Jimquisition: Batman Is Everything Wrong With Square Enix

[Mikeyfell]

Of all the things that could break Jim I didn't think it would be Final Fantasy...

The best point about character design I've ever heard is that you should never design a character you should design a Silhouette.

All those iconic characters are completely identifiable from just their shadows

 

[Deadagent]

snip

Glad you brought upt those links because among these there was that big high-res picture of Sora thatmerits some analysis.

There is admittetly alot going on there, but even so pretty much all of it makes sense.
Lets start from the top. Ignoring the obvious spikey hair (seriously people is it that distracting on what is basically a cartoon character?), we have a hoodie underneath a coat that has a zipper on it and shoulderpad that are held on by belts? Or maybe the belts are holding something else. In either case it really isn't anything that is just plain stupid of too much. There's also a necklace because those exsist and why not. Fingerless gloves for grip I'm guessing.

Next, on the hips theres a belt. You know, like people then to do, especially if their pants are as huge as the ones sora is wearing. 2 pouches on each side for holding items and such, attached with 2 belts in order to keep it flailing all around.

And then the shoes. They have zippers. This might sound weird, but I have had boots with zippers on them, they were not on the middle though but thats besides the point. It's much better than having to tie your laces everytime. The real overkill about the shoes that dosent really make sense is the belts that go over the shoes, I mean thats just odd.

So there, about 99% of the desing in that case makes sense. So Jim, how about instead of just knee jerking to everything you see, instead take moment to examine the details a little bit.

For example those arm coming from the wings. Well it couldn't possibly be inspired from an actual bat?

http://images.wisegeek.com/isolated-bat-with-wings-spread.jpg see those little stubs on the wings? Those are bats thumbs. So Nomura really did here was to put actual arms there. What could the be used for? I dunno, what would you do as a super hero with an extra set of arms in wings you have? Use them for climbing? maybe?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

The main problem with Squeenix seems to be something Coelasquid of "Manly Guys doing Manly Things" called Nomura Syndrome. It's an affliction by which game protagonists are cursed to bear an unshakable resemblance to Gackt and are genetically incapable of dressing in plausible and yet reasonably eye-catching fashion. Diegetic symptoms include Emo Word Salads and the inability to evolve in a plot structure that makes any kind of sense. To compensate, just toss out a garden variety's worth of made-up deities or in-universe rules, or get your Symbolism thesaurus and just crib from the last forty thousand years' worth of human culture.

Function over form, Tetsuya. Write that on your forehead backwards and then go slam your head into a wall a few hundred times, thank you very much.

A friend of mine tried FF13 back when it was hot shit and more or less gave up just short of the first cinematic. He was used to Final Fantasy maps being big, sprawling things rife with random encounters, and instead got stuck with a corridor-crawler with random encounters. He was used to complex plots that did carry some of Squaresoft's former dedication to overblown drama, and not to this Fal'cie/L'cie/Whatever-the-fuck-cie nonsense.

Come to think of it, isn't LaCie a PC hardware manufacturer?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Squeenix has been utterly strangled by its reliance on over-design, and you can trace it all back to...lets call it a "growing trend" I've noticed with Japanese media in the last decade or so; especially games, and anime.

The trend of "Trying too hard."

All of Squeenix's (and Nomura's especially) freaky designs, extensive attention to base design detail and obsession with fidelity are all symptoms of this.

They try so hard to stand out that, ironically, they alienate more and more people trying to enjoy their productions and outside of the insular glad-handing press, have gained a reputation of being needlessly convoluted.

FF13 had ALL of its priorities backwards as a video game. To the point where I still call it an "anti-game".
I think that more than Nomura's Batman rendition, FF13 encapsulates all of Squeenix's worst behaviors.

In fact, I could rail against it for several pages, but I think I'll just summarize: FF13 is the definitive example of "style over substance" of any game of the previous console generation, and that is no small feat.

"Nomura has gone crazy these past few years..."

FEW YEARS?
Mr. Sterling, he's been crazy for over a decade now.

Literally, the first thing I thought of when I saw his Batman rendition, was think of this stupid fucker:

Spoiler: SHOWN: Trying way too hard to be cool

It's supposed to be a gag in his mouth, but it looks like he's wearing a goddamn jock strap on his face.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

say whatever you want jim, i still love that batman

 

[MaddKossack115]

Down the rabbit hole we go, staring into the abyss while the abyss stares back, coming face-to-face with Lovecraftian insanity and fear made manifest. And what seest thou else in the dark backward and abysm of time? Well... A bunch of over-the-top Anime rubbish that would get laughed out of a Studio Gainax series, let alone any fictional medium trying to maintain any sort of credibility or consistency.

God, Jim, this one was truly a look at the pure, unadulterated madness that is Square Enix, and Final Fantasy's "art without any context whatsoever" lunacy. Not even all of The Spoony Experiment's Let's Plays of the Final Fantasy games could even begin to match the sheer bafflement and outrage you've given in this one video.

Now, as for the whole "Bahamut-man" figure... I actually don't think it's that bad for a villain or anti-hero that is set as an antagonist or rival to Batman, but even then I'd tell them to sheer off the outer wings and excess claws (unless they actually DO SOMETHING, somehow!). And as a design for THE GODDAMN BATMAN?!?!

...No, just... No. I would rather take one of Rob Liefeld's designs over THIS, since they at least keeps to a consistent "90s antihero" build and design instead of... whatever art form term can best describe Square Enix's mad artistry.

 

[90sgamer]

Christ, Jim, you haven't been so ON POINT in months. This was fantastic. It should be memorialized in digital form on a CD, then shot into space so that some day, in the future, other life elsewhere in the universe can see what fuckwits Square-Enix is and witness just how right you are (this time). Fantastic.

Also, why are you, as Escapist's editor, allowed to insult corporations, specific individuals involved in the making and critiquing of games, and even your own viewership, but registered users of The Escapist can't even say of other users that they are "blind and deaf [to reason]", or other innocuous "insults," without getting a warning and, eventually, ban? The juxtaposition of philosophies within the Escapist as an entity bothers me endlessly. It should really make up its mind whether it wants to be family friendly or not.

 

[Kameburger]

There was a cathartic feel to this, but I will say that to be honest, I really quite like Nomura's art for what ever reason. Granted I think his complete dominance over the direction of the series is probably a mistake on Square's part because they've essentially given him the keys to the brand and just told him to go nuts.

 

[Lilani]

I started replaying Kingdom Hearts II a couple of weeks ago while my computer was down, and unlike a few years ago I did notice the belt overload. Like KH1 had some of this going on, but KH2 just went completely over the top. I was looking at Squall, and he had THREE belts just arbitrarily strapped up one of his arms, like he's bleeding out and had to tourniquet his arm a few times. I just kept looking at them like, why is he wearing those? How did he get them on?

I'll admit I do kind of like it, I'm not really offended by the "throwing random stuff together" style, and I can also dig lavish over-the-top detail. In fact, it's one of the things that I loved about Final Fantasy X. Some of the backgrounds and matte paintings are just gorgeous, and filled with so much detail it makes the whole world feel richer. Religion and faith are huge elements of that game, and all the lavish detail and what appear to be symbols scattered about reminded me of cathedrals, which combined with the music and fantastical elements just felt really awesome.

But sometimes those little elements of practicality do get to me. I love how they have the three good fairies from Sleeping Beauty "design" Sora's new outfit when it's got a hundred more belts than their entire movie did. And that huge zipper that ran through Pete's outfit was just...awkward.

Spoiler

And that thing goes ALL THE WAY around, ending at the same height in the back.

 

[KingdomFantasyXIII]

snip

Glad you brought upt those links because among these there was that big high-res picture of Sora thatmerits some analysis.

There is admittetly alot going on there, but even so pretty much all of it makes sense.
Lets start from the top. Ignoring the obvious spikey hair (seriously people is it that distracting on what is basically a cartoon character?), we have a hoodie underneath a coat that has a zipper on it and shoulderpad that are held on by belts? Or maybe the belts are holding something else. In either case it really isn't anything that is just plain stupid of too much. There's also a necklace because those exsist and why not. Fingerless gloves for grip I'm guessing.

Next, on the hips theres a belt. You know, like people then to do, especially if their pants are as huge as the ones sora is wearing. 2 pouches on each side for holding items and such, attached with 2 belts in order to keep it flailing all around.

And then the shoes. They have zippers. This might sound weird, but I have had boots with zippers on them, they were not on the middle though but thats besides the point. It's much better than having to tie your laces everytime. The real overkill about the shoes that dosent really make sense is the belts that go over the shoes, I mean thats just odd.

So there, about 99% of the desing in that case makes sense. So Jim, how about instead of just knee jerking to everything you see, instead take moment to examine the details a little bit.

For example those arm coming from the wings. Well it couldn't possibly be inspired from an actual bat?

http://images.wisegeek.com/isolated-bat-with-wings-spread.jpg see those little stubs on the wings? Those are bats thumbs. So Nomura really did here was to put actual arms there. What could the be used for? I dunno, what would you do as a super hero with an extra set of arms in wings you have? Use them for climbing? maybe?

Pretty much. Jim even knee-jerked everybody with the Lightning Returns character design of Lightning instead of using the original design that everybody remembers.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/039/3/5/final_fantasy_xiii_characters_by_lestat117x-d392ljy.png
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/142/e/e/final_fantasy_13_characters_by_xneonbutterflyx-d3gxim9.jpg
http://jtmgames.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/ffxiii_characters.jpg

Look at the majority of these characters. Most of them are fashionable and functional. Yet he criticizes Nomura from being overly detailed. I could sort of see Vanille as a criticism, but everybody else? Fuck no! These are much more closer to the FInal Fantasy 8 designs.

Look at the other KH characters:

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs47/PRE/f/2009/253/2/c/KH_Birth_By_Sleep_Wallpaper_by_miiworld.jpg
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101204020418/kingdomhearts/images/archive/f/f3/20101205061532!Organization_XIII_KHD.png
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130227182614/disney/images/4/4b/True_Organization_XIII.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kXIhOR0H8Ho/ToIsKVbFT7I/AAAAAAAAAJ4/-O2dZpQSYYQ/s1600/Sora+Riku+TGS+clothes+render.png

The majority of Nomura's designs are pretty good. It's only when you dive into the direct sequels do they get ridiculous. The only main numbered FF title that I can think of which had overly ridiculous designs was FF10.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

It seems like Jim has maybe forgotten that Square Enix made Bravely Default much more recently than FFXIII (and declared it a major success, at that). Also that XIII-2 fixed at least the part of XIII's writing that he was complaining about. I mean, this is just about 100% accurate up to around a year ago, but I think this topic might be slightly less "evergreen" than Jim believes. The video really feels like it was displaced in time. Also, it felt like he was really playing for time on both this week's and last week's episode. Hyperbole is one thing, but padding just isn't entertaining.

Wasn't Bravely Default developed by a different company? I know SE was the publisher but I'm pretty sure someone else made it.

Technically yes, but with the announcements they made afterwards (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133397-Square-Enix-Recommitting-to-JRPGs-After-Bravely-Defaults-Success), it seems to be something they want to commit to going forward. At the very least, I think a discussion of Squenix's overall business strategy should address a statement like that.

Plus, spending the majority of a video reiterating common complaints about a five-year-old game that has since had two substantially different sequels just smacks of laziness.

 

[-Dragmire-]

It seems like Jim has maybe forgotten that Square Enix made Bravely Default much more recently than FFXIII (and declared it a major success, at that). Also that XIII-2 fixed at least the part of XIII's writing that he was complaining about. I mean, this is just about 100% accurate up to around a year ago, but I think this topic might be slightly less "evergreen" than Jim believes. The video really feels like it was displaced in time. Also, it felt like he was really playing for time on both this week's and last week's episode. Hyperbole is one thing, but padding just isn't entertaining.

Wasn't Bravely Default developed by a different company? I know SE was the publisher but I'm pretty sure someone else made it.

Technically yes, but with the announcements they made afterwards (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133397-Square-Enix-Recommitting-to-JRPGs-After-Bravely-Defaults-Success), it seems to be something they want to commit to going forward. At the very least, I think a discussion of Squenix's overall business strategy should address a statement like that.

Plus, spending the majority of a video reiterating common complaints about a five-year-old game that has since had two substantially different sequels just smacks of laziness.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. I don't quite agree that the video reflects laziness on Jim's part but I do like the more optimistic view of SE[small](I really want them to make games that I enjoy again)[/small]. We'll see how things pan out in their next few releases.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Square Enix gets a lot of shit, most of it well deserved.

FFXIII was a train wreck in a lot of ways.

The combat system was lazy, the map design was a mess, the leveling system was lame and artificially hindered progress for no good reason, it presented you with plot dependent fights that had completely arbitrary and unexplained completion requirements and the characters were lame and/or annoying (Snow and Hope can go climb a wall of dicks.)

It was a mess.

But I'll never understand the argument that the plot was overly complicated or used too many new gobbldegook proper nouns.

Do you know what a Klingon is? How about a Wookie or A Vulcan?

What about Xenomorph, Yautja, Trandoshan, Jedi, Sith, Midichlorians, Kree, Skrull, Sakaaran, Ainur, Valar, Maiar, Eldar, Necron, Tau, Tyranid, Autobot, Decepticon, Cybertron, Thundera, and/or Azeroth?


I refuse to believe that a handful of new made up names and places befuddled folks so much that they just couldn't wrap their minds around the story FFXIII was trying to tell.

Those names might have been stupid, and the story might have been dumb but it wasn't complicated.

 

[LenticularHomicide]

Jim's demented babbling towards the end of the video reminded me of a famous dramatic monologue, of which an excerpt is reproduced below:

. . . the skull to shrink and waste and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis on on the beard the flames the tears the stones so blue so calm alas alas on on the skull the skull the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the labours abandoned left unfinished graver still abode of stones in a word I resume alas alas abandoned unfinished the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the skull alas the stones Cunard . . . tennis . . . the stones . . . so calm . . . Cunard . . . unfinished . . .

- Lucky, from Samuel Beckett's "Waiting For Godot"

I wonder if that was deliberate?

 

[rennagade]

From my perspective the art in the more recent final fantasy games is absolutely wonderful. The story multilayered and complex. The problem is the actual gameplay is not on that level, as while everything else is being improved the combat systems and the like are obliterated and re made with each and every new game. And also the story is TOO complex to the point where things don't flow very well.
I can't pull up the source, but there was a recent poll that players can barely remember a game's story as it is- whether it was because of a lack of or their inability to grasp the story was not stated; what they do remember is the gameplay. So it makes sense that if how a game plays is not good the game will be dismissed by many as a bad game, as at the end of the game most people don't remember most of the story anyway.
I know its a terrible thing to say. Also in a good game the player is more likely to ask "this is marvelous and all, but why am I doing this?", and thats where the story plays in. Its the ability to answer that question that will separate a good game from a great game for most players. In the latest FF games you never have to ask that question- rather you tend to be wondering what in sam hell are you doing, cause one minute ago you were hiding in Hope's house and now you are in the middle of the forest surrounded by what appears to be creatures designed by an insane person while you thought you were supposed to be hunting down these massive overlord characters drawn by the creature designer's bunk mate. That is the question you will most likely not want a player to be asking, especially in an rpg.

 

[RolandOfGilead]

found it.
What is Jim talking about in the beginning with the "island light thing"?

 

[awdrifter]

That Batman design looks pretty good. The only reason why the older FF games (or other Japanese games) don't have more elaborate designs is due to the hardware not being able to handle it. Mario and Sonic looks that way probably due to the hardware limitations when they were initially designed. If you don't like your favorite comic book hero getting redesigned I can understand, I even agree that Square Enix's games have major issues. But the issue is not design. Lightning looks cool in the third game, but she's just in a crap game.

 

[NoaNeumann]

"We've designed this sandwich using 27 different kinds of bread. It was worked on by 15 teams of bakers overseen by a corporate hierarchy (because what would bakers know about bread?). To recoup our costs, each sandwich will cost 75 dollars. Sandwiches will be discontinued if we fail to sell at least 30,000, because people clearly don't want sandwiches."

This and Jim's video have encapsulated all of what I always knew about the 'now' Square Enix, it was always about style over substance, they cared more about how a game looked than how the story played out. They cared about how many bobbles and doo-dad's they could shove onto their characters instead of giving them the most important 'accessory', a personality that was more then cardboard thin. I think the last time FF wasn't boring and trite for me was FF9 and that was a LOOONG time ago.

 

[Magmarock]

Hi there Jim loved this episode to bits. I did a couple of courses in 3D modelling and animation for video games and this is one of the important things that one could say about the whole thing. Rule of 3.

No more then three colours and three shapes. Well it's not in stone or anything but it's a good way of being mindful of not putting too much complexity into things.

AS for your other video in the xbox one. I certainly don't think you were referring to me when when you said people were offended.

However, I do think what you said about the Xbox One it was a little contradictory compared to the statements you made in your other videos where you criticized companies for apologizing and not doing anything.

Microsoft might not have apologized through words or press conferences but they have made changes for the better for the consumer. I just wish they'd apply the same strategy to Windows 8.

 

[Something Amyss]

The ones I'm thinking of are The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky and Skyborn. The thing with Legend of Heroes, the one girl looks just a little too perky.

I'll have to look for reviews or gameplay. I've got them wishlisted and I might give them a shot if they get discounted or something.