That doesn't make any sense. When and why did Square Enix hire Jim Sterling? I though he only worked at Destructoid and then went full time at The Escapist.DrOswald said:
Jimquisition: Batman Is Everything Wrong With Square Enix
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Square hired Tetsuya Nomura, the guy responsible for all the terrible art. "This seems less like everything that's wrong with Square Enix and more like everything that's wrong with Tetsuya Nomura." You responded, I responded to you. Sorry if it was unclear.KingdomFantasyXIII said:
I would prefer both, but I was just saying I'll tolerate a bad story for good gameplay and vice versa.canadamus_prime said:
I'm reticent to buy stuff off the beaten path on Steam because it's hard to gauge whether they're good or bad. I mean, their forums can be moderated by the devs, limiting the criticism. This is possible with bigger companies, too, but bigger releases tend to get more off-steam attention. Some of the games that looooook good on Steam have no reviews I can find, and little to no gameplay footage. Which is a shame, because there's probably some gems I'm avoiding, but there's no way to tell.
*Liked the Nomura Batman thing, backs away slowly, accidently audibly slurping his drink*
I agree with the argument that Square doesn't have a clue when it comes to running things, like a schizophrenic on heroin.
*Goes back to feeling bad, rocking back and forth in a corner, unable to drink quietly, muttering to himself*
Batman design is bad and I should feel bad. Batman design is bad and I should feel bad. Batman design is bad...
I agree with the argument that Square doesn't have a clue when it comes to running things, like a schizophrenic on heroin.
*Goes back to feeling bad, rocking back and forth in a corner, unable to drink quietly, muttering to himself*
Batman design is bad and I should feel bad. Batman design is bad and I should feel bad. Batman design is bad...
Yeah I know, you have to be wary of stuff on Steam that isn't a big budget release (unfortunately). With these though they don't look like they'd be another Earth 2066 or Flight Control. They actually have gameplay trailers. ...what am I going on about? I haven't even played these games? Getting the kind of game the Square-Enix used to make would be nice though.Zachary Amaranth said:
Oh, so that's what you are saying. it's not like people don't enjoy Nomura's designs. Seriously, Fans generally have accepted Nomura's style:DrOswald said:
http://i.imgur.com/oWFnSsR.png
http://jtmgames.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ffxiii_characters.jpg
http://img.webme.com/pic/p/parasiteeve/1peevol.jpg
http://www.otakustudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/suba_wp_04_1280x1024.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Kingdomheartscharacters.jpg
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/129/9/f/final_fantasy_viii_character_artworks__nomura__by_zelu1984-d64ondk.png
http://fullgeekpower.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/final-fantasy-x-2.jpg
http://sleepyanarchy.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/the_id_by_bouncer_club.jpg
His art design is all over the place. I can only really think of the FF direct sequels (FF10-2, FF13-2, Lightning Returns, Advent children, etc) that had bad designs.
Agreed, good character usually result from at least proficient games... now, I question the fact that "innovativeness" has anything to do with quality. And I don't think the first halo was anything special (I don't think anything about halo is particularly special tbh), but in general that's exactly the point.LostPause said:
If the games are bad, then it's not likely that the characters will be memorable at all, no matter how interesting their design is.
And the opposite is true too: If a game is very good, and the characters aren't particularly exciting, they might become iconic out of the merit of the game.
I never said I don't like any of his designs, should have made that clearer. He has done some really good stuff. In fact, taken in a vacuum I like most of his designs. It is when many of them come together and are competing for attention that this is a problem. You can't have 5 things on screen that scream "LOOK AT ME!!!"KingdomFantasyXIII said:
This was largely my problem with the Final Fantasy XIII art direction. Strictly speaking there wasn't anything in there I didn't like. But there were so many things in there it just becomes an indecipherable mess. I like Vanille or Lightning. I don't like Vanille and Lightning. And it just got worse as XIII-2 and XIII-3 were released. I like Lightning's costumes in both those games. But in context they look terrible.
This is also the major problem with the story of Final Fantasy XIII. The story was just so cluttered with junk, very little of which was independently bad, that it became a mess (also, it seems like Square did everything they could to make me absolutely despise Lightning on a personal level.) I really tried hard with Final Fantasy XIII. I played it for 26 hours and the story never came together.
But in any case, if Tetsuya Nomura is to blame for the art problem then that doesn't let Square as an organization off the hook.
I see I wasn't the only one. The first time I saw the design I had thought it was some Workshop creation being prepped for release. Perhaps even some new Arcana item for Terrorblade.Ziggy said:
But even then the design is shit. Way too busy.
Anyway, on topic:
Brilliant observation, Jim. And that final fade-to-black rant was a great touch.
Any in particular? I'm just curious because I can't think of any specifically in this vein and would like to check 'em out if possible.canadamus_prime said:
>This was largely my problem with the Final Fantasy XIII art direction. Strictly speaking there wasn't anything in there I didn't like. But there were so many things in there it just becomes an indecipherable mess.DrOswald said:
Um, what? That doesn't make any sense. The majority of FF13's art direction was pretty good. How can it be a "mess" and yet seem good? That is a basic contradiction.
>I like Vanille or Lightning. I don't like Vanille and Lightning
Um, Vanille's design wasn't very good, but Lightning's was. It's easy to point out one bad thing in an art design. You have to point out many bad things in order to actually say "This is bad art design"
And it just got worse as XIII-2 and XIII-3 were released. I like Lightning's costumes in both those games. But in context they look terrible.
First of all: Direct sequels in general from Final Fantasy having some bad designs yes. Second of all: Lightning's costumes could easily be changed up so that you chose what you wanted to see. It's actually a good design choice to be able to choose what a character wears and it reflects your idea about what the character looks like.
>This is also the major problem with the story of Final Fantasy XIII. The story was just so cluttered with junk, very little of which was independently bad, that it became a mess (also, it seems like Square did everything they could to make me absolutely despise Lightning on a personal level.)
No it wasn't. Also, just because you don't like a character does not mean everybody does. I despise Ryuko from Kill La Kill but that doesn't mean everybody does.
>But in any case, if Tetsuya Nomura is to blame for the art problem then that doesn't let Square as an organization off the hook.
Or it could be one person and you should not blame the many for the actions of a few. You know, because making a generalized statement like that has NEVER caused problems before hand.
I believe Yahtzee put it best when it comes to Square-Enix: they don't want to make games anymore, they want to make CGI movies. At this point I've been done with SE for a long time and have plenty of negative things to say about what they've done with the Final Fantasy franchise since the last game I thoroughly enjoyed (FFTactics for the PS1), but one thing I do have to give to them: they can make stunningly beautiful cutscenes and animations, "busy" character designs aside.
The only problem is that even if they did cut out the middle man and go into making straight-up movies instead of games, they'd still run into the problem that has knee-capped every FF game since 8: the crappy, horrendous, mind-numbing, grotesquely bad, moronically stupid writing.
The only problem is that even if they did cut out the middle man and go into making straight-up movies instead of games, they'd still run into the problem that has knee-capped every FF game since 8: the crappy, horrendous, mind-numbing, grotesquely bad, moronically stupid writing.
When he brought up Link, it was to laud his design. When he mentioned Lightning being unmemorable, he brought up her lack of personality as an aside. The two are not actually related points if you pay attention.Raika said:
But yeah, Square-Enix really lost me a while ago. The designs are one thing, but what he said about the plot being all detail and no central theme is pretty accurate and that's why I gave up on them. Sometimes they do have really interesting little bits, but it never gels into a coherent whole that's worth the money they ask me to spend on their games.
Ohhh that Jim, he's a clever one!
He makes a point about games and characters where design and gameplay are buried under layers of over design and needless ostentation in a rant that is itself overly verbose. How very meta!
"If brevity is the soul of wit then square enix must be some of the most witless fuckers ever"
THAT was a fucking great line. Witty and succinct. Shame he didn't listen to his own advice.
He makes a point about games and characters where design and gameplay are buried under layers of over design and needless ostentation in a rant that is itself overly verbose. How very meta!
"If brevity is the soul of wit then square enix must be some of the most witless fuckers ever"
THAT was a fucking great line. Witty and succinct. Shame he didn't listen to his own advice.
The ones I'm thinking of are The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky and Skyborn. The thing with Legend of Heroes, the one girl looks just a little too perky.Zachary Amaranth said: