J.J. Abrams Says Gay Characters Are Coming to Star Wars

[FirstNameLastName]

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

 

[Strazdas]

There's more to it than that. The Clones from the clone wars suffer from accelerated aging, so they would not be in prime condition to fight in the army by the time A New Hope takes place. The Empire cut corners and went with regular recruits because it was cheaper. As a result, you had stormtroopers with varying levels of skill and an overall weaker army.

This assumes that all clones are grown at once. There is nothing stopping Empire from growing new clones for A New Hope as far as i know.

Cloning facilities were destroyed if we can consider that canon still.

Something as big and spread out as The Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

 

[JimB]

Something as big and spread out as the Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

I don't understand why they would want to rebuild the cloning facilities. You can't convince me cloning new soldiers is more cost-effective than conscription. It might produce less skilled soldiers, but so what? What does the Empire care? They just feed the Stormtroopers to the wrong end of a blaster's barrel anyway; any bad soldiers will get the Empire's losses cut on the battlefield.

 

[Strazdas]

Something as big and spread out as the Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

I don't understand why they would want to rebuild the cloning facilities. You can't convince me cloning new soldiers is more cost-effective than conscription. It might produce less skilled soldiers, but so what? What does the Empire care? They just feed the Stormtroopers to the wrong end of a blaster's barrel anyway; any bad soldiers will get the Empire's losses cut on the battlefield.

That depends really on a few things. How expensive is cloning in Star Wars Universe. How much benefits do the soldiers get. How much Empire cares about their soldiers being drones without personal opinion or they just take the losses that some will get morally righteous and defect to the rebels. Conscription also lowers security in that rebels may infiltrate the ranks. What does the Empire care about is indeed the question. We do know that at least at one point it cared enough to think Clones were worth the effort.

 

[happyninja42]

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

I have no idea, but whenever he says space diapers, all I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, where Luke is floating in the bacta tank wearing a big ass diaper. So you know, I don't really see how this is out of character for Star Wars, as there is an example of it in the original trilogy.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

I have no idea, but whenever he says space diapers, all I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, where Luke is floating in the bacta tank wearing a big ass diaper. So you know, I don't really see how this is out of character for Star Wars, as there is an example of it in the original trilogy.

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

The context of the line in question is a taunt during a fight between two characters. Said quote is "I've been doing this since before you were in space diapers."

So no, it's not a comment on what guys in space ships for long lengths of time wear, it's not a comment on the bacta tank undies (And seriously dude, that's a weak defense. Why the HELL would they call it a space diaper?) it's something little babies in the star wars universe. Space Diapers. Not just regular diapers no, they gotta be SPACE diapers, because everything is in space and all.

Seriously, it's a thing I would expect from the goddamn JETSONS! I can buy Diapers being a thing in Star Wars, but calling them Space Diapers is like calling a Nerf a Space Oxen. =

Combine this with TIE Fighters that "wibbles and wobbles through the air, careening drunkenly across the Myrran rooftops - it zigzags herkily-jerkily out of sight.", Admiral Akbar not being able to shut up about traps, too many characters trying to use a land speeder so they hitch up a corpse for one of them to ride like a surf board (Go watch the speeder chase in Episode 6 and tell me how well that would work.), and an author who decided that anyone who freaking hated this piece of crap is apparently just homophobic, and TELL me that this piece of shit on paper isn't worse than ANYTHING the old EU put out!
The worse thing is, it actually gets worse. Here's another quote.

"The pilot, Wedge Antilles, once Red Leader and now?well, now something else, a role without a formal title, as yet, because things are so new, so different, so wildly up in the air?sits there and takes a moment."

A serious publication would reject the entire book on this section alone. It's clunky. Navigating it is like traversing a freshly-logged hill. There's no safe place to put your footing, no ease of rest, the cadence forces you to read right to the end to actually be able to parse what the fuck he's saying. As one of my old college professors would have put it, "it's like chewing on gravel."

Seriously, read that out-loud and tell me if that sounds pleasurable to your ear or not. It's like this guy is confused about what kind of sounds do what. It's so cacophonic that it's damn-near unreadable.

Alternatively, I could just simply note that it's distracting run-on sentence, but that doesn't do the problem justice.

I've actually seen better prose that I've instantly rejected, or at least thrown into the slush pile. I hate to say this, but I would actually read Denning or Traviss over this garbage.

 

[Something Amyss]

The cloning facility was created and ran by aliens. So rebuilding it would require the Empire to work with said aliens to get it done.

Also, the Empire had a radically different philosophy towards combat, so why would they go to the expense of rebuilding?

Their stormtroopers are cannon fodder, their TIEs disposable, and they rely on shock and awe more than skill. Using humans just seems more cost-efficient, if you don't care how many die.

 

[Lightknight]

"J.J. Abrams Says Gay Characters Are Coming to Star Wars" Phrasing, boom.

Anyone else get an image of people in gay character cosplay getting off on Star Wars?

Joking aside, I'm not sure what people are expecting him to do here with what he said. I was pretty sure that there were already gay characters in the franchise. When asking for gay characters are they asking for the portrayal of the relationship or just a character whose bio says 'gay'? Because the latter is the most likely for him to pull off in a Disney movie.

 

[Something Amyss]

And seriously dude, that's a weak defense. Why the HELL would they call it a space diaper?

I don't know, why are there so many hits on "space diapers" on Google?

I'd tell you to Google it, but...I need to go burn my monitor now.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

And seriously dude, that's a weak defense. Why the HELL would they call it a space diaper?

I don't know, why are there so many hits on "space diapers" on Google?

I'd tell you to Google it, but...I need to go burn my monitor now.

Holy crap. It must be a blue moon cause we actually agree on something. Thank goodness I keep spare monitors.

 

[happyninja42]

There's more to it than that. The Clones from the clone wars suffer from accelerated aging, so they would not be in prime condition to fight in the army by the time A New Hope takes place. The Empire cut corners and went with regular recruits because it was cheaper. As a result, you had stormtroopers with varying levels of skill and an overall weaker army.

This assumes that all clones are grown at once. There is nothing stopping Empire from growing new clones for A New Hope as far as i know.

Cloning facilities were destroyed if we can consider that canon still.

Something as big and spread out as The Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

The Empire is racist towards all aliens

The cloning facility was created and ran by aliens. So rebuilding it would require the Empire to work with said aliens to get it done.

Yes they are racist to all aliens, that doesn't mean they won't use them if it serves the Empire. Just ask the Wookies about that. There's no reason they wouldn't just force the cloning species to work for them, under penalty of death. I mean, it's not like that isn't a common strategy for the Empire. So there isn't any reason for it to not come back, other than the potential for cost effectiveness. Which I guess could be impractical for the Empire. In the post-war era, assuming the galactic economy reacts even remotely like the real world economies after a war, they were likely in a depression. So it's possible they simply couldn't support the infrastructure needed to fund a clone army...while also building giant space apples that blow up planets. This actually comes up in the Clone Wars cartoon, where near the end of the war, the Republic was having so much trouble with the program, that they had to speed up production, and thus cutting out all of the specialized training the troopers usually got, just to get more bodies on the front lines.

Personally I like to think of it sort of how Dune considered the Butlerian Jihad. It was a terrible time in the past, and was a war that spanned the galaxy, killing trillions, and they never want to bring it back. So they have an unspoken ban on cloning tech, just like Dune had a ban on true AI.

*shrugs* Also, I personally think "The Clone Wars" works better when simply described as "what happened before". It has more mystery and ominous nature to it. Plus, if you keep using that as a plot element, you limit the possible stories you can tell. "Got a new threat? Just toss a clone army at it." "Got an uprising? Throw a clone army at it" I find the idea of the First Order abducting children, to brainwash them into little Hitler Youth-esque stormtroopers, way more disturbing. I mean with that scenario, you've got an entire galaxy of people who have missing children, possibly who end up being killed by their children in some engagement. You have the opportunity for one of them to maybe be staring down their blaster rifle, and have a flash of memory, seeing the cowering woman in front of him, that he was ordered to kill, caring for him while he was sick, singing him a lullaby. Now he has the dilemma of obeying orders, or murdering his own mother. WAY more dramatic tension there compared to clones, as they literally have no real ties to anyone aside from their clone brothers.

 

[JimB]

Why the hell would they call it a space diaper?

The Thing: Okay, looks like the new space cops got it.
Rocket Raccoon: Space cops? We're in space. You don't have to call everything out here space something.
The Thing: You know? You're right, space-pain-in-my-ass.

--Guardians of the Galaxy (2015) #5

 

[FirstNameLastName]

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

I have no idea, but whenever he says space diapers, all I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, where Luke is floating in the bacta tank wearing a big ass diaper. So you know, I don't really see how this is out of character for Star Wars, as there is an example of it in the original trilogy.

It is not your Jedi space Muppet robot opera. It is Disney's Jedi space Muppet robot opera. Disney has decided what it wants to do with its Jedi space Muppet robot opera.

And part of that involved giving the guy who wrote "Wibbily wobbily TIE Fighter" and "Space Daipers" multiple books to write, as well as giving EA of all companies exclusive rights for making Star Wars games so you'll excuse those of us who were here since nearly the start for being concerned whenever Disney does anything with this franchise.

I love how you word this, implying you are have propriety since "you've been here since the beginning", assuming that JimB hasn't been their that long either. And sorry, but most of the other stuff done by people who had propriety rights to Star Wars, did shit with Star Wars. Most of the EU sucks, it really does. It's poorly written, poorly conceived fanfiction that happened to get published, because what the fuck else was anyone going to do with the license? Not much. So please don't act like the previous material under the Star Wars banner is some untouchable work of art, that is going to be soiled by the Mouse's fingers upon it. It's all campy crap to some degree or other. It's just now going to be Disney flavored campy crap.

It may have bee mostly crap, but it was crap with more dignity than Wibbily TIE Fighters, and Space Diapers.

I'm FULLY aware of how low the old EU went, but even the giant ant hive mind people and Luuke weren't anywhere NEAR that level of pure undiluted suck.

Seriously, Sapce Diapers? That's pure Jetsons right there.

Also, funny how you call the old EU fanfic when the latest freaking MOVIE takes so many elements from Star Wars fanfic that it's hilarious.

What exactly is the context of these space diapers you keep bringing up? Is there some kind of strange aspect to them I'm not seeing, or is it just the idea itself. Because if it's the later, I don't really see the problem, since real astronauts already have space diapers. After all, if you're in a TIE fighter you can hardily just get up and go to the bathroom.

The context of the line in question is a taunt during a fight between two characters. Said quote is "I've been doing this since before you were in space diapers."

So no, it's not a comment on what guys in space ships for long lengths of time wear, it's not a comment on the bacta tank undies (And seriously dude, that's a weak defense. Why the HELL would they call it a space diaper?) it's something little babies in the star wars universe. Space Diapers. Not just regular diapers no, they gotta be SPACE diapers, because everything is in space and all.

Seriously, it's a thing I would expect from the goddamn JETSONS! I can buy Diapers being a thing in Star Wars, but calling them Space Diapers is like calling a Nerf a Space Oxen. =

...

Ah, I'm not even sure why I didn't consider that a possibility; I guess it just seemed way too stupid. So spaces diapers are just regular diapers ... in space! Yeah, that is hilariously bad.

 

[Strazdas]

There's more to it than that. The Clones from the clone wars suffer from accelerated aging, so they would not be in prime condition to fight in the army by the time A New Hope takes place. The Empire cut corners and went with regular recruits because it was cheaper. As a result, you had stormtroopers with varying levels of skill and an overall weaker army.

This assumes that all clones are grown at once. There is nothing stopping Empire from growing new clones for A New Hope as far as i know.

Cloning facilities were destroyed if we can consider that canon still.

Something as big and spread out as The Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

The Empire is racist towards all aliens

The cloning facility was created and ran by aliens. So rebuilding it would require the Empire to work with said aliens to get it done.

So they used clones made by aliens in the past but now no longer want to do that because "muh evil racist"? Why did they use it in the first place if they were so racists towards those aliens that they cannot use them to further their goals (lets face it, it wouldnt be working together, it would be coming in and enslaving the, thats the Empires way)

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

So there was like.... two kisses in the original trilogy right? And that was it for sexuality, unless you count jabba?

Im not saying having gay characters is a problem, but how would you even know right? Who says lando is not gay? Or greedo or whoever. Who says obiwan was not gay?

My point is that star wars is not about sexuality, i fail to see how goin out of your way to portray homosexuality will add anything of value. Does anyone feel like the heterosexual relationship between princess whoever and anakin added much? Maybe thats not a fair comparison.

 

[JimB]

I'm not saying having gay characters is a problem, but how would you even know, right? Who says Lando is not gay? Or Greedo or whoever. Who says Obi-Wan was not gay?

I apologize if this comes off as a low blow, but personally, I find it delightfully ironic that someone whose screen name identifies himself as an atheist is breaking out one of the most popular theist arguments of all time: argument from ignorance (not calling you names, but just giving the name of the fallacy). "How can you prove [God didn't create the universe/Star Wars characters aren't gay]?" Saying gay people might be there but are invisible and never speak up, like God, isn't meaningfully different from saying they don't exist.

My point is that Star Wars is not about sexuality. I fail to see how going out of your way to portray homosexuality will add anything of value.

Value is relative to the desires of the individual observer. You place no value on it because you don't want to see gay people. Others do want to see gay people and feel represented in the Star Wars universe, and ultimately, the creative teams do not owe it to you to vet their creative choices past you.

 

[Darmani]

So there was like.... two kisses in the original trilogy right? And that was it for sexuality, unless you count jabba?

Im not saying having gay characters is a problem, but how would you even know right? Who says lando is not gay? Or greedo or whoever. Who says obiwan was not gay?

My point is that star wars is not about sexuality, i fail to see how goin out of your way to portray homosexuality will add anything of value. Does anyone feel like the heterosexual relationship between princess whoever and anakin added much? Maybe thats not a fair comparison.

Sexuality isn't just getting it on. The romantic passions and feelings and displays of people from Luke's attraction to Leia, Han and Leia's attraction, their marriage, and...
Despite the word, sexuality isn't just heavy makeout/sex stuff. We express that in different ways.

Its like people wondering because of Zeus if programs can have a sexuality. Uhm, they definitely had one in the first movie with the hetero pair of programs who cuddle smile, interact and so on all like they are romantic. Being gay could be expressed simply as that. A hand holding walk, a cry out, and so on

More than one is sure Poe and Finn will be a thing. That bit with jacket was just too ... much and reminiscent of romantic gesture and has a literary history (Jonathan and David). heck like mass effect we could have a closed off bitter gay widow.

Much like a black or female human bring it on. Heck Chewie and Maz's sexuality are established in this with a simple line (Where is my boyfriend)

 

[JimB]

Heck, Chewie and Maz's sexuality are established in this with a simple line ("Where is my boyfriend?").

Not that I object to either of them being straight, but in all fairness, the only thing that line establishes is that she and Chewie banter. There's a gay dude at work who calls just about every woman in the office under the age of forty his girlfriend, and most of them call him their boyfriend.

 

[Politrukk]

There's more to it than that. The Clones from the clone wars suffer from accelerated aging, so they would not be in prime condition to fight in the army by the time A New Hope takes place. The Empire cut corners and went with regular recruits because it was cheaper. As a result, you had stormtroopers with varying levels of skill and an overall weaker army.

This assumes that all clones are grown at once. There is nothing stopping Empire from growing new clones for A New Hope as far as i know.

Cloning facilities were destroyed if we can consider that canon still.

Something as big and spread out as The Empire has only one cloning facility location and cannot rebuild it?

yeah as silly as it sounds that's what they wrote, a whole planet dedicated to cloning and it was destroyed.