Jimquisition: Air Control - A Steam Abuse Story

[Darknacht]

Once again STOP putting words in my mouth. I ALREADY KNOW SURGEON SIMULATOR IS NOT UNDULY DECEPTIVE THAT IS MY FRIGGIN' *POINT*. Tell me, with specific example, how Air Control is different in the claims they make about their product, that make THEM guilty of false advertizing. The closest EITHER gets to false advertizing, is that both of them claim to be "simulations," which is not TECHNICALLY false in either case, but can lead consumers to false expectations in BOTH cases.

No where in the marketing materials I've seen does Air Control claim to be a comedically bad game. The key with Surgeon Simulator is that it's tongue-in-cheek. Not so with Air Control.

That's the difference. That's why Surgeon Simulator is not false advertising.

No where does it come right out and say "Hey stupid this is a joke." But the gameplay video they post with the game makes it clear that it is. Where in the description to they blatantly lie? Maybe where they claim that "It is the first airplane game, where plane compartment is visible." I can't remember any others but their may be. But I don't think anyone is complaining that its not the first to show the inside of the compartment.

This is one of the images posted on their steam page:

 

[Wolfe M. Howler]

The thing that pisses me of the most is the fact that almost exactly a year ago, Valve blocked Paranautical Activity from releasing on Steam, because they had the gall to look for a publisher for their game instead of using Greenlight.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.409559-Valve-to-Indie-Devs-Dont-Use-Publishers-to-Bypass-Greenlight


What's with the insane change of heart, Steam?

 

[InfamousDS]

I saw an argument earlier which was built on misinformation. I'd like to correct that, since it seemed to be the crux of an ongoing dispute.

Steam does not, in fact, exclusively sell digital video games. They include unrelated software (like media players), as well as game-related software, game-creation software, and even game-creation tool-kits (like APIs and SDKs). So saying that they don't is factually incorrect.

Proof:
http://store.steampowered.com/software/

It has a tab and everything on the main page.

 

[shieldheart204]

Am I the only one who wants Jim to shout: "Nobody expects the Jimquisition!" at the end of these shaming videos?

 

[SeventhSigil]

Ugh. On the one hand, there are numerous examples of titles that have been rough and rocky on the technical aspect, but somehow managed to be so bad that it swings right back around and becomes good again, in a bizarre metamorphic kind of way. Goat Simulator being an immediate example, bugs and all, and God knows there are numerous other titles that, at a glance, just shouldn't have worked out, but more or less have scraped by. Games that, having never been released at all, would have cost a number of people an interesting experience.

On the other hand, the dangers of a completely open market is that one who has so much as fucked around on Unity for 2 1/2 hours is going to toss their mishmashed, stuttering abomination on the market for monies, and in a no refund market, even if a grand total of 10 people buy it for five bucks, totally worth it! Actually almost wonder if these people do this hoping that it will become the next Bad Hit, not realizing that, generally speaking, at least the crappy titles that sold gangbusters had some entertaining or redeeming aspect that set them apart. Air Control is... Not remotely redeemable.


First, although I'm normally not a big advocate of software piracy, in the situation I wholeheartedly endorse the Pirates to torrent the shit out of this. Release it on the Internet, make it as available as possible, that way if anyone is curious enough to actually play tripe like this, at least the developer won't be pocketing any proceeds; worse comes to worse and the person who torrents it decides that the experience was actually worth the five bucks, they could always purchase a legitimate copy after-the-fact.

Second, I'm thinking there needs to be a more immediate way to flag potentially crappy games for casual browsers. (Use an upvote and downvote system if necessary to determine that, which granted raises its own potential hazards,) in which, for a game like air control, capitalize every letter in the main title, both in search results and on the game's page, in dripping red font, make little flies rise up from the words, I don't care, but bottom line is that someone should be able to tell, at a glance, that if nothing else this game is extreeeeemely unpopular. The game would still be available for purchase, but having a big blatant warning klaxon in front of it will at least ensure that everyone gives it close scrutiny before spending their money.

 

[Spearmaster]

Snip

I always thought that a steam "STORE" page was basically like the back of a game box in a retail store. If you want to base your decision to purchase a game on that information alone then you get what you deserve. Steam just hosts the game and page space for a cut, they don't regulate what the developer does with it.

If you want to talk about dishonesty go to a Game Stop, read the back of a AAA game box and ask the person working there if its worth buying.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Jesus! I like to think I have a cynical bent, but how the hell could you even expect to get away with releasing such garbage!?

I mean seriously! The arrogance is staggering! "Oh I'll release this unfinished piece of shit on Steam and the idiots will eat it up because its cheap and looks indie!"

 

[Dragonlayer]

So whos version of good do you want them to use judge games to not allow on steam?

Whoever they hire to do Quality Control.

I'm sure that will be about as reliable as rolling a die.

Really? I could do it, and I have no qualifications: "I don't like the look of this Indie JRPG because I hate that genre, but I realise other people might enjoy it *and* its not a unfinished pile of crap, so onto Steam it goes."

 

[Vivi22]

I still like steam but yeah I agree this is getting ridiculous, I just don?t get why valve doesn?t have quality control, what do they gain from a game like this getting released?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Valve policing every game that gets released isn't a solution because it's untenable. Control over what gets removed needs to be in the hands of the community. That's what will lead to the quickest response and action.

Expecting Valve to be able to police every single game is a bad idea. It would cost a tremendous amount of money, and asking every developer to submit their games for approval will lead to tremendous backlogs and likely cost too much for many smaller companies. There's a reason they chose to release on PC, not consoles, and console quality control measures not only have a history of shutting out the market for anyone who isn't in the pockets of the big boys with the sacks of money, but they don't even fucking work to begin with. If they did, no Bethesda game would ever see a console release because they're always hideously broken at launch, and barely any of the problems they have actually get fixed even months later.

The PC is an open platform. Valve wants Steam to be an open distribution center and it should be. It shouldn't place massive barriers in the path of getting games onto it. It should level the playing field for all developers to get their fair shake on the platform. The problem is that the community curation of the storefront that Valve has stated several times they are aiming to achieve is not there yet. I agree that that's bad and they need to get to that point sooner rather than later. My issue is that they seem to be the only ones who have a solution in mind that doesn't aim to bring Steam into ass backwards console territory. The console gaming market is dysfunctional, and the last thing the PC market needs is to be more like it.

 

[Vivi22]

So whos version of good do you want them to use judge games to not allow on steam?

Whoever they hire to do Quality Control.

I'm sure that will be about as reliable as rolling a die.

Really? I could do it, and I have no qualifications: "I don't like the look of this Indie JRPG because I hate that genre, but I realise other people might enjoy it *and* its not a unfinished pile of crap, so onto Steam it goes."

And yet the people doing quality control for console makers don't get it right any more than flipping a coin would. And people are spending money to get their broken games past those certification processes. This is why the community needs control, not some faceless nobody at a company being paid to see if the game boots to the menu screen.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

This actually infuriates me.

Why? Because there are actually great games that are getting ignored and shat on because atrocities like "air control" are hogging space on Steam and ruining the chances that good games have over ever being noticed, or played or anything.

Seriously, the more I look at Steam, the more I worry about its future.

Not to mention I worry that by the time GoD Factory is finally done and released, no one will give a shit about Steam games anymore, and the game will flop because shit like this burned people out. >: ( And that would make me REALLY mad.

What is GoD factory? See you mentioning it right there and your concern for its success makes me want to look into it, if I'm interested then you just helped the game's success.

OT: I just wish steam's user reviews would be calculated into percentages that one could use to filter through games. Really, I would be fine with no quality control and just better filtering in searches (they could also add a tab on the store front page that says "highest user reviews" that could be sorted for the day, the week, the month, the year, all time, but I know the algorithm needed so that a game with just one positive review doesn't go over one with 99 positive and 1 negative review would be difficult to do. Hey, many other websites have figured it out I'm sure valve could).

 

[Thanatos2k]

Snip

I always thought that a steam "STORE" page was basically like the back of a game box in a retail store. If you want to base your decision to purchase a game on that information alone then you get what you deserve. Steam just hosts the game and page space for a cut, they don't regulate what the developer does with it.

If you want to talk about dishonesty go to a Game Stop, read the back of a AAA game box and ask the person working there if its worth buying.

Yeah but game developers aren't allowed to lie on the back of their boxes. Same should be true here.

The issue is also what happens when someone goes beyond the back of the box - to the reviews or forum of that game in Steam to get more information, and that information can be altered by the developer without you knowing it, misrepresenting the truth. THAT needs to be fixed as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Valve policing every game that gets released isn't a solution because it's untenable. Control over what gets removed needs to be in the hands of the community. That's what will lead to the quickest response and action.

Expecting Valve to be able to police every single game is a bad idea. It would cost a tremendous amount of money, and asking every developer to submit their games for approval will lead to tremendous backlogs and likely cost too much for many smaller companies.

Valve doesn't need to police every single game - just any game that does not have a publisher. A publisher attached guarantees that another company has a stake in making sure that the game at the minimum works. If the game is a travesty, the publisher takes flak as well. As such, you're almost assured that there will be no scam games in that situation.

So they just have to police the completely indie games, which is not too much to ask.

 

[Lightknight]

Try standing by the product and repeat your negative or even positive review for everyone that passes by and glances your way. THey will stop you.

And yet, they have a website where you can not only rate products but review them. And you can do so in a negative fashion.

How about the individual product producer's websites? How many of those have a site that you can say shit about their products? Does Downey have a comment section where people can claim that their mountain fresh version gives you herpes?

Again, Downey can do what it wants in Downey's store. But Steam is not Downey's store. If you ran a store that sold things other than Downey, it would be a really bad idea for Downey to be able to suppress any opinions about fabric softeners so that your customers couldn't make informed buying decisions.

Oh? That sounds like you're claiming an absolute truth again. Legal obligation is the main reason companies perform an action or do not perform an action.

Give me a break. There's countless actions a business does or does not take that have nothing to do with legality. No business legally has to give good customer service, but it's definitely a good idea to do so!

Steam does not legally have to do anything, but it would be a really good idea for them to fix this issue!

Actually, the developer has responded to most of them including that one. So... it seems like people missed that section.

Again, the one I sited was from day one and has a ton of comments under it every day since.

...? I don't think you're getting what I was saying.

Steam's overall service has a working comment section but the developers are given control once you go into the game specific message boards. So no, I don't get what you're saying.

 

[BoogieManFL]

Jim is the hero we need but don't deserve.

This pile of rancid feces is still available on Steam, and the dude running the scam is still banning and censoring people on the forum.

Shameful, Steam.. Shameful. I can't fathom how after this kind of crap keeps happening that they don't take a more active role in quality control. And barring that, at least responding in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[JarinArenos]

People keep saying that Steam policing its own titles for quality control is too big of a job and that the community should handle it. Why not a way to report infringing, broken, or exploitive games, and then it goes to an internal review once a certain threshhold (X number of reports in a week, say) is reached? That lets the community police the system, while still making sure there's a professional buffer between games and organized trolling.

 

[Lykosia_v1legacy]

Once more, slowly this time.

Many people are flinging criticism at Air Control because they say it violates Truth in Advertizing.

I am saying that Air Control does NOT violate Truth in Advertizing.

I am saying this, because if we ding Air Control for lying, we would also need to ding Surgeon Simulator.

I am not saying I need a refund for Surgeon Simulator. I am saying the opposite, that we need to NOT punish Surgeon Simulator.

Consequently, we can't pull Air Control (BAD) from Steam on the grounds of False Advertizing without also pulling Surgery Simulator (GOOD).

Please address what I'm actually saying, and stop flipping out over something I'm not.

And you've no idea of what false advertising is. Surgeon Simulator never says it's an actual simulator. First paragraph on my Steam page says that "Surgeon Simulator 2013 is a darkly humorous over-the-top operation sim game," so it never claims to be really serious sim.

Air Control on the other hand claims that it's the best flight simulator of all time.

Name of the product doesn't matter. What you tell about your product, is what matters in advertising. In real world the guys behind Air Control would've a law suit in their hands before they can say "ha-ha."

 

[Lightknight]

Once more, slowly this time.

Many people are flinging criticism at Air Control because they say it violates Truth in Advertizing.

I am saying that Air Control does NOT violate Truth in Advertizing.

I am saying this, because if we ding Air Control for lying, we would also need to ding Surgeon Simulator.

I am not saying I need a refund for Surgeon Simulator. I am saying the opposite, that we need to NOT punish Surgeon Simulator.

Consequently, we can't pull Air Control (BAD) from Steam on the grounds of False Advertizing without also pulling Surgery Simulator (GOOD).

Please address what I'm actually saying, and stop flipping out over something I'm not.

And you've no idea of what false advertising is. Surgeon Simulator never says it's an actual simulator. First paragraph on my Steam page says that "Surgeon Simulator 2013 is a darkly humorous over-the-top operation sim game," so it never claims to be really serious sim.

Air Control on the other hand claims that it's the best flight simulator of all time.

Name of the product doesn't matter. What you tell about your product, is what matters in advertising. In real world the guys behind Air Control would've a law suit in their hands before they can say "ha-ha."

You put my name at the top of a quote that wasn't me. Please update accordingly.

The poster was Abnaxis: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.851575-Jimquisition-Air-Control-A-Steam-Abuse-Story?page=6#21055958

FYI, surgeon simulator is one of the best bang for the buck games you can get. I had a lot of fun with it and was not misled by any marketing of it like the quote you put me on did.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

What is GoD factory? See you mentioning it right there and your concern for its success makes me want to look into it, if I'm interested then you just helped the game's success.

Spoiler: Where I off topic rave about GoD Factory

GoD Factory is an upcoming indie Space Combat game that I've been following super hardcore for almost a year.

The basic idea is that 2 teams of up to 4 players build customized gunships and try to defeat the enemy team by blowing up their Carrier ship. Which is huge. So huge you can go INSIDE IT at two points and dogfight IN IT.

The catch is that the Carriers are also firing at one another every 3 minutes, so you have to push for an advantage if you want to come out ahead. Also, the Carrier "Parts" have their own special use. By destroying a part, not only do you take off an HP point from the Carrier, but you disrupt the enemy team (IE, kill the radar and the enemy team won't be able to detect you as easily. Kill the Cannon and their carrier will fire ever 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes. Kill the Ammo depot, and they'll only recharge 60% of their ammo when docking. Etc).

Oh, and did I mention you take two gunships to each match? And as you play you unlock new parts, upgrades for existing ones, new abilities, etc etc etc? I freakin love the hell out of it.

The devs put out a few short-lived betas and I really had fun with them when while they lasted. The last beta they had up was last week and I tried to get in as many games as I could.

Honestly, the only things the game is missing, IMO are:
1) Randomized debris between the carriers
and
2) A strong community.

#2 worries me. So few people know what GoD Factory is, and it's sad.

So yeah, if you like space combat games, GET IT. It's been greenlit and they were fortunate enough to find a publisher (their kickstarters didn't make, it, sadly. ;_, so I'm not TOO worried, but....You never know. Not with shit like Air Control clogging up Steam and making people turn up their noses at it...

I just watched Jim's let's plays of Air Control and.......MY GOD, it looks even worse in motion! It's....Why? How? How could someone think this game is ready for Release?! Air Control isn't even worth it if it was FREE! *shudder*

"Brain, Head, Brain, Head. LOOK AT THE SIZE DIFFERENCE, WHAT THE HELL" was the kicker in the let's play, though. XD

 

[BoBEllingson]

If you are all mad about this game I have something even worse, Rabbits. Its the worse sitcom ever made it only has one camera angle and half the dialog is missing:

 

[Spearmaster]

Yeah but game developers aren't allowed to lie on the back of their boxes. Same should be true here.

Yeah but they lie, tell half truths and give one sided subjective descriptions on the game boxes all the time. When Diablo 3 or Sim City were having problems at launch people weren't blaming Game Stop or Best Buy for selling it or not having a sign posted in the aisle saying it wasn't going to work were they?

The issue is also what happens when someone goes beyond the back of the box - to the reviews or forum of that game in Steam to get more information, and that information can be altered by the developer without you knowing it, misrepresenting the truth. THAT needs to be fixed as well.

Then what does a developer do if the forums are getting trolled by someone passing along false information of the opposite kind or having their game trashed by someone with a competing game or a scathing review from someone that is trying to run it on substandard hardware?
You cant FIX the problem you state without creating another. Steam would have to have hands on knowledge of a game that's early access, under development by an independent developer to know whats true and whats not, what features are coming and which aren't, What the dev. plans to release next...the list goes on. They would have to have a case worker for every indi game to have regular reviews of everything under development. Or they can leave it to the person who knows the most about the game, the person making it, because valve knows if its not good it wont sell.

As a side note Developers cant moderate comments/reviews made in the general Forums, only the game forums.