Jimquisition: Batman Is Everything Wrong With Square Enix

[MrFalconfly]

I guess the designer who made the aesthetic for Final Fantasy is the same guy who designed the Lexus LFA.

Intakes and odd angles all over the damn place.

 

[Lapin Logic]

An excellent point, well made.

 

[Drejer43]

My favourite company is Nippon Ichi, but Jim never seems to say shit about them... Heck, I think he praised them for a moment a while back

So I'm looking at some of their newer games, and honestly most if not all of them looks like the kind of game that is impossible to get into unless you played the previous titles. Got any recommendations, that are easy to get into?

 

[Kuro Serpentina]

My favourite company is Nippon Ichi, but Jim never seems to say shit about them... Heck, I think he praised them for a moment a while back

So I'm looking at some of their newer games, and honestly most if not all of them looks like the kind of game that is impossible to get into unless you played the previous titles. Got any recommendations, that are easy to get into?

I played Disgaea 2 for PSP for the first time a while back and got into it surprisingly easily
The games aren't that hard to get into, so long as your not afraid to grind like hell
For gateway stuff, Disgaea 1 & 2 for PSP are good starts, but overall recommendations include Guided Fate Paradox for PS3, Soul Nomad and the World Eaters for PS2, Makai Kingdom for PS2 & Zettai Hero Project: Unlosing Ranger Vs. Darkdeath Evilman for PSP (Warning: ZHP is their most hardcore grindfest of all time)
Also, NISA (Their American branch) dubbed and publishes a lot of great RPGs and Visuals Novels, so keep an eye out for the NIS logo, its a sure sign of quality and to be MAD MAD MAD~

 

[CaitSeith]

You saw this batsuit and thought "hmm. it needs more details."
Its like giving spider man more arms just to look more spider-like.

I haven't read the rest of the forum. But I'm almost sure that you know by now that they already did it (in the comics and the animated series... more than once. *shudder*)

 

[Kerethos]

Sandwich designed by Squeenix:

Spoiler

Dagwood ain't got nothin' on this.​

It's getting there, but first it needs more color; some muted pink, bright yellow, clean white - colors that stand out. Preferably added with the use of inedible materials, like plastic or painted metal.

After adding some much needed colors you've got to add some useless spikes - making the sandwich extremely difficult to handle. Then wrap it up with at least 2 belts (though more is obviously better), and a plate made mostly out of zippers.

And then add a chocobo at the top, made out of marzipan and lead paint. There: stupidly large sandwich by Square Enix

 

[otakon17]

"There is nothing for the eyes to hone in on" Yeah, except for the GIANT CRIMSON RED BAT INSIGNIA as his visor!

Yes but is it his eye slit? Is it an entire facial sequence? Is the bottom part of the red bat symbol coming down over where his mouth would be? Or are the peaks of the red wings going up above his head? Where is his face in proportion to that red insignia? I've seen anime armor types that would fit either shape, and you can't freaking tell with this design.

And seriously, if the only thing that you can make out as an identifying mark on the entire suit is a single, small piece of different coloration, on a huge, black amalgamation of angles and lines and pointy bits, is that a good thing? The only thing you can hone in on as you put it, is his face, everything else is an eye strain of extraneous bits and stuff that the Batman wouldn't freaking bother to have because they would be impractical in a fight.

I think at this point it's just an argument of "How well you can tell details apart". Did I think the design was over-the-top? You betcha however I didn't have any issues telling what was what for the most part.

 

[Strazdas]

Jim you are wrong about one thing - Square enix is not pushing for graphics. they try to make it as shiny and contrived as they can, but as far as graphic technology actually goes they are dragging behind.

their downfall is, as you say, overcomplocated wierdness. Square enix manages to be the worst company around without having bad PR like EA, and thats a feat to achieve.

 

[deadish]

Well, art is subjective ...

While not a fan of it, I don't really mind the overuse of belts and zipper. It's just the way their artists design stuff.

FFXIII sucked not because of the art, it sucked because the plot was a mess, the characters are so-so and the gameplay is poorly paced - which was not surprise given that it was rushed out the door after being stuck in development hell for so long.

Square Enix is a big company. It has many divisions working on multiple projects at once. You can't really paint the whole company with a single brush based on a few of its products.

Graphics are something all game companies have to keep on top of. Yes, Minecraft sold tons despite have horrible graphics, but Minecraft is an outlier. It's hard to get noticed among all the AAA releases if your game looks like crap - it will effectively be DOA.

Just about every major publisher is working on an engine, EA has Frostbite, Ubisoft has Snowdrop ... etc. It's common sense to have in-house engine tech that can be shared across projects, so your individual teams don't have to reinvent the wheel independently.

 

[AroLombardi]

See, I thought this was going to be about Lightning and how much like Batman she is (orphan, talks all raspy, tries to sound dark and edgy, comes off as very callous almost always, and tries to work alone or have a young sidekick).

Fair points nonetheless. I played the XIII sub-series and agree about XIII's clusterfuck of a story and the shallow, immemorable cast. But, and I am aware I may be biased, XIII-2 really felt like a gem in the sub-series. Admittedly, the story was still fairly over complex, but Noel... He is still a wonderful character in my opinion. The concept of "last human on earth" in as literal a sense as it was is still a fairly unseen or unexplored concept. And the way they made that relevant to his final fight with Cauis, the most evil shithead in the sub-series, was a pretty good connection (if you chose mercy I mean). I'm not a major fan of the Final Fantasy games, but when I beat XIII-2 I do remember actually spending another dozen hours post-game just to get all the best weapons and beating the most difficult optional bosses. And the Ezio outfit looked pretty great on Noel.

 

[Headbiter]

Well, art is subjective ...

Okay, I keep hearing that whenever a product in a creative field is brought up and quite frankly, it's starting to piss me off. Your personal APPRECIATION of art is subjective, yes. Not everyone likes the music of Michael Jackson, the movies by Stanley Kubrick or the written work of William Shakespeare. That is natural.
But here's the thing: While you personally might not find their work enjoyable, you can still comprehend the proficiency of their craftmanship. You can still hear how well composed the music of Michael, how well directed the movies by Stanley and how well-written the stories by William are, even if they're not accomodating to your personal preferences.

And that's the thing people on the web, in their over-tolerance, keep forgetting: art - in all shapes and forms - is still a craft. You can still fuck up. You can still produce utter shit, by objective standards. Or to put it more crass: There are, in fact, people on this planet, who enjoy - literally - to take other people's shit in their mouth. And while these people might genuinly enjoy that, it doesn't change the fact that their eating shit.

So yeah, art may "be subjective" but that subjectivity is NOT equivalent to a letter of indulgence.

Graphics are something all game companies have to keep on top of.

Nope, proovably wrong. That is maybe what people in the industry may spoonfeed themselves constantly but luckily we have decades of gaming history to debunk that myth. A game looking good is a plus, yes, but it is not necessary to create a good and/or succesful game. WarCraft 3: Looked cheap in comparison to the competition. WoW is behind his competition by miles in terms of graphics (although that gap got smaller in recent years). Deus Ex looked like utter shit, graphically, even for its time. Path of Exile falls of massively in comparison to other dungeon crawlers. Yet all these games run and make good money.

If anything, history has proven time and time again, that focusing too much on graphics can lead to quite a disappointment since you just reduced your game to a collection of pointless moving screenshots.

 

[Lugardo Sandoval]

You know Jim I fucken love the Final Fantasy series, I have loved them since FF1, But I can't defend this bullshit. I won't say I dislike some of the koo graphics, but it's the story that needs more love. And the game engine sucks, I really like having the chance to plot my next move and explore different places while being rewarded for doing so by getting more experience and loot. Yet all of this has been killed by the direction the series has decided to go. I am greatly disappointed and I have no will to try to cover up nor defend such crap. I can only hope they turn things around and stop this series of blunders.

 

[Sanderpower]

Well, art is subjective ...

Okay, I keep hearing that whenever a product in a creative field is brought up and quite frankly, it's starting to piss me off. Your personal APPRECIATION of art is subjective, yes. Not everyone likes the music of Michael Jackson, the movies by Stanley Kubrick or the written work of William Shakespeare. That is natural.
But here's the thing: While you personally might not find their work enjoyable, you can still comprehend the proficiency of their craftmanship. You can still hear how well composed the music of Michael, how well directed the movies by Stanley and how well-written the stories by William are, even if they're not accomodating to your personal preferences.

And that's the thing people on the web, in their over-tolerance, keep forgetting: art - in all shapes and forms - is still a craft. You can still fuck up. You can still produce utter shit, by objective standards. Or to put it more crass: There are, in fact, people on this planet, who enjoy - literally - to take other people's shit in their mouth. And while these people might genuinly enjoy that, it doesn't change the fact that their eating shit.

So yeah, art may "be subjective" but that subjectivity is NOT equivalent to a letter of indulgence.

Graphics are something all game companies have to keep on top of.

Nope, proovably wrong. That is maybe what people in the industry may spoonfeed themselves constantly but luckily we have decades of gaming history to debunk that myth. A game looking good is a plus, yes, but it is not necessary to create a good and/or succesful game. WarCraft 3: Looked cheap in comparison to the competition. WoW is behind his competition by miles in terms of graphics (although that gap got smaller in recent years). Deus Ex looked like utter shit, graphically, even for its time. Path of Exile falls of massively in comparison to other dungeon crawlers. Yet all these games run and make good money.

If anything, history has proven time and time again, that focusing too much on graphics can lead to quite a disappointment since you just reduced your game to a collection of pointless moving screenshots.

Art style in graphics is important. All the games you've mentioned have decent art STYLES. Art style is important to a game. If a game has a decent enough style, it can last for a long time. If a game has a bland art style but good graphics, it will quickly become outdated.

 

[Caostotale]

Every Final Fantasy game from VII onward has left me feeling more and more alienated, even the much-loved FF9, a game whose ugly and creepy style (i.e. 'furries and chibis' ≠ retro FF character sprites) seems to get a great big pass from fans because it didn't look as horrendous as FF8 or as overcooked as FF10. The series peaked with the bright and colorful FF5 and the beautifully-nuanced FF6. Since then, it's been on a complete nosedive.

FF15 looks like another ugly, over-embellished nightmare. I didn't bother with any of the XIII trilogy and won't be rushing out to check out that one either.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Square Enix's exaggerated eye for detail isn't something I hate... But Jim does have a point.

Detail is something that's supposed to be enjoyable when you spend a lot of time taking in those details. That Final Fantasy Batman makes a good poster because you can hang it up on a wall and spend days looking at all the details to admire the attention to detail.

... Games on the other hand don't give us the time to focus on detail, there's always something else to distract from it. Which makes the details hard to remember unless you've decided to pause the game just to stare at your character's costume for a while. So a lot of that detail goes to waste.

Having an eye for detail to such an extent is fine... But given the circumstances it would be more efficient to start with a simple overview first. Like maybe if Lightning was wearing JUST a White coat and pink Hair, that would be easier to handle; which is basically what I picture her wearing most the time anyways, give or take a shoulder guard.

... Which ironically just makes me think of Snow's design being just "white coat and Bandana".

Come to think of it... FFXIII and FFXIII-2 had okayish designs for memorability... But then Lightning returns happened and suddenly it looked... Messy.

 

[Sach]

Yeah, God forbid a company have a unique art style...

How dare they attempt to be innovative in it's gameplay?! I want rigid, turn based combat for the rest of my life forever!

 

[Yo Bo]

Right on the money. And the most hillarious episode to date, might I add xD

"..stop being so f'n Weeeirrd all the time."

 

[SweetShark]

I just LOVE the design of this Batman. Seeing this f*cker in an animated trailer for a Squre Enix X DC Crossover, I will be pleased.
And I think the Lighting and Sazh are the ONLY memorable characters in FF13.
But of course this is my opinion. After all I am one of the bad guy I like FF12.