Jimquisition: Booth Babes

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Blade1130

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Sep 25, 2011
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I'm sure someone's already said this, but I'm too lazy to check so I'll just throw it out there.

A good alternative to booth babes, would instead be cosplayers. You could have a cosplay of Bayonetta standing by her booth, and that would attract plenty of attention (some booths already do this). However this also works for guys, since a cosplay of Nathan Drake or Master Chief would get just about as much attention, so it isn't really sexist. You could obviously make the argument that Bayonetta is a hell of a lot more objectified, but that's more sexism in games and the character itself, rather than the booth babes, so it's a different issue entirely.

I know some booths already do this, just do more of it, and replace the booth babes with that, I'd much prefer cosplayers over booth babes.
 

GTwander

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Mar 26, 2008
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I couldn't have been more against his stance on the DoA topic, but am right on the same page with him here...

...so conflicted.


~I guess he just makes more sense when the topic lacks bias.
 

Mr.Mustacho

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Jan 14, 2011
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video game conventions are few and far between i doubt most booth babes get most of their income from them

and it's not like there is a lack of jobs for attractive people that are ok with showing themselves off


also i think there is a difference between sexy commercial cos-play and generic boot babes
 

vxicepickxv

Slayer of Bothan Spies
Sep 28, 2008
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Couldn't coordinating plans for "appropriate" attire for booth babes be done between via an intermediary between the publishers and the expo hosts?

The expo isn't going to freak out because there are under dressed women, the publishers still get their booth babes, and the women still get jobs. I believe this is the least terrible solution.
 

Jynthor

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Mar 30, 2012
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Andy Shandy said:
I must say I did expect the Booth Baby to end up like this.



But anyway, I didn't particularly care if they are there or not, but if it gives these girls jobs and they enjoy it, why not let them continue. Make them put on more clothes, and participate more in showing off the game besides perhaps just standing there (I assume that's what they do) but I don't see a huge need to get rid of them. And get Booth Bros as well if there's a potential gender issue as well.
Oh my god, Sammy is on fire!
I never expected to see a Grabowskis GIF on this site.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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May 14, 2008
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A pretty well thought out video, especially since it gives both sides to the argument. Rather depressingly all the best arguments seem to be ones that don't actualy provide a clear answer.

To all the people mentioning the idea of booth boys to balance out the booth babes, that's an opinion that I generally share. However, I don't think it really solves the particular problem Jim was talking about in this video since he was focusing on the argument over whether booth babes are a positive influence in general, rather than discussing it as an equality issue. So while I think the idea of booth hunks potentially solves the equality problem, I don't feel it confronts the issues mentioned in this video.

Sylveria said:
If you're uncomfortable around booth babes.. you need to get some help. Do you get uncomfortable when you have an unusually attractive waitress? Do you start dry humping the window display when you pass a Victoria's Secret? Should we start banning attractive women from other professions just to make sure no one's panties get bunched? How about the beach? I go to the shore every year and more often than not the beach-going females look better in their bikinis than I do and are 8-12 years younger. Should we start sectioning off parts of the world into relative attractiveness areas so no one gets upset when someone with a tighter ass or better abs walks by?

I dunno, maybe if we're getting uncomfortable around booth babes, we are the sexually repressed, perma-virgin stereotypes we've been getting labeled as for years.

And let's stop pretending that gaming is the only industry that has the "sex sell" gimmick. Booth babes and sex-based advertising are not new and nearly every other industry uses them. Acting offended by it when it's been around for decades is just silly.
Well apparently someone didn't listen to the bit about "Try to have more empathy for the other side" bit. I guess your feelings are just more important than other peoples.
 

bigfatcarp93

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Mar 26, 2012
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But... he didn't say "Thank god for me!"

I... I am lost and confused... I don't know what to do now... WHAT DO I THANK GOD FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!??????????
 

mrhateful

True Gamer
Apr 8, 2010
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I love that the mere sight of a half naked lady is now considered objectification, remember these ladies was hired to do the job. If your having trouble with this practice then blame it on the booth babes themself since taking it up with anyone else is acknowledging that those women are are stupid to understand your arguments and thus you are the person objectifying.
 

ResonanceSD

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Dec 14, 2009
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Why not hire women who actually know about the product they're meant to be selling me

misterprickly said:
So to sum up (without the use of a shovel) Jimmy don't like the ladies 'cause they make his bits tingle.
Did you watch the video?
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I find this kind of thing disturbing.

What people need to do is look back at the actual issues involved in female equality and feminism. It wasn't all that long ago where in the US and other enlightened countries there were wide scale demands that women pretty much be kept demure and respectable. A big part of the civil liberties revolution and such was women violating that taboo and coming out as being naked, sexty, etc. People seem not to "get" that the early Bond girls (James Bond movies), the work of Irvin Claw, and popularity of Betty Page, and others was all about liberation and freedom. Granted we were never as backwards as say Muslim culture in demanding women pretty much dress in tents all of the time to be almost totally concealed, but we were pretty much mandating exactly what this arguement was about and that women were expected to be conservatively dressed and portrayed.

The funny thing is that a lot of the people who are pretty much crusading for the end of things like booth babes, or explicit material featuring women, are ones claiming to embrace the ideals of freedom. Your pretty much seeing a lot of the same arguements being made that were made decades ago, with women being forced to conform conservatively in public, largely for their own protection and dignity. When you have conventions running around telling women to cover themselves for being too provocative, or people in general even saying that attractive women in revealing outfits shouldn't be around or are demeaning (to themselves if nothing else), I find it almost painfully funny that people don't understand the sheer irony here especially seeing as the people doing it nowadays tend to be politically correct liberals. It's one of the reasons why (as you might notice) I tend to have some left wing leanings, but stick more to the right wing, and have little or no respect for anyone who identifies as being part of the left wing exclusively.... liberals generally having no idea what they are even supposed to stand for. Right now the left wing seems to generally stand for the worst aspects of the right wing and societal oppression, albiet gussied up in it being for the "best interests" of those being targeted. Attacks on women being sexy or portrayed that way, attacks on free speech to protect people from the "wrong kinds" of speech like "hate speec" (which defeats the purpose of free speech to begin with)... and most just do not get it.


In a practical, non-political sense, women are not being forced into this. Nobody "owns" these women, even indirectly by controlling all of the property or money. As a result it's up to the women in question how they want to display themselves, and if they want to make a profession out of how they look. To be honest someone like a model, actress, centerfold, or even porn star is no differant than a professional athlete... someone who makes a living based on their innate gifts, having won the "genetic lottery" so to speak. It's like a Michael Jordan making a fortune playing pro-ball. Sure, looks fade, but so do things like athletic abillity, any inherant gift winds up having a "sell by" date. If you make a living entirely by your looks, yeah... eventually your not going to be able to do that anymore, just as eventually it will be a bad joke for a Pro-Boxer to step into the ring. It does vary with individuals both ways as well, someone like George Foreman was able to box well past his sell by date, and some women have managed to make a living off their looks well past the point where most models and such are forced to retire due to the sheer passage of time.

The funny thing is that most of the arguements seem to be made by jealous women who don't have these innate gifts. Those basically argueing that they are unhappy with the gorgeous babe making a living off of being attractive, because they can't do the same thing. It doesn't matter if your dealing with the beauty equivilent of an A-Rod (who would be someone like Cindy Crawford, Jenna Jameson, or Tyra Banks in their prime, having a huge career, appealing to the masses despite some negative opinions by individuals), or that of a minor league player (your typical Booth Babe, or model doing a mall opening or whatever). The basic arguement is based largely off of jealousy. To be honest most women don't seem to really care that much, but there is a vocal group of them, mainly because it gets attention (which leads us into issues like a certain infamous blogger who got herself attacked and couldn't cope with it).

To be honest a good booth babe or spokesmodel is going to get my attention initially. There is a little more to it that just looking good and the costume, there is a reason why people pay big bucks to go to modeling schools, and then sign up with agencies and such which are where such girls are hired from. It's subtle though, and would take some time to spell out the tecniques (I know a bit about it), suffice it to say that you can't just take any half way decent looking girl, pop her into the equivilent of a bikini, and expect it to work on a professional level, which is why Modeling agencies stay in business. In the end though this doesn't in of itself carry a product, especially seeing as most people are quite aware of the concept of a honey trap. It's also noteworthy that there are men hired to do the exact same thing, but they get less attention, and the techniques are similar but a bit differant.

This is one of those things where it's a non-issue created by those who simply want attention. There is no real problem with the portrayal of women in gaming, or in society in general, as anyone who actually pays attention and knows what's going on (starting with say the creative works of women themselves) can tell you. In reality even humoring "issues" like this is allowing yourself to be manipulated by attention seekers. On a lot of levels trying to "rescue" women from this kind of thing is a sexist manipulation based on the "female in trouble, must protect" reflex of men, combined with vulnerable segements like nerds who mistakenly believe that championing such causes might make them recpiants of more positive female attention.

-

Oh and while this is long, and I hadn't originally intended to say much about the techniques. One recurring thing you'll hear reported is how the "booth babes" seem bored and detached. That's intentional on a lot of levels, models train to seem kind of lifeless like statues at times and when to animate and not (so to speak). When working a more personal promotion the idea is to get people to want to approach them and "cheer them up" so to speak at which point they "animate" and act a lot more friendly, and typically gradually re-direct conversations towards whatever they represent this week. Likewise if they go pro-active, having seem relatively bored initially makes their interest seem more valuable to whomever they decide to direct it at. It's a common "grifting" (to use an archaic term) technique as well.

I think a lot of the "problem" that third parties see and report on is that not being the targets, they just don't get it. The Booth Babes aren't there for more than an initial draw from those who represent the gaming media, or are visitors. Those who product games, or represent services that are going to potentially buy units of the games for re-sale? That's
a little differant.

Modeling agencies like "Elite" and others hire out models (and by this we mean general ones, not nessicarly huge fashion models) becayse in general hiring their girls oftentimes winds up making the person picking them up more money than they wind up spending. Pay them say $10k for a couple of models (who might see 1k apiece for a few hours work) and if you wind up securing extra funding or moving 25,000 units of your product or cutting an earlier digital distribution agreement, due to them keeping interest on your product area, it's worth it.

When I worked casino security I've met/dealt with a decent number of models, when people rent convention/ball/conferance rooms and the like it's hardly uncommon for them to hire models, and want to have some security present for access control if nothing else. Like anyone else when done working models and such do tend to gravitate to other casino areas afterwards (instead of just going home). I've had plenty of oppertunity to talk business, they are generally even more cynical than I am being professional manipulators, and that's saying something.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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Gennadios said:
Booth Babes get hired through agencies, I'm pretty sure the gaming community hasn't heard from many of them is because they really don't care about gaming as a pastime.

It's a generalization of course. I'm sure there are attractive women out there that genuinely enjoy gaming. They'll always have a job at G4 though.
I'm not sure this is always entirely true. I used to rave a lot and I met a girl whose full time job was a dancer for Konami and she'd just go to events and do that.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Ok, now first of all, I'm not trying to make a straw-man here. But I do somewhat sympathize with women on the topic of booth babes just on the games themselves. The everyday hero of the hour is always a white male and I do get tired of the somewhat subversive message that our champions can only be of a certain melanin count and wavy hair. So, yeah, I get it. You can't say you're making games for everyone, objectify one parts of your demographic, then alienate another part.

But living in a world outside of video games, Both of my fields of income relies solely on attractiveness. Male and female. In fact, you won't be paid or have repeat business unless you are at least appealing. So it's bad to say, but I'm a little indifferent. It's a make or break society, and you have to use every asset you have. Beauty's somewhat easier to come by than intelligence*, so if you can use it, more power to you.

canadamus_prime said:
That's a good point, did anyone bother to actually ask the actually booth babes whether or not they had a problem with what they were doing or the whole idea in general? You know, instead of talking about them as you would the Michelangelo's David?
I don't think it's really about the women and their personal feelings on the matter. I think it's the vocal female demographic who don't really feel like having the message expressed to them that this genetic good fortune is more important than even the product we're selling, and we want you to come focus on them, and then spare some focus on us.




*Plastic surgery, make up, enhancing a certain body part, playing up fetishes... Eye of the beholder, after all.
 

DrDuckman

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Jun 25, 2012
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I think people have somewhat missed the point here. The issue isn't really that the booth babe ladies themselves are actually abused. That's patently untrue, they get payed for a modeling job like any other. Fairly well too, as far as I know.

Neither is it really that sexy ladies are somehow not welcome in conventions, and make people uncomfortable. If you are uncomfortable around sexy clad women, that seems like a personal self-image problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sexy cosplay, for example.

The problem is the practice of hiring an attractive person to sit there and act sexy to gather attention for a product that has nothing to do with sexyness. The practice insults the gaming consumer, who is treated as if he has the maturity of a horny teenager. It also suggest that the only place for women in the industry is to look sexy to attract the male gaze, not as developers or part of the industry.
This is not helped by the fact almost all the women that are present in these conventions from the industry are booth babes.

Remember, these women show nothing about the game. They dont act like the character to show you the theme of the game. They dont give you an idea of what's it about. They are not here as competent members of the game's industry, ready to promote their product and join in the enthusiasum of the upcoming game or gadget. They are simply eye candy.

They just sit there looking hot, in an attempt to manipulate consumers to evaluate their product based on their reaction to boobs. It's manipulative and dishonest, obviously not of the models themselves, but of their employers. The models themselves are just random women who are doing a job, and while I do agree that it's a shame that they might lose that source of income, I dont think it's a valid reason to support such practices.
 

Skoosh

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Jun 19, 2009
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I'd much prefer booth babes replaced with mascots or professional cosplayers, whatever you want to call it. If you want a character from the game there to look cool and draw people in, that's fine. I don't mind a talking hedgehog, Nathan Drake or even Lara Craft look-alike talking to people and taking pictures, it's like Disneyland! Now a lot of booths already do this, good for them. It's having someone in skimpy clothing with no (or little) connection to the actual game that bugs me. As Jim said, it makes a whole lot of people uncomfortable.

Not only that, it makes the industry look adolescent and less mature, and just plain distracts from the main point: the games. Unless the game is directly about a sexual character (e.g. Bayonetta), there shouldn't be a sexy girl in skimpy clothing out front. Games that happen to have sexy characters in skimpy clothes that aren't directly about sex (e.g. Dead or Alive or many other fighting games) is a whole other problem about games as a whole.

Booth Buffs doesn't fix the problem, as many people here are suggesting. The problem isn't so much sexism (although I won't deny it's an aspect), but sexualizing the nonsexual and making many uncomfortable. Adding some shirtless hunks to the bikini-clad babes only worsens it.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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I can't get behind telling these women to fuck off because a few people feel self-concious around them or that every guy is just thinking about how much they want to stick their dick in.

1) That's your problem, if you feel ugly then improve yourself.
2) Either the guy is always thinking about it anyway or they don't give a shit, the presence of booth babes changes nothing.

I'm not entirely certain how this falls into sexism other than they're there to pander to the dominant demographic, straight guys, which is just smart marketing and hardly sexist.
 

Skoosh

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Jun 19, 2009
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CrossLOPER said:
I'm sorry if pretty girls make you feel revolting or irritate your insecurities, but that is not their fault. I don't really care if these girls are there, but I do not think they should be banned or taken to the section where they hide away pretty girls.
I think you're mistaken. The problem isn't pretty girls. I'd hate to not be able to attend a gaming convention with my girlfriend. The problem is near-nude women payed to stand there in a bikini to sell a game about cars or whatever. They make many people uncomfortable because that's not the place for that. Softcore porn is fine, I don't care if they model elsewhere, but I'd like the gaming convention to be about, well, games. If a booth wants to pay someone to catch people's attention, I'd much prefer they had someone look like a pokemon or master chief, not just a pretty girl with a logo on her swimsuit.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Gotta say I fall in with those that would side with the arguments made in the 2nd half of the video.

A game comes out with an attractive female character. Knowing full well that showcasing said attractive female, the booth is left with two decisions:

1: Make a cardboard cut-out of the character to stand it next to your booth which I'd say objectified women on a very literal scale.

Or 2: Hire a model to dress up like their character, thus actually creating a job for weekend and giving perhaps up-and-coming models a chance to get noticed.

To get rid of the "necessity" for booth babes, you'd first have to get rid of attractive female characters in games in general. Without such eyecandy in the games, there'd be no attractive characters for the models to model, thus removing the need for booth babes all together.

And since I don't see that happening any time soon, I really can't see publishers shying away from the belief that "sex sells". I'm not necessarily saying it's right - just as a high school that gives out free condoms is condoning underage sex - but just like the high school being motivated by the knowledge of "Well we can tell them not to but everyone knows the horny high school teens are going to be banging anyways, at least we can encourage them to practice safe-sex", I believe the motivation for booth babes comes with the knowledge of "Well gaming companies are going to keep using sex to sell their product anyways, why not allow models to profit from it rather than having a bunch of unpaid cardboard cut-outs?"

On a side note, I find it interesting that a couple weeks ago, Jim did a video about the Dead or Alive girls being freakishly ugly due to their proportions, yet in this video he was using them to showcase the concept of "babes". :p

Captcha apparently doesn't like booth babes though: "never nude".
 

m19

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Jun 13, 2012
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Skoosh said:
The problem is near-nude women payed to stand there in a bikini to sell a game about cars or whatever. They make many people uncomfortable because that's not the place for that.
They make a tiny minority uncomfortable. Because simply put they wouldn't be there if it was more than that.

Same with selling games about cars in bikinis. If it didn't work they would not do it.
 

Katya Topolkaraeva

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Dec 9, 2010
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UuuuGH! i am sooo sick of the whole sexism in video game culture topic by now. Ok here's is what it boils down to. forcing developers to not have booth babes = censorship. same as forcing developers to not have sexy women in gaming, exc. Censorship is BAD. We do NOT want censorship. I can't believe Jim didn't even touch on this obvious issue. If women are uncomfortable because there are hotter women in the room, they have self esteem issues they need to deal with.

I do agree that more creativity would be nice though. But it should be the choice of the developer. Not forced down their throats.