Jimquisition: Diversity? LIEversity!

[sweetylnumb]

Cue the bunch of dudebros going "ITS NOT 40% LIES HERASY FARMVILLE NHEEEH"

Guys it actually doesn't actually matter if females only make up 20% of "real" gamers, that's still a big audience that ubisoft considers unworthy of appealing too. Economically, it just makes sense, nevermind the social issues. Assuming farmville players arn't gamers and can't be appealed to as well (which they tottaly can)

Also you really only need a voice actor and a female face no'one bloody cares if they dont have swaying hips and massive boobage and move like actual human beings as opposed to porn stars

k Thanks

 

[Ickorus]

Hold on a second, not acknowledging that anyone other than white males exist? Only appealing to that demographic? Did liberation, 1, freedom cry, and 3 stop existing?

Assassins creed is an incredibly diverse game series, it's disingenuous to try and paint that picture otherwise.

Yeah, about Liberation: Remember that black female zombiejoe said was playable? Well, he was completely correct. Which means they do have assets for fully playable female characters, and not very long ago it was perfectly within their power to do such a thing. So why is it a problem now? Did those assets suddenly stop existing? Did they fire the only female voice actor in the entire world?

As Aaron said, I don't think there is a real problem, just some pr guy coming out with a lame excuse when they should have just said they'd rather focus their efforts on more important parts of the game than a mute puppet for multiplayer use.

My issue with your comment (and the entirety of this latest outrage) is that people are acting like all Ubisoft have done is make white male characters and cater to that single audience when it is patently not true.

To clarify: Different avatars would be cool in my books, pr dude is dumb, honesty is best policy and overreaction and omission of facts for the sake of self righteous fury is bad.

 

[Something Amyss]

Oh, wow. In that case they are even bigger idiots than I thought. Sounds like hammering nails into their own coffins lol.

Well, even the Escapist gave AC: Unisex an award, so I doubt that's a coffin you hear being nailed.

 

[JimB]

Give me a strong female protagonist, character or sidekick that'll interest me, but don't throw in token women for the hell of it.

Why not?

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Why bother with excuses? You know what would have been a perfect response to this? "We didn't realize that there was so much demand for female characters, we made the wrong decision not to include them and we're looking into adding them in a future update". No, it's not as good as having them right off the bat, but you at least give your consumers the feeling that you care about what they want, and that you're recognizing their interests.

 

[Sticky]

Jim, I feel that you've failed to see the forest for the trees.

Representation isn't why you should be mad at Ubisoft over this. So who cares if they don't put in characters that are not 'representative' in their games? I don't want the burger king kids club in all of my games because companies are too petrified of not representing someone, somewhere. I think every story should be allowed to include the characterization they desire, regardless of gender or skin color.

That said, why you SHOULD be mad at Ubisoft extends far deeper than mere under-representation. You touched on it briefly and I was hoping you would talk about it a bit more. It's that in the year 2014 with the next-gen AC on the horizon, we're still reusing Ezio and Altair's movement patterns and models because Ubisoft thinks no one noticed. That no one noticed that there were 4 assassins that all moved the same way and somehow moved and stabbed the same way Ezio used to. Like somehow no one would notice that they were just flat-out lifting animations from him.

I know the counterpoint already, E3 demo, years away from release, etc. I guess, much like with Watch_Dogs, they'll eventually muster up the effort to cut a bunch of content and features from the E3 demo and call that the release version [http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=838538].

 

[BlumiereBleck]

It's France in 1790. Well of course you're not going to get a 'diverse group of people that are apparently super necessary for a game's story.'

Revolutionary France had alot of women take an active role in history. Besides there was an actual women who assassinated Marat, so that excuse doesn't really hold.

And we all remember how they all ended up.

Five bucks says you end up helping Robespierre only for him to betray you.

 

[Frission]

It's France in 1790. Well of course you're not going to get a 'diverse group of people that are apparently super necessary for a game's story.'

Revolutionary France had alot of women take an active role in history. Besides there was an actual women who assassinated Marat, so that excuse doesn't really hold.

And we all remember how they all ended up.

Five bucks says you end up helping Robespierre only for him to betray you.

It would be historically apropro. I would actually like that idea. It would show that the Assassin's ideals are not always for the best!

 

[BlumiereBleck]

It's France in 1790. Well of course you're not going to get a 'diverse group of people that are apparently super necessary for a game's story.'

Welcome to the thread, person who did not read the rest of the thread.

There have already been other posters who also know nothing about the French Revolution and also tried to pull out the "but women spent the entirety of the French Revolution underground or in the kitchen or something probably" excuse. They were corrected. For fun, try typing "French Revolution assassin" into Google.

Where you up in arms about the last 6 or so Assassin's Creed games too because there are female assassins throughout the time periods where those games took place in?

 

[BlumiereBleck]

It's France in 1790. Well of course you're not going to get a 'diverse group of people that are apparently super necessary for a game's story.'

Revolutionary France had alot of women take an active role in history. Besides there was an actual women who assassinated Marat, so that excuse doesn't really hold.

And we all remember how they all ended up.

Five bucks says you end up helping Robespierre only for him to betray you.

It would be historically apropro. I would actually like that idea. It would show that the Assassin's ideals are not always for the best!

I can see the dlc being "Help Napoleon" and stuff like that.

 

[Frission]

/snip

Napoleon is for wimps. Going full on terreur with Marat and Saint-Juste is where it's at!

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Why bother with excuses? You know what would have been a perfect response to this? "We didn't realize that there was so much demand for female characters, we made the wrong decision not to include them and we're looking into adding them in a future update". No, it's not as good as having them right off the bat, but you at least give your consumers the feeling that you care about what they want, and that you're recognizing their interests.

A company can't exactly "we made the wrong decision" so easily. Just "we may add them in a future update" would've been more than enough.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

/snip

Napoleon is for wimps. Going full on terreur with Marat and Saint-Juste is where it's at!

Moral dilemma in Ass Creed....

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

snake

Like, now I'm not sure if you're joking or not. The cardboard box was more interesting.

well... thats like... your opinion man

but i dont want male, female, white, black, hispanic, asian, gay and straight to exist simply to not offend anybody, is freakin' stupid in my opiniona dn it can end up affecting the quality of the characters in a game

Well, of course it's "not to offend," rather than to include, or appeal to. But I somehow bet that would be a problem, too.

Meanwhile, we get saddled with more shallow white dudes and the concern level just isn't equal. Can't help but wonder why.

More specifically, I'm not sure anyone's demanding a fully fleshed character. Just a MP avatar like they've had in the past. Makes me wonder why you protest so vocally.

for me "not to offend" and "to appeal" seem interchangeable 90% of the time, maybe because people defending these kind of movements often act extremely offended

for me, an uninteresting black character is no different from an uninteresting white character, i dont want uninteresting characters, and i feel inclusion for the sake of inclusion can give birth to some very uninteresting characters


i didnt protest vocally in this instance in particular, if you read my post, you can see i said ubisoft's reasoning is complete bullshit, im talking in general terms, if the inclusion of female and racially diverse characters makes sense sure, add em, and hell in this particular case i think black/asian/hispanic characters might not make much sense, since we are talking 18th century france, and a black assasin might stick out like a sore thumb

 

[daxterx2005]

I remember when Nintendo said Peach couldnt be playable in the New Super Mario Bros. series because "It would take to much time and money to properly code her hair and dress physics"......then they go and put her in Super Mario 3D world...

Back peddling at its finest.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Ubisoft's admitting their own incompetence with the excuses as to why they cut women from AC:U, and FC4. They didn't budget properly to say the least.

And it occurs to me that they cut women, out of everything. Kinda screams where female characters lay in terms of priority, doesn't it?

If it weren't for Liberation, and Child of Light, I'd be far more cheesed off at them than I am.

 

[Dradeeus]

I have nothing to add to what the video was about, other than, since you added that last "disclaimer" at the end, I wanted to say I DO like your social justice videos. Even if I don't agree with everything you say, I'm glad you're saying it. I don't think you are, but I don't want you to feel outnumbered or bullied by glass-fragile people who don't want you approaching certain topics.

Though I do love your industry videos as well, of course.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

What really confuses me about it, is that they have a Woman Protagonist in an Assassin Creed game, in Liberation. So they have the animations in the code of their Assassin's engine, and a voice actress's phone number. This also doesn't explain why they couldn't get a playable character with a different color of skin.

As valve noted when it was making TF2, the silhouette is the most important thing to differentiate between characters. At a glance, you want to be able to instantly tell who I am shooting at, and in third person game who I am currently playing. If any of the Four Assassins are different at all in gameplay (and if they aren't, why have four Assassins?) having different colors of cloaks and different beards doesn't really cut it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The only point I'm going to be a stickler about is that the market -is- allowed to vote with its wallet.
Because the market isn't just Ubisoft. Jim, your own counter examples against Ubisoft's claim proves as such.

It's just that the market isn't voting along your lines. At least, not where Ubisoft's titles are concerned.

As for why Ubisoft feels the need to publicly lie about not creating a female protagonist, I have no idea.
I don't believe they should be required to provide a female protagonist as an option, but at the same time that doesn't justify or even logically fit the reasons they did provide.

This is one of those cases where sexism is an uncomfortably plausible possibility.
And I'm sure someone considered replying with the old chestnut "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity"

Stupidity is a given already, but it's a stupidity stemming from deeper issue within the company.
This isn't the first time Ubisoft has engaged this subject publicly.

 

[Metalrocks]

had an little argument about it on the TR forum as well (we have a topic were we can talk about anything). some want to tell us that we shoulndt take it too seriously since its just a game and you play anyway just one character just in different colors.
they agreed thought ubis excuse is full of bull but people shoulndt take it too seriously.

i personally dont like ubis responds to it and im glad that people do cry out about it. because it is full of bull that a AAA cant take the time to create a female character.