile in Columbine.

I don't live in America, I live in Australia. Notice the fact that nothing like that has ever happened here? We don't have cops in schools, and yet we also don't have school shootings? That's because it's a lot harder to get firearms here, and most kids wouldn't have the contacts required to get illegal firearms.

Sure, our school system has its own problems, but at least kids don't get shot or shoot each other all the time.

 

[James Crook]

the cop had been reprimanded 16 times in the previous 4 years, suspended without pay 5 times, and "recommended for termination for insubordination," but the school kept him on the force "without remedial training."

Thats all I need to read right there.

When the cop gets charged I think they should also charge whoever kept him in employment. It's just as much their fault.

The school kept him? Damn, I also heard pretty bad stories about schools in the U.S. and their idea of "enforcing rules"...

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

I do have to wonder why some school officer fella has been issued a gun.

Probably some good ol' yankee doodle American paranoia bullshit.

 

[Liam Barden]

The child caused his own death in running away in the first place. Accept the fact and we can all have a better society.

Running away from a policeman should carry the death penalty
- Arsen

Only in America...

 

[That_Swedish_Guy]

The news article posted tells the story mostly from the point of view of the mother of the boy being shot. How would she know what the boy did and didn't do when he was hiding? I'm not defending the police officer's actions, but the story seems to be biased and is clearly from the point of the wronged party. I would like to see more information before jumping to conclusions.

Welcome to the escapist!

OT, I agree completely. There is never a situation that can be succinctly explained without both sides of the story.

 

[intheweeds]

Damn. Not tremendously surprised. The police are pretty corrupt and brutal here in Toronto as well.

What would really be news is if someone could find an article where a cop has EVER been fired for bad behavior. Seriously I would like to see it. To my knowledge this has never happened. I have a hard time believing that a cop has NEVER done anything worth losing they're job over, but they never get fired so I guess all the bad eggs are just 'misunderstood'. I wish I could find a job that allowed me to literally get away with murder.

Edit: As I posted I saw the quote above me. I agree that in this case we only have one side of the story. I'm just bitching about police accountability in general, not specifically this case.

 

[Shadowkire]

Damn. Not tremendously surprised. The police are pretty corrupt and brutal here in Toronto as well.

What would really be news is if someone could find an article where a cop has EVER been fired for bad behavior. Seriously I would like to see it. To my knowledge this has never happened. I have a hard time believing that a cop has NEVER done anything worth losing they're job over, but they never get fired so I guess all the bad eggs are just 'misunderstood'. I wish I could find a job that allowed me to literally get away with murder.

In my area last year an officer lost his job because he was suspected of "conspiracy to murder" or something like that. And then he went to trial.

 

[EvilPicnic]

And this is why beat cops shouldn't carry guns...

 

[Brandon237]

Here's some of the story they "left" out.

The officer didn't see him at first, but "approached the storage shed to search further for the suspect announcing several times 'Police, Police.'"
The report also stated that the "(Lopez) lunged through the doorway at (Alvarado), intentionally knocking the shed door into (Alvarado's) face."
The report further details that "fearing for his life, (Alvarado) discharged one round striking (Lopez) in his torso."

http://www.ksat.com/news/25797958/detail.html

that doesnt change the fact that the victim was underage, which removes justification.

I don't suppose that any of y'all are criminal justice majors? Because a lot of the time the media does go overboard.

in the US its only justifiable homicide (ie you are within the law to kill the offender) if:
"homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime, such as rape, armed robbery, manslaughter or murder. The assailant's intent to commit a serious crime must be clear at the time."
therefore this is unjustifiable homicide, which is murder.

also, why does a school police officer have a gun?

Thank-you, anyone who says it is not murder because a trained police officer had the door slammed into his face, is not in their right mind. After reading both accounts, I still think that this is gross misconduct by: The cop, The school, the police force in the area. Charge them all!

 

[GreyDevil]

Where I'm from this would only make back page in the paper if it was a very lucky special case and it was a day without any other bad news. Seriously last year over 15000 people were murdered in my country. The police hierarchy is too busy lining their pockets with tax payer money to give a damn about it's citizens.

 

[intheweeds]

Damn. Not tremendously surprised. The police are pretty corrupt and brutal here in Toronto as well.

What would really be news is if someone could find an article where a cop has EVER been fired for bad behavior. Seriously I would like to see it. To my knowledge this has never happened. I have a hard time believing that a cop has NEVER done anything worth losing they're job over, but they never get fired so I guess all the bad eggs are just 'misunderstood'. I wish I could find a job that allowed me to literally get away with murder.

In my area last year an officer lost his job because he was suspected of "conspiracy to murder" or something like that. And then he went to trial.

Did he lose his job completely? Or is he on 'paid admin leave' or something until the trial is sorted out? We have a few officers on 'paid leave' right now while they're mob conspiracy trials go on. Not that I don't believe you, but it really is something I need to see to believe.