NDAs are a symptom more than it is the problem in any sense. NDAs have their place, but their outcropping in gaming has come from the urge for secrecy. If not NDAs, it'd be some other form of control.Dr.Awkward said:
Jimquisition: Cloak and Dagger
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Wow Jim, you've never looked better.
OT: Most of us are fully aware game "journalists" are just paid bloggers that either regurgitate press releases, or editorialize with little effort to not just soapbox an opinion, but instead sell it to someone that might disagree.I guess I can't fault it given how even real news has gone that way in the 24/7 news cycle, and to be fair, digging for scoops takes resources hobby websites just don't have. A lax press wouldn't be an issue if companies didn't take advantage so much. They know they'll be called to account for what they've said, or anything they've botched, and like good lazy people, decided to control the conversation rather than explain a shitty product, unpopular business decision, or how reviewer never seem to find the game crippling bugs we find at the retail level.
At this point it's doing nothing but damage. So little solid has been out about systems coming out in weeks, so it's hard to not think they're a reason we don't know much, and track records tell us to expect problems out of the box. We've been burned too often by companies that think it's okay to screw us over that we've become the cynical, trust nothing, everything's going to suck, assholes we are, so yeah, we don't see opportunity in the next ge3n so much as a cash grab. And with this attitude, the more we're kept in the dark, the worse we think things will be.
OT: Most of us are fully aware game "journalists" are just paid bloggers that either regurgitate press releases, or editorialize with little effort to not just soapbox an opinion, but instead sell it to someone that might disagree.I guess I can't fault it given how even real news has gone that way in the 24/7 news cycle, and to be fair, digging for scoops takes resources hobby websites just don't have. A lax press wouldn't be an issue if companies didn't take advantage so much. They know they'll be called to account for what they've said, or anything they've botched, and like good lazy people, decided to control the conversation rather than explain a shitty product, unpopular business decision, or how reviewer never seem to find the game crippling bugs we find at the retail level.
At this point it's doing nothing but damage. So little solid has been out about systems coming out in weeks, so it's hard to not think they're a reason we don't know much, and track records tell us to expect problems out of the box. We've been burned too often by companies that think it's okay to screw us over that we've become the cynical, trust nothing, everything's going to suck, assholes we are, so yeah, we don't see opportunity in the next ge3n so much as a cash grab. And with this attitude, the more we're kept in the dark, the worse we think things will be.
This is ridiculous! RIDICULOUS!! Does he really think he can get away with this!
Fact 1: He is hiding his face! Nowhere in this video did I get any indication that that was really Jim Sterling!
Fact 2: All british people sound the same!
Fact 3: He has recently been talking with Total Bisquit!
This video isn't a Jim Sterling video, it was a Total Bisquit masquerading as Jim Sterling video! FACTS!
Fact 1: He is hiding his face! Nowhere in this video did I get any indication that that was really Jim Sterling!
Fact 2: All british people sound the same!
Fact 3: He has recently been talking with Total Bisquit!
This video isn't a Jim Sterling video, it was a Total Bisquit masquerading as Jim Sterling video! FACTS!
Lord Chungus, have pity! Please, we beg of you, find a way to do a Chunguscast with Jonathan (and maybe other too), even if it's just once a month.Jimothy Sterling said:
You're responsible for making the Shattered what they are and Jim help us if they go HUNGRY.
I wasn't planning to say anything, but since you mentioned it, I really didn't notice you were wearing a mask and it is an improvement and all that stuff.
Apart from that, I wanted to get in record that I think it was one of the best shows you've published so far. I wasn't a fan of the show when it started, but after you toned down the "holier than thou", "dial rage and indignation up to 11" approach, I admit it won me over.
You've had some good shows in the past, but this is one of the best. Very to the point and very insightful. I am part of the industry and this whole cloak and dagger thing myself and I must admit that I agree with the absurdity and surrealism of it all, not to mention it's pointlessness most times.
Apart from that, I wanted to get in record that I think it was one of the best shows you've published so far. I wasn't a fan of the show when it started, but after you toned down the "holier than thou", "dial rage and indignation up to 11" approach, I admit it won me over.
You've had some good shows in the past, but this is one of the best. Very to the point and very insightful. I am part of the industry and this whole cloak and dagger thing myself and I must admit that I agree with the absurdity and surrealism of it all, not to mention it's pointlessness most times.
The reason is obvious, these are tech companies and tech companies have long practiced industrial espionage in order to stay aheadd of the competition, and this has unfortunately affecte PR. Case in point is MS's XB1 launch, in which 50 ddifferent messages came out because of a lack of control of their message resulting from - of all things - too much control exerted from different people, and not giving one cohesive message for the people interviewed.
Leaving everyone to grasp at straws.
Imagine if MS started with "digital lending", i.e. family sharing.
Leaving everyone to grasp at straws.
Imagine if MS started with "digital lending", i.e. family sharing.
Really your leaving destructoid? Well i won,t really complain, i felt that you where unfair in your review of batman Arkham origin... Sure it's a flawed game and have many default, but it's still a fun game, and it's working (most of the time... it didnt deserve a 3... trought not much more than a 6. Honestelly it really felt like you where in a crusade there and you where picking up on that game more to make a point than because it was a bad game.Jimothy Sterling said:
And buggued game are sometimes great game anyway... look at Vampire the Mascarade Bloodlines
Jim,
I have to ask, as this is something you know that isn't common knowledge among game consumers: what parts of NDAs can be talked about by members of the gaming press that are not talked about? I'm not referring to the subjects that an NDA itself covers, but the discussion of the NDA itself.
Is the NDA itself something the gaming press can't discuss?
Does it prevent a gaming journalist like yourself maintaining a transparent and public archive of "companies who I have signed NDAs with", "dates these NDAs went into effect", and "all information from the NDA contract I am explicitly permitted to discuss" (admitably an archive that rather lean of facts), and a second archive detailing "companies I have had NDAs with, which have now expired", and "the full terms of the NDA".
Is there a real risk of any kind of chilling effect or blacklisting for anyone who'd criticise an NDA after it expired? Or for publishing the original draft of the NDA?
Because if there is no risk, its really the gaming presses job to take the first step towards getting rid of the excessive and pointless secrecy that the gaming industry has. Gaming journalism can exert a chilling effect on the needless privacy: does an otherwise unexceptional games publisher really want to only be described as "who are unremarkable, except for their consistent affection of NDAs", or other similar?
On the other hand, if this is a real risk then its topic needs to be discussed, because things will only go from bad to worse: what's stop it encouraging a wider culture of this bullshit in the industry, as companies with larger incomes and legal teams with NDA habits get copied by smaller companies looking to emulate their success and business model? As companies will already mimic everything in a competitors game to try and claim market share, it stands to reason they'd consider mimicking the underlying business model that supports the mimicked game's development.
So, does blacklisting happen, or is there a chilling effect preventing for discussion of game industry NDAs?
Maybe its paranoia or reading too many Shadowrun books but the discussion [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoDDh4kE0] of fairly recent takedown of TotalBiscuit's "WTF is Garry's Incident" video (back online again here, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjTa_x3rbJE], minus acknowledge of a few million views before takedown) has me wondering how much bullshit is happening that can't be discussed without consequences I'd never know about?
Also, love the fish mask, thought it was a Gyarados myself.
I have to ask, as this is something you know that isn't common knowledge among game consumers: what parts of NDAs can be talked about by members of the gaming press that are not talked about? I'm not referring to the subjects that an NDA itself covers, but the discussion of the NDA itself.
Is the NDA itself something the gaming press can't discuss?
Does it prevent a gaming journalist like yourself maintaining a transparent and public archive of "companies who I have signed NDAs with", "dates these NDAs went into effect", and "all information from the NDA contract I am explicitly permitted to discuss" (admitably an archive that rather lean of facts), and a second archive detailing "companies I have had NDAs with, which have now expired", and "the full terms of the NDA".
Is there a real risk of any kind of chilling effect or blacklisting for anyone who'd criticise an NDA after it expired? Or for publishing the original draft of the NDA?
Because if there is no risk, its really the gaming presses job to take the first step towards getting rid of the excessive and pointless secrecy that the gaming industry has. Gaming journalism can exert a chilling effect on the needless privacy: does an otherwise unexceptional games publisher really want to only be described as "who are unremarkable, except for their consistent affection of NDAs", or other similar?
On the other hand, if this is a real risk then its topic needs to be discussed, because things will only go from bad to worse: what's stop it encouraging a wider culture of this bullshit in the industry, as companies with larger incomes and legal teams with NDA habits get copied by smaller companies looking to emulate their success and business model? As companies will already mimic everything in a competitors game to try and claim market share, it stands to reason they'd consider mimicking the underlying business model that supports the mimicked game's development.
So, does blacklisting happen, or is there a chilling effect preventing for discussion of game industry NDAs?
Maybe its paranoia or reading too many Shadowrun books but the discussion [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfgoDDh4kE0] of fairly recent takedown of TotalBiscuit's "WTF is Garry's Incident" video (back online again here, [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjTa_x3rbJE], minus acknowledge of a few million views before takedown) has me wondering how much bullshit is happening that can't be discussed without consequences I'd never know about?
Also, love the fish mask, thought it was a Gyarados myself.
How did the game industry become such a, excuse me, clusterfuck? I mean, it hasn't always been like this,has it? Instead of being about games it's now about absurd marketing strategies and huge publicity events and dubious multimedia crossovers. I mean, just make good games and funtionel and affordable devices to play these games on. I'm not asking for anything more.
I don't care what publisher and developers hide or what "secrets" they make public.... although I would rather that they stopped telling us alot of stuff, because it's alot easier to make up stuff when there are no facts available. Besides, tall tales and lies are usually far more interesting than reality.
Did you know that EA sued one of their employees after he created a game for his 9 year old son? true story.
Did you know that EA sued one of their employees after he created a game for his 9 year old son? true story.
Why is he showing so much footage from Deus Ex: Human Revolution? I never felt like they were withholding behind the scenes materials and information.
Or is it more in what the game is about? Corporate secrecy? I guess that works.
Or is it more in what the game is about? Corporate secrecy? I guess that works.
I am going to have to step in here and set a few things straight.
The movie industry is anything but transparent about it's figures. Sure it reports them to the consumer and estimates are made but did you for example know that the Lord of the Rings trilogy is considered an absolute colossal flop that ended up costing New Line several billions of dollars? Despite all the movies being made for roughly 300 million dollars and making over 6 billions in sales?
Strange isn't it how transparency works before the accountants get to do their work? There is a giant behind the curtain Hollywood shell game going on with the financials. Where actors and right-holders are screwed out of their royalties by simply inflating the expenditures so there are no profits left even on a movie trilogy that made the same amount of money as a small nation.
The same for Babylon 5 and Warner Bros, where basically JMS was screwed out of royalties because the show made an 80 million dollar loss despite making a gigantic amount of money in total. By his own quote they would basically charge any costs made at any station across the world they had through to the Babylon 5's profit line so they could pay him no money at all.
Just because it appears transparent where we seem to know what comes in and what comes out doesn't mean the industry isn't filled with bottom feeding scumbags that hire other bottom feeding scumbags to cook the books.
The movie industry is anything but transparent about it's figures. Sure it reports them to the consumer and estimates are made but did you for example know that the Lord of the Rings trilogy is considered an absolute colossal flop that ended up costing New Line several billions of dollars? Despite all the movies being made for roughly 300 million dollars and making over 6 billions in sales?
Strange isn't it how transparency works before the accountants get to do their work? There is a giant behind the curtain Hollywood shell game going on with the financials. Where actors and right-holders are screwed out of their royalties by simply inflating the expenditures so there are no profits left even on a movie trilogy that made the same amount of money as a small nation.
The same for Babylon 5 and Warner Bros, where basically JMS was screwed out of royalties because the show made an 80 million dollar loss despite making a gigantic amount of money in total. By his own quote they would basically charge any costs made at any station across the world they had through to the Babylon 5's profit line so they could pay him no money at all.
Just because it appears transparent where we seem to know what comes in and what comes out doesn't mean the industry isn't filled with bottom feeding scumbags that hire other bottom feeding scumbags to cook the books.
Game industry is just going through it's high school years, EA and Ubisoft are the people who try and do everything, Activision is the self professed cool kid, Capcom is the school Douchebag, Valve is the nice kid in the corner, 2K are the sportos (Jocks, sportkids, what have you), Bethesda are the story tellers, so on so forth.canadamus_prime said:
Give em a few decades, and some GUIDING(<-----Key word here) criticism.
Calm down Jim that mask wasn't that bad.
It could be worse.
For example, you could do this episode without the mask.
ZING!!!
[I know, I know, I'm a fucking genius of comedy]
But back to the topic.
Watching at current fuss with next-gen consoles makes me glad that I am PC gamer
Now excuse me, I just upgraded my DeusEx:HR to Director's cut, so I must go- conspiracies wont unravel on their own...
It could be worse.
For example, you could do this episode without the mask.
ZING!!!
[I know, I know, I'm a fucking genius of comedy]
But back to the topic.
Watching at current fuss with next-gen consoles makes me glad that I am PC gamer
Now excuse me, I just upgraded my DeusEx:HR to Director's cut, so I must go- conspiracies wont unravel on their own...
Was...was that footage from Legendary? So I didn't dream that game up in a bout of adolescent fantasy. Man, what an unremarkable thing that turned out to be. Fantastic concept though.
very well said here. Openess and transparency is definitely a problem everywhere and even more so in gaming industry. The fact that they are allowed to hide their sales figures is ridiculous. Such things as how much copies the game sold should be public knowledge required by law to begin with.