J.J. Abrams Says Gay Characters Are Coming to Star Wars

[AstaresPanda]

ok. But why the fook should it matter ? Waht is this obbesssion with gender these days, just get the fuck on with it and keep what ever team ya on to yaself, it should not have this much importance. During the entire movie i was never thinking "wow this movie is great but its lacking gay ppls" WTF.

 

[Abomination]

The best way to have a gay character is to make no notice of it at all, for it to just be a tangential thing that occurs on the side and nobody else in the film bats an eye.

Back at the cantina everyone's celebrating the destruction of the Death Star Mk.3 and Poe's getting very flirty with a guy. And that's all we see of it.

Sexuality established, nobody cares, everyone moves on.

But no, we gotta run that capitalist pandering thing into it. So it'll likely be some big emotional tragic story arc of oppression and discrimination.

 

[StormShaun]

Uh huh...
Okay.
Now, not to sound like a dick, this is fine and such, but I'm sure there are better things to say.
Like the announcement of new characters, the return of Kyle Katarn (I hope. :'D), more Captain Phasma, and how Finn could be a Jedi. (my other hope, in my opinion, I think a Stormtrooper who becomes a Jedi Gaurdian would be sick. But never mind that is a topic for another thread)

In all seriousness though, at this stage in humanity, we shouldn't really treat this as something special. Heck, there was a gay character in one of then new Star Wars books, and it was treated as something normal. (Well, at least from my view.)

You mean to say that all this time, there hasn't been a single one in the galaxy?

Sure, man. Whatever you say.

Well, it is possible.
Fictional worlds roll with their own rules, who's to say that such a thing even exists.
I mean, of course, that can go for so many, many things.

I bet there is even a fictional universe where toast doesn't even exist.
That people didn't even find a way to cook bread.
I know, a terrible fate, but it is possible.

Plus then you'd have to factor in if humans (and aliens) exist, or if dinosaurs still roam the Earth and found a way to invent social order.

Still, that fucking universe that doesn't have toast... poor buggers.

Bottom line, fiction will fiction. Authors can become a kitten with a ball of yarn in some cases.

EDIT: Although then again, if they don't touch upon the subject, it can fall into the schrodinger's cat paradox. Something can exist and not exist until the author firmly decides the fate of said topic.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Uh, this wouldn't exactly be breaking new ground for Star Wars films. The Clone Wars movie featured Ziro the Hutt, after all.

...Then again, the less said about him, the better...

Let's be honest here; romance has never been a strength of the series, regardless of sexual orientation. Only one of the films made it a central focus, and we all know how well that went over. Even the "genuine" relationship with Han and Leia is corny as hell ("I love you!" "I know").

Call me crazy, but it would probably be best to keep the focus on, you know, the wars in the stars. They can make characters gay/bi/pan/attack helicopter or whatever, just don't dwell on it or make it their defining feature.

 

[LordLundar]

Ian Mckellan is openly gay... "openly" doesn't mean "ostentatiously" it just means that it isn't being actively hidden.

Yes, but that is reality. Hollywood on the other hand treats "openly gay" as "reminding you every other scene said person is gay".

 

[Lightspeaker]

I don't really care, but the wording "openly gay" makes me think that instead of this kind of gay
We'll get something like this

Ian Mckellan is openly gay... "openly" doesn't mean "ostentatiously" it just means that it isn't being actively hidden.

The problem is that you only know the sexuality of a character if it explicitly comes up, which is usually done ostentatiously and in a very obvious way, as a general rule Hollywood isn't known for its subtlety. Think back through the Star Wars films...I think the people you KNOW the sexual orientation of across the seven films (through those films, that is) can probably be counted on your fingers. The rest? They could be anything.

I honestly have no idea how they're going to work it. I mean...its not as if gay people go around with a sign on their head informing the world that they're gay. If you talk to Ian McKellan about his work on Lord of the Rings then you're unlikely to work out that he's gay from that conversation unless it specifically comes up.

I'm kinda hoping its Finn and Poe though. Because the internet reaction would be positively insane. X-D


Edit: And LordLundar ninjad me in a far more concise way than I put it. X-D

 

[JimB]

And this would make Stars wars better how? Oh yeah, "gay culture" or the "gay community" will throw money at them and no I'm not being sarcastic. I'm all for this progression in society; however, when a group is being exploited by capitalism, I'll stand against it in principle.

How do you define "exploited," mad825? Because if giving people something they want is exploitation, then we're all fucked.

Why don't you just put it in there, and not make a big deal out of it? I honestly don't understand why people feel the need to announce things like this to the world.

Mr. Abrams was an event where someone explicitly asked him the question. He answered it. It's not like he wrote an unsolicited letter to the Escapist saying, "Please publish a story about how people in Star Wars are gonna be gay."

It's the "openly" gay part that has me worried.

Until we see the implementation, I have no reason to believe "openly gay" means anything other than "not something you have to be reading super hard between the lines to spot, like Dumbledore or that woman whose name I forget from the 1959 version of House on Haunted Hill. At worst, I assume it means people who think a gay character acknowledging his own homosexuality is "rubbing it in the audience's face" are people who will be upset.

J.J., you don't get to claim to be the first creative mind to do this in Star Wars.

I missed the part where he said that or anything like it.

Also, why is J.J. acting like he has George Lucas levels of control over Star Wars?

What specific words did he say that even imply that? How is he not just answering a question he knows the answer to?

I would totally make my day if that was going to be Rey.

Nah, it's gonna be a gay man. There aren't enough women in the galaxy for a woman to be gay with.

Joking aside, though, I have seen plenty of beautiful women on TV who are attracted to other beautiful women. It's been done, and I'm frankly often suspicious of it given Hollywood's crass shamelessness about trying to exploit female sexuality for money. I hope it's men. Let the gay brothers have some positive representation onscreen.

Why the fook should it matter?

Why shouldn't it? What about you personally not caring means your tastes are so correct they should be proscribed to everyone else?

People care about things that matter to them. I don't get why anyone should have to justify that to you.

 

[Something Amyss]

Um, ok? Not really sure it has to be stated in advance - or why this is newsworthy at all.

Because people are having temper tantrums over blacks and women?

And this would make Stars wars better how?

I know, right? Unlike straight characters, gays need some sort of justification to exist or something. Clearly, this is exploitation because ponies.

There have been gays in Star Wars since Juhani in 2003, and Goran Beviin and his husband from like 2007=8. The difference is that theses were never publicized as selling points. They were just sort of there.

The other difference is that these were specified EU, and this article differentiates. It even outright states there have been gay EU characters. And neither has anyone been publicised as selling points. Abrams was asked, and he answered.

OH NOES! Will somebody please think of the children. The end days are upon us. THE GAY AGENDA IS TAKING STAR WARS FROM US!

You joke, but this has literally been the point of a campaign of Star Wars fans.

I think The Escapist even reported on it a couple years ago, before everyone got riled up over a black stormtrooper.

As long as the movies are good I'm a happy camper.

Pun intended?

 

[Something Amyss]

Superb! I'm sure injecting even more political correctness into Star Wars is going to help the movies lots!

Where exactly did they inject the previous "political correctness?" Before or after TFA became the third highest grossing film?

Then again, iuf "there are gays in this film" is "political correctness," Empire was very likely "PC."

While, yes, this shouldn't need to be announced, in that it shouldn't be a big deal, unfortunately in our present society, it still very much is.

Hell, remember when it was a big deal to have a black stormtrooper? Asking "why is this important?" strikes me as a bit naive.

Well, it's not so much being announced as it was asked and answered. This is kind of like whenever Al Sharpton gets paid for his opinion on CNN or MSNBC and people act as though he forced his way into the studio and demanded airtime. Neither are an unsolicited opinion, and both were prompted.

And it's not so much naive as it is a lot of the same people who did that trying to make this something it isn't.

You will see a lot of the people who commented on the black stormtrooper in here.

I mean, that's good and all, but surely it's a bit.. 'Hey everyone lookit the gays!'

It's more:

Abrams: inclusivity.
Question: even gays?
Abrams: even gays.

It's not even like this is being paraded about.

How do you define "exploited," mad825? Because if giving people something they want is exploitation, then we're all fucked.

My SO linked me to a now defunct blog once which covered this pretty well. Since it's now defunct, I can't give you an exact quote, but it was something like "only white men featured prominently in movies? Well, of course, they're going to pander to the biggest audience! Women and People of Colour featured prominently in movies? Don't you see they're just pandering to you?"

Straights and whites and men are pandered to constantly in this society, but it's only when someone else is pandered to that it's wrong or exploitation.

But I think the important thing is that someone is here to tell us silly queers that we don't know what's good for us.

At worst, I assume it means people who think a gay character acknowledging his own homosexuality is "rubbing it in the audience's face" are people who will be upset.

I suspect that's the issue, though. There seems to be a push for gay characters you can't tell are gay.

Nah, it's gonna be a gay man. There aren't enough women in the galaxy for a woman to be gay with.

Nah, that's why Phasma's around. I mean, why else would they heavily feature a second named female character from a Star Wars movie in all sorts of media?

Joking aside, though, I have seen plenty of beautiful women on TV who are attracted to other beautiful women. It's been done, and I'm frankly often suspicious of it given Hollywood's crass shamelessness about trying to exploit female sexuality for money. I hope it's men. Let the gay brothers have some positive representation onscreen.

It's Star Wars. I'm not sure anything it does is positive representation.

 

[MrFalconfly]

I would totally make my day if that was going to be Rey.

Nah, it's gonna be a gay man. There aren't enough women in the galaxy for a woman to be gay with.

Joking aside, though, I have seen plenty of beautiful women on TV who are attracted to other beautiful women. It's been done, and I'm frankly often suspicious of it given Hollywood's crass shamelessness about trying to exploit female sexuality for money. I hope it's men. Let the gay brothers have some positive representation onscreen.

Oh please let it be Poe Dameron.

And as people (including me in this thread) has said before.

Please, please, PLEASE, don't sledgehammer the point across, and turn Poe into the typical hollywood gay (I know that's a big ask, but one can hope right?).

 

[JimB]

I think the important thing is that someone is here to tell us silly queers that we don't know what's good for us.

I thought about adding something to my post about how goddamned disheartening it is to see how many people in this thread had elected themselves censors (in the more classical sense of the term than the one they're probably thinking of) who get to regulate what is and is not good for gay people in terms of representation in media, and how often they seem to think that what's good for gay people is to be quiet almost to the point of silence and still almost to the point of invisibility. I decided not to write it because it depressed me.

Nah, that's why Phasma's around. I mean, why else would they heavily feature a second named female character from a Star Wars movie in all sorts of media?

To sell toys of an antagonist.

 

[Something Amyss]

Shipping aside, we've already had gay characters. At least four of them.

It seems pretty clear they're talking about the films. Can you name four gay characters in the films?

I thought about adding something to my post about how goddamned disheartening it is to see how many people in this thread had elected themselves censors (in the more classical sense of the term than the one they're probably thinking of) who get to regulate what is and is not good for gay people in terms of representation in media, and how often they seem to think that what's good for gay people is to be quiet almost to the point of silence and still almost to the point of invisibility. I decided not to write it because it depressed me.

Well, I mean, this goes to a larger theme of "it's only censorship when I don't want it." I've made the point recently in threads on the matter that the people who are complaining the loudest about censorship never seemto care when a hot male is covered up, or LGBT individuals are removed from a product.

I mean, if it was a teenage girl being groped, then it'd be cultural marxism to complain about it being included. But since it's gays?

*shrug*

Censorship is okay, I guess.

To sell toys of an antagonist.

That's just silly. Why would girls by action figures?

<..>

<.<

Shut up! I totally don't count!

 

[omega 616]

Not a fan of this, not out of some hatred towards gay people but 'cos a character should be gay 'cos the character is gay, not have a gay character 'cos we need a gay character.

We shouldn't be including people for the sake of including, we should be making well written stories, with well written characters. I like that guy from Mass effect, his partner died and he just happens to drop into the conversation that he is gay ... it's not like he is some hyper camp guy, making it super obvious he is gay. I don't remember them advertising the fact that it would have a gay guy in it, it was just pleasantly dropped into conversation and then nothing more was said about it, which is how I think it should be done.

Things should be done like they don't matter 'cos they shouldn't matter ... like I am not super up to date on the whole Oscar thing but we shouldn't be in a position where we have a token black guy or a token Asian. People should be nominated 'cos they did well and not 'cos they have a certain colour of skin.

 

[happyninja42]

is the character going to be written well, directed well, acted well, and presented well, with character elements that are relevant to the plot?

Yes? Then I don't really care what their sexual orientation is, and will enjoy the well made character.

No? Then I still don't really care what their sexual orientation is, and will be pissed at a poorly crafted character taking up screen time without contributing to the quality of the story.

 

[EbonBehelit]

Technically it's not unfeasible to believe that - even if you only take the 6 films into account - there have been many gay on-screen characters in Star Wars. They just didn't confide it to anyone... and why would they need to; we're talking about a hyper-futuristic interstellar civilization here, one in which (looking at our own progress) homosexuality has likely been considered completely normal for thousands of years.

If it's normal, there's no history of oppression or personal issues to use for a character's arc, which of course means that being gay would barely qualify as a character trait at all. Like being straight, it becomes completely mundane.

What I'm getting at here, is that making romance/sexuality a prominent trait of any character is a recipe for disaster. Hell, romance barely has a place in Star Wars to begin with, especially since they've only managed to pull it off once (the prequels obviously don't count, since what transpired on-screen barely qualified as humans talking to each other, let alone chemistry).

 

[Something Amyss]

is the character going to be written well, directed well, acted well, and presented well, with character elements that are relevant to the plot?

This is Star Wars, so several of those are out right off the bat.

Though the rest of your post is point taken. Could you imagine if people were upset because Anakin was straight, rather than that the romance in the prequels was shit?

Not a fan of this, not out of some hatred towards gay people but 'cos a character should be gay 'cos the character is gay, not have a gay character 'cos we need a gay character.

Well, that's not what Abrams said, but how do we decide if a gay character is gay because they're gay? Especially when any gay--hell, any minority, or woman--is accused of the same thing?

Technically it's not unfeasible to believe that - even if you only take the 6 films into account - there have been many gay on-screen characters in Star Wars. They just didn't tell anybody about it... and why would they need to?

Well, you had me until this:

Based on the futuristic setting, compared to our own societal progress, it'd be easy to believe that homosexuality has been considered a relatively normal and acceptable thing for thousands of years in-universe.

Let's ignore for a moment that Star Wars isn't horribly progressive. Let's take this at face value.

If that was the case, I'd expect you'd see more gays onscreen. People wouldn't need to make a big deal about coming out, no. But if homosexuality as a societal issue has been licked, then I would expect to see people partnered up far more casually.

That is, you will see more gays on the street once it's no longer a big deal to be gay. You might see fewer flamboyant people who look like they came off a float in a pride parade, but you will see more gays. Doing gay things. Even small things. LGBT individuals tend towards discretion in most circumstances specifically because there's an element of fear and/or taboo, actual danger, and because there's social inertia. Me and my SO get treated differently than a hetero couple for doing the same things.

So now you've actually established a very different question: with no reason to hide it, why would they need to? The answer is they wouldn't, and therefore we should expect it to show. Queers of any stripe sneak around today because we're still frowned upon. I fear for my life. But clearly, in this futuristic society where gay is normal, we shouldn't have to.

And in the end, that leaves the real issue: heteronormativity on the part of the viewer leads to inertia.

 

[FFHAuthor]

Am I allowed to be pulling my hair out over this as a writer and ask what a character's sexual orientation brings to the story? Am I allowed to do that at any point?

I know I'm an evil homophobic white male for asking about the basic concepts of having something as a character's sexuality having a bearing in the universe that it exists in. Sexuality and relationships aren't an issue which is of paramount or even passing concern in the Star Wars universe. So making a character gay and going to the extent of pointing it out in the story and addressing it only makes sense if it changes the dynamic and situation of the story within the universe.

A character's sexuality in something set in say...90's America in a sit-com, is a big deal, in say 70's America in a political drama, is a big deal...a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, about space magic and civil wars, not exactly that big a deal, unless you've developed a society and culture where sexuality and relationships are the primary focus...not space battles and planetary death lasers, and the trials of good and evil.

If you decide to insert that issue into this film it's a statement to the audience about the audience, not a statement to audience about the story and characters. Where is the gay bashing scene in Star Wars? No where. Where is the scene of a character confronting his sexuality in a culture that condemns him and trying to come to grips with what is right and what is wrong according to society? No where!

It's that nauseating pandering and that demand that every aspect of our Art and cultural understanding conform to the norms and accepted positions of RIGHT NOW. It's like making a TV show set in medieval England and casting a black actress, but not actually using the fact that she's black, just treating her like any other character. Or casting an Asian actor in a movie about 1940's California and then NOT having that character treated like an Asian woman would be viewed in 40's California. This artistic censoring and quota creates works of film that are so divorced from reality in an attempt to be 'fair' and 'inclusive' that we lose the point of what is being created.

Film is a stage that demands it address stories that can be told about Race and Sexuality and Gender, it demands honesty to the story and the vision, and it demands that characters be crafted to enhance the story which they exist in. Should Star Wars be about more than simply a checklist for all the right affirmative action topics? Woman, check. Black, check. Gay, check.

Is that right? Does that create a character worth creating?

 

[Saltyk]

You mean to say that all this time, there hasn't been a single one in the galaxy?

Sure, man. Whatever you say.

Well, there's only like four black men in the whole galaxy. Lando, Mace Windu, Captain Panaka, and Finn.

 

[Barbas]

(Snip).

Fucking hell, does that include the comics and books as well?

 

[Saltyk]

(Snip).

Fucking hell, does that include the comics and books as well?

No. Just the movies. I haven't read any of the comics or books to know.
I was mostly posting that as a joke.