I've seen a lot of stories lately on the Police in the US. This is by far the worst.

[Clive Howlitzer]

Negative stories get a lot more notice than positive ones. Police aren't nearly as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Even Police in the United States. I work at a department and a lot of them want to do a lot of good. This kind of crap can and will happen anywhere, it doesn't matter what country it is.

 

[Vidiot]

where I come from, this is all pretty standard. Disgusting, horrible, and disturbing, but standard. Police will drag you out of your car, beat you, cuff you, throw you in the back of their car, then they'll search your vehicle before telling you why they pulled you over.

If you're lucky, you'll make it back to the station. If you're not, they'll drive you out to the middle of nowhere, strip you and put a gun to your head. They'll then make you dig a hole that they convince you will be your own grave. Then they leave you there, and put your clothes and possessions back with the car. If you protest in court they accuse you of being on drugs and fleeing the car naked.

 

[Sneipen]

Wait, American schools have cops in them now? What kind of society have you got running over there, guys?

Seconded! Really, the first question that springs to mind for me is "Wait! Schools in USA have armed police stationed there?". Seriously guys, what the heck? Are you telling me it is common practice to have armed police assigned to secondary and high schools? For me, this does not make any sense what so ever.
Second question that springs to mind is "What exactly is a school police officer?"
It's a school, not a prison. Almost everyone attending a regular school is regular kids, not prison inmates just waiting for the chance to go psycho and murder everything and their dog!

Sencierly: puzzeled Norwegian

 

[Kingsnake661]

People people... I can't claim to know what accually happened, but, lets think abit. The boy was in the middle of an assult when the cop found him. So, from the cops point of view, he was violent.

The kid was hiding in a shed, the cop couldn't see him, this presents the cop with an unknown veariable, has the kid found a weapon of some type in the shed? If the kid had accually cracked the cop in the face with the door, and maybe managed to get his gun... it's not a far strech to belive the cop was in fear for his life...

So, from the cops point of view, we have a violent kid, evading arrest, possible with a weapon now, laying in wait, and tries an ambush attack. "But he's 14..." So? I personally know 13 year olds that are *nearly* as big as I am. If they were to get the jump on me, with a weapon of some sort, I MIGHT accually be in trouble... And IMO, 14 is OLD ENOUGH to know not to RUN from the police.

But, at the end of the day, i don't *really* know what happened. I can't judge if the cop overreacted or not. I doubt anyone here can either. All I do know is that it was tragic, and i feel for his family.

 

[Shadowkire]

Wait, American schools have cops in them now? What kind of society have you got running over there, guys?

Seconded! Really, the first question that springs to mind for me is "Wait! Schools in USA have armed police stationed there?". Seriously guys, what the heck? Are you telling me it is common practice to have armed police assigned to secondary and high schools? For me, this does not make any sense what so ever.
Second question that springs to mind is "What exactly is a school police officer?"
It's a school, not a prison. Almost everyone attending a regular school is regular kids, not prison inmates just waiting for the chance to go psycho and murder everything and their dog!

Sencierly: puzzeled Norwegian

After the Columbine shooting, Google it if you need to, and other similar events schools began asking law enforcement to have an officer on site as a safety precaution. Indeed, almost everyone attending regular schools is a regular kid, but almost everyone is not everyone.

And the school the dead kid attended wasn't a regular school

Gonzalez said Monday that Lopez had been expelled from Pease Middle School and then from from a Northside alternative school and was attending the Bexar County Juvenile Justice Academy.

 

[Nisselue]

People people... I can't claim to know what accually happened, but, lets think abit. The boy was in the middle of an assult when the cop found him. So, from the cops point of view, he was violent.

The kid was hiding in a shed, the cop couldn't see him, this presents the cop with an unknown veariable, has the kid found a weapon of some type in the shed? If the kid had accually cracked the cop in the face with the door, and maybe managed to get his gun... it's not a far strech to belive the cop was in fear for his life...

In Norway the cop would have used his brain and stayed at a distance making sure the kid didn't escape while he is calling for backup (2 - 4 police officers with shields and battons, but that is only if they are afraid the person is armed in some way.). And in Norway there is two police officers together 99.9% of the time, we never have a lonely policeman walking around.

You are asking for trouble if you are going to give a policeman a gun while he is all by himself in scary situations.

 

[Kingsnake661]

People people... I can't claim to know what accually happened, but, lets think abit. The boy was in the middle of an assult when the cop found him. So, from the cops point of view, he was violent.

The kid was hiding in a shed, the cop couldn't see him, this presents the cop with an unknown veariable, has the kid found a weapon of some type in the shed? If the kid had accually cracked the cop in the face with the door, and maybe managed to get his gun... it's not a far strech to belive the cop was in fear for his life...

In Norway the cop would have used his brain and stayed at a distance making sure the kid didn't escape while he is calling for backup (2 - 4 police officers with shields and battons, but that is only if they are afraid the person is armed in some way.). And in Norway there is two police officers together 99.9% of the time, we never have a lonely policeman walking around.

You are asking for trouble if you are going to give a policeman a gun while he is all by himself in scary situations.

Good for Norway. (I'm being serious) But, that isn't currently the situatuion here in the US. The police forces around the country are streched pretty thin, and you make do with what you have. Not to mention the fact i'm sure there are a few stupid cops in Norway too, stictically it has to be so. ;-) Keep in mind i'm not really DEFENDING what the cop did as much as pointing out it's not as black and white as people are making the situation out to be. People are too quick to jump to conclusions without giving situations a proper and though examination.

 

[renegade7]

Fearing for his life or not, are you seriously telling me a (presumably) trained and in good shape police officer couldn't subdue a 14 year old without his gun?

 

[Kingsnake661]

You really think a 14 year old is responsible enough for their actions to deserve death in this case? What country are you from, evidently not one where the age for drinking, smoking, age of consent, marriage, death penalty etc are all higher than that age.

Also there was absolutely no reason to think he might have a weapon and honestly if a grown man feels threatened by a 14 year old, he shouldn't be in the police force.

*eyerolls*

Yes I DO belive 14 year olds are old enough to know right from wrong, and in some cases are physically large enough to present a threat. Esspecally if they get there hands on a weapon. From, oh, i don't know.. the SHED they were hiding in? Lots and Lots of teenagers kill people every year here in the States. It's not uncommon, and in some contries, they accually make up a part of military. (in some African countries like Dar 4 and the Congo..) And this kid was alreay demenstraiting his violent nature, by, you know, assulting someone which started off the whole situation...

This isn't to say the cop couldn't have handled the situation better, he really could have, but, to just assume this officer wasn't in some kind danger because the kid was 14 is wrong.

 

[Thyunda]

From the OP's second link:

Gonzalez said Monday that Lopez had been expelled from Pease Middle School and then from from a Northside alternative school and was attending the Bexar County Juvenile Justice Academy.

So this wasn't your average high school. It was a "one step away from juvenile hall(kid's jail)" school. And correct me if I am wrong but the officer encountered this kid beating someone up. Later the officer catches up with the kid at a garden shed and the kid rams the officer with the shed door.

So let us review the situation: a kid in a school of violent kids who was just caught beating someone up rams an officer of the law. Sounds to me like the officer was a bit jumpy but I can understand why he would have felt threatened for a moment.

Oh and for those of you who think they wouldn't have felt threatened by a "child," a 14 year old is usually just a few inches short of his/er maximum height. This kid wasn't scrawny either, you can see a picture of him in the links the OP posted.

Listen to this dude. He's not blinded by instant bias...

This is irrelevant. He was unarmed. And he was shot. Y'know how police in this country managed a few years back? They carry a tough little stick for beating people about the head with. What the fuck was the policeman doing chasing the kid with a gun? Has he not been taught in any kind of takedown or apprehension technique? Do they even bother to train the police force in America, or do they just tell them to whip out their guns for every problem?

I am not condoning the officer's actions. He panicked and took a life when he didn't need to. What I am saying is he had some reason(though not enough in my opinion) to fear for his life. And when a person is panicking and think s/he is being attacked s/he isn't going to spend a moment double checking for a weapon, the person is going to react instinctively.

And as someone has already said in this thread time and again: this is not your country, we have different environments which require different methods of law enforcement. For instance here in the US it is easy to acquire a gun relative to many countries in Europe. In the US, especially the south west, gang violence is common and gangs do not always respect officers of the law or their rights to life. These things make it standard procedure to approach unknown and possibly dangerous situations with sidearms drawn.

And if their first reaction to movement is to pull the trigger then that's just poor training. The police don't exist to shoot the shit out of people. They are supposed to be an example in restraint. You can't just shoot people because you 'panicked'.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Now, I'll beleive the cop misfired his gun. It happens, ask any cop/soldier/peacekeeper/etc. especially since this is texas, and at that San Antonio Texas, which is less then 300 miles from Mexico's Nuevo Leon. And we all know the shit that Mexico's been dealing with. I wouldnt go anyhwere in texas without at least a Nine and maybe some kevlar if I could spring it. Also considering that the boy hid in a shed, and thinking to the shed on my uncles property containing all of the following (but not limiting to):

- 3 axes
- 4 rakes
- 2 tire rims
- 5 separate brand name pesticides
- 3 different types of rifles (with no less then 200 rounds of ammo for each)
-

*blink*

In a garden shed?!?

You quoted the wrong person, but yes.

I live in western PA, hunting is big here. Those are just his hunting rifles/crowd controllers should we have a bit of "civil unrest" as he calls it that threatens his property in a way he doesnt care for.

Now granted this isnt just a garden shed but an all purpose shed that i think has a floor area of 180 ft squared (18Lx10W), and the shed walls themselves are something like 9 ft tall, so two are 10x9 and one is 18x9, and the fourth is 4x9 with a 14x9 double door space Plus theres bare rafters where he can put planks of wood across to hang stuff up (and does). Theres a lot of space in it that he keeps what he considers too cumbersome/unnecessary to keep int he house.

AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You really have a misconception of texas. It is NOT the wild wild west here. In fact guns are rarely toted except for a few people that keep a small pistol in their night stand for self defense and ones used for hunting. Texas isn't nearly as dangerous as say...new york at night.

And yes I have a .22 pistol and I'm planning on a .38 5 round to carry around on campus for self defense since texas made it legal now -__-.

Yeah, but saying that texas isnt as danger as new york at night is like saying that new york at night isnt as dangerous as say, somalia, 24/7. XD Besides, it was mostly an over exaggerated joke. One of my last few gfs was from texas, and id always say stuff like that just to piss her off (thats not why we broke up). I know texas isnt THAT dangerous.

 

[JoJo]

You really think a 14 year old is responsible enough for their actions to deserve death in this case? What country are you from, evidently not one where the age for drinking, smoking, age of consent, marriage, death penalty etc are all higher than that age.

Also there was absolutely no reason to think he might have a weapon and honestly if a grown man feels threatened by a 14 year old, he shouldn't be in the police force.

*eyerolls*

Yes I DO belive 14 year olds are old enough to know right from wrong, and in some cases are physically large enough to present a threat. Esspecally if they get there hands on a weapon. From, oh, i don't know.. the SHED they were hiding in? Lots and Lots of teenagers kill people every year here in the States. It's not uncommon, and in some contries, they accually make up a part of military. (in some African countries like Dar 4 and the Congo..) And this kid was alreay demenstraiting his violent nature, by, you know, assulting someone which started off the whole situation...

This isn't to say the cop couldn't have handled the situation better, he really could have, but, to just assume this officer wasn't in some kind danger because the kid was 14 is wrong.

Okay firstly, you confused me for a second there, it would help if you had mentioned you weren't the guy I quoted as I almost thought you were him. Luckily I checked though so that isn't a problem.

Anyway, sorry but nothing you say can say to me justify killing a child in this situation. Yes, 14 is still a child, one of my brothers will be 14 in less than 2 months so I can guarantee that. Also "assaulting" a peer is a fairly common teenage trait and certainly does not mean one deserves to die. If he was a rapist or a murderer then I would be slightly more understanding of the policeman's fear but this kid was no more than a regular troubled teen.

Finally, he NEVER actually had a weapon. Simply saying that he might of is a poor excuse as any criminal could possibly have a weapon concealed on them, doesn't mean we should shoot every poor bugger who in any way resists arrest on sight.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

This is about a 14 year old boy, in school, who simply panicked. First, why DRAW A GUN!? And not even having the safety on? That police officer, he went it, fearing a 14 year old that much, that he took with him a loaded gun, and then either shot him on purpose, or got the door slammed into him, if the latter, he should have had the safety on, if not he was a idiot, and fired by mistake, or, he put off the safety and shot an unarmed boy, which I'd call murder.

also, why does a school police officer have a gun?

Police officers employed by educational institutes are still full fledged police officers with regular police powers.

Schools may also employ plain ole security guards, but police can be employed as well.

well then i'll rephrase:
why does the officer have a loaded gun when he's on duty at a school.

I explained this already, look up. This is not the UK, the situation is different and the police act accordingly.

in the UK there are kids with knives and drugs, and our police dont even use tasers. and this kid didnt pull a weapon and there was no intent to kill. and anyway, pulling a gun on every kid who has a fight is going to do two things:
1. make them more jumpy and likely to run and fight back
2. make them fear for their life, buy an illegal gun and then pull it in a school full of innocent civilians because a cop moved his hand towards the vicinity of his gun.

and giving the school police guns isnt going to stop kids arming themselves, its just going to give them another reason. the next time a cop even looks like he's reaching for his gun, if what you said is accurate, then he might end up with a gang of kids knifing him.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Here's some of the story they "left" out.

The officer didn't see him at first, but "approached the storage shed to search further for the suspect announcing several times 'Police, Police.'"
The report also stated that the "(Lopez) lunged through the doorway at (Alvarado), intentionally knocking the shed door into (Alvarado's) face."
The report further details that "fearing for his life, (Alvarado) discharged one round striking (Lopez) in his torso."

http://www.ksat.com/news/25797958/detail.html

that doesnt change the fact that the victim was underage, which removes justification.

Just because he's young doesn't mean he's a good person.

14 year olds can still have guns and knives and can still kill people.

I'm not trying to justify what the cop did I'm just saying.

yeah they can but as i also said in that post, intent to kill is needed for the entire situation to justify killing an adult. killing a minor is even worse.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

You really think a 14 year old is responsible enough for their actions to deserve death in this case? What country are you from, evidently not one where the age for drinking, smoking, age of consent, marriage, death penalty etc are all higher than that age.

Also there was absolutely no reason to think he might have a weapon and honestly if a grown man feels threatened by a 14 year old, he shouldn't be in the police force.

*eyerolls*

Yes I DO belive 14 year olds are old enough to know right from wrong, and in some cases are physically large enough to present a threat. Esspecally if they get there hands on a weapon. From, oh, i don't know.. the SHED they were hiding in? Lots and Lots of teenagers kill people every year here in the States. It's not uncommon, and in some contries, they accually make up a part of military. (in some African countries like Dar 4 and the Congo..) And this kid was alreay demenstraiting his violent nature, by, you know, assulting someone which started off the whole situation...

This isn't to say the cop couldn't have handled the situation better, he really could have, but, to just assume this officer wasn't in some kind danger because the kid was 14 is wrong.

You can totally know right from wrong at the age of 14. That's why children and teenagers of all ages are legally adults.